Hallo Yasminers,
I am really unsure about the tenability of the distinction between
science and art
The fact is that at their best both are creative producers of knowledge
We could call it the scientific arts or the art of science
but i suppose the language itself is flawed and misleading
Of course in "the one self-evident world" what we call science has a
strong grasp on another tentative and precarious term "the real",
however, in the multiplicitous world of difference, that which makes
life interesting - to quote a lecture from 1922 by Tristan Tzara - the
distinctively named Art seems to hold more sway -
The question however is more precarious and relevant when one becomes
more concentrated on the role of industry and finance -
Here in Germany on the weekend, on the cover of Die Zeit, or The Times,
There was an image of two rabbits - One mounting the other -
The one doing the mounting was labelled Industrie and the other,
taking it - as it were - was labelled Wissenschaft - loosely
translated Science, but more like knowledge production. ( All Fields
are so precise and concise here that they are labelled, for example
Theatre Wissenschaft, etc in the Universities)
So the better question might be about how hegemonic and conservative
industry and finance hold back the creative in both the sciences and
the arts, to the point of planned obsolescence, or outright stagnation
- though that is not formed into a question - i hope it makes some
sense to some of us.
Thanks for your time.
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 7:38 PM, roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> forwarded from the linked in discussion
>
> DOES ART SCIENCE COLLABORATION CONTRIBUTE IN ANY WAY TO SUCCESSFUL...
>
> I am a medical and biological illustrator, my job is to make the
> complexities of science and medicine understandable and approachable
> on a visual level. I have found that many scientist have very good
> visualization skills and our collaboration results in teaching devices
> which can teach other scientists and the lay person. In a country
> where the general population is often scientifically ignorant I find
> that this collaboration to be almost a civic duty. It is also fun and
> provides a continuous learning experience for me. I get to be an
> artist and a bit of a science dilettante in that I don't have to go
> through the statistical analysis of the research.
> By William Hamilton
>
> Richard Wong • I am an artist about to launch a project on "endangered
> species". I am and will be working with specialists in collaboration
> to raise awareness through community/public outreach, engagement and
> dialogue...all through the medium of art.
>
> Through my experience from an artist's eyes, this collaboration works
> very well. Art can be an effective medium to communicate important
> societal messages, especially if the purpose is to educate and raise
> awareness. Scientific research/work adds to the body of knowledge, and
> we artists working closely can access and use this body of knowledge
> to communicate generally or specifically.
>
> Would like to hear directly from those wanting to work closely with me
> on endangered species art.
>
> Richard
> http://richardwongwatercolors.ca
>
> claudia volders • Dear Roger
> First of all:
> As an artist I have the opportunity to work together in projects with
> scientists, which results in a grown for both of us. It is a way of
> synergy!
> As an artist I don't pretent that I have the knowlegde of a scientist,
> but a scientist is much more than knowlegde! It is passioned person,
> hard working talent! And this side of the scientist has been reduced
> to a very low point now. There is now money, no time enough to balance
> out between the knowlegde and passion.
> What I do as an artist is to increase passion and out-of-the-box
> thinking. And yes, this seems not important, but it is a way to
> successful scientific practice.
> Please look at more at:
> http://www.zenderdna.nl/index.php/en/what-is-zenderdna.html
> http://www.claudiavolders.nl/index.php/en/art-coaching/for-scientists
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
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--
~ www.jolthomson.ca ~
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Tuesday, August 6, 2013
[Yasmin_discussions] DOES ART SCIENCE COLLABORATION CONTRIBUTE IN ANY WAY TO SUCCESSFUL SCIENTIFIC PRODUCTION
DOES ART SCIENCE COLLABORATION CONTRIBUTE IN ANY WAY TO SUCCESSFUL...
In collaborations with scientists, I have often found, as an artist,
that it is difficult from the outset to convince them of the value of
art practice and theory. I agree with the papers quoted by Roger.
There is real asymmetry. I think that this in part arises because most
scientists operate in very a different academic, institutional and
financial environment from most artists. That may well be okay, but it
also means that artists will most likely never come to nourish
scientific research.
By Kevin McCourt
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In collaborations with scientists, I have often found, as an artist,
that it is difficult from the outset to convince them of the value of
art practice and theory. I agree with the papers quoted by Roger.
There is real asymmetry. I think that this in part arises because most
scientists operate in very a different academic, institutional and
financial environment from most artists. That may well be okay, but it
also means that artists will most likely never come to nourish
scientific research.
