[Yasmin_discussions] Oral Traditions and the Digital Arts

Roger asks the question about how to respond to my proposed topic on
traditional ways of passing down information.

Is science always separate from story telling in general? is there
an overlap in what is important to communicate?

s history (as in describing the past) always recorded/communicated in
the same form as science?

Is there an overlap in research?

Do all cultures approach the field differently?

In the current methods of Anthropology, for example, the
documentation of cultural practice and communication of memories is
treated as a science, even when it is applied to contemporary
societies. (not my field, so it would be nice to know more here).

We take our own cultures for granted, so observations from other
cultures would be welcome.

Cynthia Beth Rubin
http://CBRubin.net

On May 2, 2009, at 8:28 AM, roger malina wrote:

> PS from roger: we should try to respond to this in the context
> of the arts and new technologies or art and science since this
> is the focus of YASMIN

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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Oral Traditions and the Digital Arts

Sorry for double posting , the prvious commes from the wrong adress, id raher have soundplots and iv cleaned up a few typos, if possible use this

Greetings yasminers
concwerning traditions, oral and otherwise
i would like yo make a few points,
first traditions are contemporary inventions produced and reproduced to consolidate an (invented) idea about the past , this was brilliantly described and studied by J Huizinga some 30y ago in "inventing tradition" of course there are a few beautuful freedom enhancing traditions, one would like to suppose, but unfortunately in many cases they are forms of violence and control either towards groups in the socitey (traditionally women etc) or other groups "outside"
some months ago i read a great quotation from an author in america in the 30`s who had landed there from the turmoil in europe (Droth i think was his name) he said "a nation is a group of people who share a confusion about their ancestors and an athipathy to their neighbours´, true.

this is not to say that there can be no enjoyment with this, and of course many traditional elements, procedures, events, songs and stories can be beautiful and moving, (specially with good food AND enough drinks)

Thus i do think artist have a very interesting and relevant role now and in the past in reproducing tradition, this can be done by reproducing forms of domination exclusion and prejudice or done with a critical and constructive aim bringing about new futures resulting fro an informed and critical relation to the past rather than reenacting false and often toxic images of the past

Then another point , here concerning orality i think is very interesting there is a widespread implicit and explicit undestanding among many in our part of the world that culture and knowledge mean writting and that is clearly a big mistake in my view, many people in cultures in history and arround the world have produced knowedge and functional social structres without much or any writting. Thus orality has now and in the past a very central role in building things, abstract and material , songs, cities, roads and well languages, most of which have existed for long periods wirhout writting or with a very very minimal writting

so how can artists engage today with orality and help using the past to reinvent the futue rather than using it as an excuse to reproduce prejudice and domination.

and finally on a theoretical line it might be interesting to think about current and past combinations of orality with hard stuff, eg now with digital voices , or radiotransmissions , also in older times as with the beautiful example in ancient Peru where songs were passed on and these songs could be used by a group of weavers working together each on her loom to produce certain colour patterns in the textile (now comes the yellow and then the blue..)
or in india where there is a tradition of long songs that are meorized and are in fact lists of ailments and the corresponding solutions or remedies

have a good day,
r

--- On Sat, 5/2/09, roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> From: roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>
> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] Oral Traditions and the Digital Arts
> To: "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS" <Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:28 AM
> In response to our call for
> discussion topics, one per week
> in May, Cynthia Rubin sends us this question
>
> Hi Yasminers
>
> I have been thinking (as  you know) about how we
> remember from
> generation to generation, and what knowledge different
> cultures value
>
> In Senegal, there is the tradition of Griots who tell
> ancestors
> Oral Tradition, emphasis on ancestors as identity
>
> In the Jewish tradition we just had Passover (Pesach),
> where we tell
> the story of the liberation from slavery in Egypt
> Written Tradition, emphasis on collective shared history,
> as lesson
> for present and future
>
> Since YASMIN is cross-cultural, I would like to hear about
> other
> traditions and the how artists feel that these traditions
> influence
> their ways of thinking in general, and then how it affects
> art
> making, if at all.
>
> Cynthia Rubin
>
> PS from roger: we should try to respond to this in the
> context
> of the arts and new technologies or art and science since
> this
> is the focus of YASMIN
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
> subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"),
> enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found
> further down the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way
> down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter
> password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the
> page that will appear ("options page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page,
> find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or
> off.
>

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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Oral Traditions and the Digital Arts