By Kevin McCourt
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[Yasmin_discussions] DOES ART SCIENCE COLLABORATION CONTRIBUTE IN ANY WAY TO SUCCESSFUL SCIENTIFIC PRACTICE ?
From
Liliane Lijn • Hi Roger
I have been asking that question for some time. It would be very
interesting to see whether scientists
may experience some benefit to their practice from collaboration with
an artist or artists.
There seem to be more artists than scientists in this dialogue or am I
mistaken?
best
Liliane
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Liliane Lijn • Hi Roger
I have been asking that question for some time. It would be very
interesting to see whether scientists
may experience some benefit to their practice from collaboration with
an artist or artists.
There seem to be more artists than scientists in this dialogue or am I
mistaken?
best
Liliane
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[Yasmin_discussions] DOES ART SCIENCE COLLABORATION CONTRIBUTE IN ANY WAY TO SUCCESSFUL SCIENTIFI PRACTICE
forwarded from the linked in discussion
DOES ART SCIENCE COLLABORATION CONTRIBUTE IN ANY WAY TO SUCCESSFUL...
I am a medical and biological illustrator, my job is to make the
complexities of science and medicine understandable and approachable
on a visual level. I have found that many scientist have very good
visualization skills and our collaboration results in teaching devices
which can teach other scientists and the lay person. In a country
where the general population is often scientifically ignorant I find
that this collaboration to be almost a civic duty. It is also fun and
provides a continuous learning experience for me. I get to be an
artist and a bit of a science dilettante in that I don't have to go
through the statistical analysis of the research.
By William Hamilton
Richard Wong • I am an artist about to launch a project on "endangered
species". I am and will be working with specialists in collaboration
to raise awareness through community/public outreach, engagement and
dialogue...all through the medium of art.
Through my experience from an artist's eyes, this collaboration works
very well. Art can be an effective medium to communicate important
societal messages, especially if the purpose is to educate and raise
awareness. Scientific research/work adds to the body of knowledge, and
we artists working closely can access and use this body of knowledge
to communicate generally or specifically.
Would like to hear directly from those wanting to work closely with me
on endangered species art.
Richard
http://richardwongwatercolors.ca
claudia volders • Dear Roger
First of all:
As an artist I have the opportunity to work together in projects with
scientists, which results in a grown for both of us. It is a way of
synergy!
As an artist I don't pretent that I have the knowlegde of a scientist,
but a scientist is much more than knowlegde! It is passioned person,
hard working talent! And this side of the scientist has been reduced
to a very low point now. There is now money, no time enough to balance
out between the knowlegde and passion.
What I do as an artist is to increase passion and out-of-the-box
thinking. And yes, this seems not important, but it is a way to
successful scientific practice.
Please look at more at:
http://www.zenderdna.nl/index.php/en/what-is-zenderdna.html
http://www.claudiavolders.nl/index.php/en/art-coaching/for-scientists
_______________________________________________
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Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
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HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
DOES ART SCIENCE COLLABORATION CONTRIBUTE IN ANY WAY TO SUCCESSFUL...
I am a medical and biological illustrator, my job is to make the
complexities of science and medicine understandable and approachable
on a visual level. I have found that many scientist have very good
visualization skills and our collaboration results in teaching devices
which can teach other scientists and the lay person. In a country
where the general population is often scientifically ignorant I find
that this collaboration to be almost a civic duty. It is also fun and
provides a continuous learning experience for me. I get to be an
artist and a bit of a science dilettante in that I don't have to go
through the statistical analysis of the research.
By William Hamilton
Richard Wong • I am an artist about to launch a project on "endangered
species". I am and will be working with specialists in collaboration
to raise awareness through community/public outreach, engagement and
dialogue...all through the medium of art.
Through my experience from an artist's eyes, this collaboration works
very well. Art can be an effective medium to communicate important
societal messages, especially if the purpose is to educate and raise
awareness. Scientific research/work adds to the body of knowledge, and
we artists working closely can access and use this body of knowledge
to communicate generally or specifically.
Would like to hear directly from those wanting to work closely with me
on endangered species art.
Richard
http://richardwongwatercolors.ca
claudia volders • Dear Roger
First of all:
As an artist I have the opportunity to work together in projects with
scientists, which results in a grown for both of us. It is a way of
synergy!