Greetings yasminers
concwerning traditions, oral and otherwise
i would like yo make a few points,
first traditions are contemporary inventions produced and reproduced to consolidate an (invented) idea about the past , this was brilliantly described and studied by J Huizinga some 30y ago in "inventing tradition" of course there are a few beautuful freedom enhancing traditions, one would like to suppose, but unfortunately in many cases they are forms of violene and control either towards groups in the socitey (traditionally women etc) or other groups "outside"
some months ago i read a great quotation from an author in america in the 30`s who had landed there from the turmoil in europe (Droth i think was his name) he said "a nation is a group of people who share a confusion about their ancestors and an athipathy to their neighbours´, true.

this is not to say that there can be no enjoyment with this, and of course many traditional elements, procedures, events, songs and stories can be beautiful and moving, (specially with good food AND dirnks)

Thus i do think artist have a very interesting and relevant role now and in the past in reproducing tradition, this can be done ny reproducing forms of domination exclusion and prejudice or done with a critical and constructive aim bringing about new futures resulting fro an informed and critical relation to the past rather than reenacting false and often toxic images of the pasr

Then another point , here concerning orality i think is very interesting there is a widespread implicit and explicit undestanding among many in our part of the world that culture and knowledge mean writting and that is clearly a big mistake in my view, many people in cultures in history and arround the world have produced knowedge and functional social strucutres without much or any writting. Thus orality has now and in the past a very central role in building things, abstract and material , songs, cities, roads and well languages, most of whch have existed for long periods wirhout writting or with a very very minimal writting

so how can artists engage today with orality and help using the past to reinvent the futue rather than using it as an excuse to reproduce prejudice and domination.

and finally on a theoretical line it might be interesting to think about current and past combinations of orality with hard stuff, eg now with digital voices , or radiotransmissions , also in older times as with the beautiful example in ancient Peru where songs where passed on and these songs could be used by a goup of weavers working ogether each on her loom to produce certain colour patterns in the textile (now comes the yellow and then the blue..)
or in india where there is a tradition of long songs that are meorized and are in fact lists of ailments and the corresponding solutions or remedies

have a good day,
r
--- On Sat, 5/2/09, roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> From: roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>
> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] Oral Traditions and the Digital Arts
> To: "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS" <Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:28 AM
> In response to our call for
> discussion topics, one per week
> in May, Cynthia Rubin sends us this question
>
> Hi Yasminers
>
> I have been thinking (as  you know) about how we
> remember from
> generation to generation, and what knowledge different
> cultures value
>
> In Senegal, there is the tradition of Griots who tell
> ancestors
> Oral Tradition, emphasis on ancestors as identity
>
> In the Jewish tradition we just had Passover (Pesach),
> where we tell
> the story of the liberation from slavery in Egypt
> Written Tradition, emphasis on collective shared history,
> as lesson
> for present and future
>
> Since YASMIN is cross-cultural, I would like to hear about
> other
> traditions and the how artists feel that these traditions
> influence
> their ways of thinking in general, and then how it affects
> art
> making, if at all.
>
> Cynthia Rubin
>
> PS from roger: we should try to respond to this in the
> context
> of the arts and new technologies or art and science since
> this
> is the focus of YASMIN
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
> subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"),
> enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found
> further down the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way
> down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter
> password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the
> page that will appear ("options page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page,
> find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or
> off.
>

_______________________________________________
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[Yasmin_announcements] Leonardo Abstracts Database deadline June 30 2009

LABS Call for Submissions

http://leonardolabs.pomona.edu/

Leonardo Abstracts Service (LABS), consisting of the English-language,
Spanish-language,
Chinese-language and French-language databases, is a comprehensive
collection of Ph.D.,
Masters' and MFA thesis abstracts on topics at the intersection of
art, science and technology.

Postgraduate students whose theses investigate philosophical,
historical or critical applications
of science or technology to the arts (visual, sound, performance,
text), computer sciences, the
sciences and/or technology are invited to submit abstracts of their
theses for consideration.

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[Yasmin_discussions] Oral Traditions and the Digital Arts

In response to our call for discussion topics, one per week
in May, Cynthia Rubin sends us this question

Hi Yasminers

I have been thinking (as you know) about how we remember from
generation to generation, and what knowledge different cultures value

In Senegal, there is the tradition of Griots who tell ancestors
Oral Tradition, emphasis on ancestors as identity

In the Jewish tradition we just had Passover (Pesach), where we tell
the story of the liberation from slavery in Egypt
Written Tradition, emphasis on collective shared history, as lesson
for present and future

Since YASMIN is cross-cultural, I would like to hear about other
traditions and the how artists feel that these traditions influence
their ways of thinking in general, and then how it affects art
making, if at all.

Cynthia Rubin

PS from roger: we should try to respond to this in the context
of the arts and new technologies or art and science since this
is the focus of YASMIN
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.

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HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

[Yasmin_discussions] topic a week

Yasminers

As mentioned earlier we dont have any pre organised discussion topic for
this month of May. Maybe we could have a quick discussion topic per week.
If any one would like to lead a one week long discussion on a topic dear to
their heart =drop an email to rmalina@prontomail.com

Roger
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[Yasmin_announcements] Fwd: Leonardo Vol. 42, No. 3, June 2009 is now available online

Leonardo
Volume 42, Issue 3 - June 2009
________________________________

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Editorial

 Intimate Science and Hard Humanities
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 184-184.
Citation | PDF (34 KB) | PDF Plus (35 KB)

Artist's Article

 Midas: A Nanotechnological Exploration of Touch
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 186-192.
Abstract | PDF (4949 KB) | PDF Plus (607 KB)

Special Section: Creativity and Cognition 2007 Conference Papers

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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 194-196.
Citation | PDF (64 KB) | PDF Plus (65 KB)

 Emerging Materiality: Reflections on Creative Use of Software in
Electronic Music Composition
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 197-202.
Abstract | PDF (1364 KB) | PDF Plus (277 KB)

Color Plates

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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 203-209.
Citation | PDF (18890 KB) | PDF Plus (793 KB)

Special Section: Creativity and Cognition 2007 Conference Papers

 Educating the New Makers: Cross-Disciplinary Creativity
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 210-215.
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 Trivet Fields: The Materiality of Interaction in Architectural Space
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 216-224.
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 Body Matters: The Palpability of Invisible Computing
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 225-230.
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 Materiality, Memory and Imagination: Using Empathy to Research Creativity
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 231-237.
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General Articles

 Entomogenic Climate Change: Insect Bioacoustics and Future Forest Ecology
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 239-244.
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 M.A.D.: Media Art Database(s) and the Challenges of Taste, Evaluation
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 245-250.
Abstract | PDF (116 KB) | PDF Plus (117 KB)

 Musical Compost, Consorts and Collapsing Pyramids: On the
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 252-258.
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Theoretical Perspective

 From Sfumato to Transarchitectures and Osmose: Leonardo da Vinci's
Virtual Reality
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 259-264.
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Special Section: ArtScience: The Essential Connection

 Howard Florey: Photographer, Cinematographer and Sunday Painter
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 265-265.
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Leonardo ReviewsEXHIBITION

 Synesthesia: Art and the Mind 18 September–20 December 2008, The
McMaster Museum of Art (in collaboration with the Department of
Psychology, Neuroscience & Behavior, McMaster University, Hamilton,
Ontario, and the 7th Annual Meeting of the American Synesthesia
Association [ASA])
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 267-269.
Citation | PDF (4010 KB) | PDF Plus (275 KB)

Leonardo ReviewsBooks

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Lippit. Minnesota University Press, Minneapolis, MN, U.S.A., 2008. 296
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 269-270.
Citation | PDF (4010 KB) | PDF Plus (275 KB)

 Artscience: Creativity in the Post-Google Generation by David
Edwards. Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA, U.S.A., 2008. 194
pp. Trade. ISBN: 9-780-67402625-4
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 270-272.
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 Modern Architecture: Being the Kahn Lectures for 1930 by Frank Lloyd
Wright, with a new introduction by Neil Levine. Princeton University
Press, Princeton and Oxford, U.S.A./U.K., 2008. 176 pp., illus. Trade.
ISBN 13: 978-0-691-12937-2
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 272-273.
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 Informal Architectures by Anthony Kiendl. Black Dog Publishing,
London, U.K., 2008. 240 pp. Trade. ISBN: 978-1-906155-33-9
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Roberta Panzanelli. Getty Publications, Los Angeles, CA, U.S.A., 2008.
352 pp., illus. Trade. ISBN: 978-0-89236-877-8
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 Leonardo June 2009, Vol. 42, No. 3: 274-274.
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 Two Bits: The Cultural Significance of Free Software by Christopher
M. Kelty. Duke University Press, Durham and London, U.S.A./U.K., 2008.
400 pp., illus. Trade, paper. ISBN: 0-8223-0-8223; 0-8223-0-8223
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 Dying and Death: Inter-Disciplinary Perspectives by Asa Kasher, ed.
Rodopi Press, Amsterdam/New York, 2007, 217 pp. Paper. ISBN:
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 French Colonial Documentary: Mythologies of Humanitarianism by Peter
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Transactions

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 Cosmic Revelation
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Leonardo Network News

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