As an artist I don't pretent that I have the knowlegde of a scientist,
but a scientist is much more than knowlegde! It is passioned person,
hard working talent! And this side of the scientist has been reduced
to a very low point now. There is now money, no time enough to balance
out between the knowlegde and passion.
What I do as an artist is to increase passion and out-of-the-box
thinking. And yes, this seems not important, but it is a way to
successful scientific practice.
Please look at more at:
http://www.zenderdna.nl/index.php/en/what-is-zenderdna.html
http://www.claudiavolders.nl/index.php/en/art-coaching/for-scientists
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Monday, July 29, 2013
[Yasmin_discussions] impact of the arts on science practice
Hi Roger
I have not yet come across a scientist or engineer who would admit in
writing the influence of art on his or her work, except now by Dr
Marrin; and that is why I was interested in contacting him. However
the following information may interest you.
I studied physics and mathematics before graduating in civil
engineering from University of Karachi in 1962; but then changed to
art. Although I tried to escape from engineering, it has greatly
influenced my art; some of the ideas of which then emerged,
subsequently, in the work of both architects and scientists,
independently of what I had done. Here are two examples:
1) During 1965-68, I produced a body of sculptures whose symmetrical
structure was taken from the lattice structure of engineering (the
kind you see in the cranes used for building works). Besides these
works being pioneering works of Minimalism (as acknowledged by the
Tate in 2007), they were the first attempt to infuse aesthetics into
the functionality of lattice structure; and in fact this aestheticism
of what were before only functional structures was picked up
architects about ten years later (such as in the design of Pompidou
Centre in Paris), and now architects all over the world use these
structures aesthetically in their work.
2) In 1968, I proposed that the symmetrical structure of my work Zero
to Infinity should be broken by public participation, resulting into
their continuous transformation leading to infinity. A similar
phenomenon of "breaking symmetry" was discovered by some physicists in
the nineties for which they were awarded Nobel Prize in 2008.
My point is that same or similar ideas can emerge from different
disciplines more or less during the same time.
Best wishes
Rasheed Areen
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HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
I have not yet come across a scientist or engineer who would admit in
writing the influence of art on his or her work, except now by Dr
Marrin; and that is why I was interested in contacting him. However
the following information may interest you.
I studied physics and mathematics before graduating in civil
engineering from University of Karachi in 1962; but then changed to
art. Although I tried to escape from engineering, it has greatly
influenced my art; some of the ideas of which then emerged,
subsequently, in the work of both architects and scientists,
independently of what I had done. Here are two examples:
1) During 1965-68, I produced a body of sculptures whose symmetrical
structure was taken from the lattice structure of engineering (the
kind you see in the cranes used for building works). Besides these
works being pioneering works of Minimalism (as acknowledged by the
Tate in 2007), they were the first attempt to infuse aesthetics into
the functionality of lattice structure; and in fact this aestheticism
of what were before only functional structures was picked up
architects about ten years later (such as in the design of Pompidou
Centre in Paris), and now architects all over the world use these
structures aesthetically in their work.
2) In 1968, I proposed that the symmetrical structure of my work Zero
to Infinity should be broken by public participation, resulting into
their continuous transformation leading to infinity. A similar
phenomenon of "breaking symmetry" was discovered by some physicists in
the nineties for which they were awarded Nobel Prize in 2008.
My point is that same or similar ideas can emerge from different
disciplines more or less during the same time.
Best wishes
Rasheed Areen
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
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Saturday, July 27, 2013
[Yasmin_discussions] how my art work influenced my mathematics research
from michele emmer, mathematician
Untill the end of the seventies I was a pure mathematician working on
minimal surfaces and calculus of variation. Then I started making
films on math and art, more or less 22 (including Escher, soap
bubbles, Flatland....). My father was a well known Italian film maker.
I also started organising large exhibitions on art and math including
a section at the Biennale of Art in Venice. This work was a sort of
parallel activity to my academic work.
In 1997 I started organizing an annual meeting in Venice on math and
culture, covering the relations between maths and art, architecture,
music, litterature, films, theatre. Later, I started givind courses at
the university for math and design students. My professional activity
was really changed. In the last 20 years I have written books,
including the one on soap bubbles in art and science, which won the
Viareggio award as best Italian essay in 2010. I am a mathemician
working on the connections between math and culture, mainly on math,
art, architecture and technology. All these started in 1976 viewing an
exhibhtion by Max Bill, with whom I cooperated in several projects
thereafter. A special session of my annual confrence in Venice will be
dedicated to him, on the 20th anniversary of his death.
_______________________________________________
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HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
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HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
Untill the end of the seventies I was a pure mathematician working on
minimal surfaces and calculus of variation. Then I started making
films on math and art, more or less 22 (including Escher, soap
bubbles, Flatland....). My father was a well known Italian film maker.
I also started organising large exhibitions on art and math including
a section at the Biennale of Art in Venice. This work was a sort of
parallel activity to my academic work.
In 1997 I started organizing an annual meeting in Venice on math and
culture, covering the relations between maths and art, architecture,
music, litterature, films, theatre. Later, I started givind courses at
the university for math and design students. My professional activity
was really changed. In the last 20 years I have written books,
including the one on soap bubbles in art and science, which won the
Viareggio award as best Italian essay in 2010. I am a mathemician
working on the connections between math and culture, mainly on math,
art, architecture and technology. All these started in 1976 viewing an
exhibhtion by Max Bill, with whom I cooperated in several projects
thereafter. A special session of my annual confrence in Venice will be
dedicated to him, on the 20th anniversary of his death.
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
Friday, July 26, 2013
[Yasmin_discussions] Does Art-Science Collaboration Contribute In Any Way to Successful Scientific Practice?
Does Art-Science Collaboration Contribute In Any Way to Successful
Scientific Practice?
D.L. Marrin, Ph.D. (Biogeochemist and Water Scientist)
Although I have only been collaborating with artists for about 6
years, there are three fundamental ways in which those interactions
have assisted me in my scientific work or in designing my applied
research to serve its target groups. The first is providing me
a broader range of options for presenting and applying my basic
science. This includes not only more comprehensible and relevant
ways to portray water to laypersons, but also a different perspective
on interpreting and expressing my data and observations.
Specifically, I learned to discern patterns and rhythms within data
and models that permitted me to transcend conventional and entrenched
techniques for analyzing and interpreting my work.
The second is a reminder that science
provides only one of many valid ways of "knowing" the natural world.
While this may sound more humbling than useful, it has provided
me opportunities for talking science with groups whose primary
connection to nature is more sensory, intuitive, or spiritual than it
is intellectual.
The third way is in altering a traditional approach to my applied
research, which consisted of defining a problem or conundrum in terms
of its description in the scientific literature and then crafting a
strategy based on past successes or on general principles. In working
with artists, who were more interested in how a problem affected the
balance or integration of seemingly unrelated factors, I realized
that my approach was sometimes too narrowly focused. Hence, even if
I were to "solve" the immediate problem, the underlying issue
would likely continue to arise in modified forms. In my opinion,
this is why many technological "fixes" to water quality and quantity
problems have been only marginally successful. I am beginning work on
a watershed project in Mexico that is based (from its inception) on
art-science collaborations.
_______________________________________________
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Scientific Practice?
D.L. Marrin, Ph.D. (Biogeochemist and Water Scientist)
Although I have only been collaborating with artists for about 6
years, there are three fundamental ways in which those interactions
have assisted me in my scientific work or in designing my applied
research to serve its target groups. The first is providing me
a broader range of options for presenting and applying my basic
science. This includes not only more comprehensible and relevant
ways to portray water to laypersons, but also a different perspective
on interpreting and expressing my data and observations.
Specifically, I learned to discern patterns and rhythms within data
and models that permitted me to transcend conventional and entrenched
techniques for analyzing and interpreting my work.
The second is a reminder that science
provides only one of many valid ways of "knowing" the natural world.
While this may sound more humbling than useful, it has provided
me opportunities for talking science with groups whose primary
connection to nature is more sensory, intuitive, or spiritual than it
is intellectual.
The third way is in altering a traditional approach to my applied
research, which consisted of defining a problem or conundrum in terms
of its description in the scientific literature and then crafting a
strategy based on past successes or on general principles. In working
with artists, who were more interested in how a problem affected the
balance or integration of seemingly unrelated factors, I realized
that my approach was sometimes too narrowly focused. Hence, even if
I were to "solve" the immediate problem, the underlying issue
would likely continue to arise in modified forms. In my opinion,
this is why many technological "fixes" to water quality and quantity
problems have been only marginally successful. I am beginning work on
a watershed project in Mexico that is based (from its inception) on
art-science collaborations.
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