Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Latin America and Cybernetics at ISEA 2012

Hello everybody,

Sorry it took so long to get back to our conversation, I have been
receiving several personal emails about the importance of this discussion
however people seem to be shy when time comes to participate in the list. I
will do my best to re-present some ideas and try to ignite the conversation
again.

In my opinion one of the most interesting things that happened in the panel
about Cybernetics in Latin America at ISEA2012 was the encounter between
the historian Susana Quintanilla and the scientist Eduardo Bayro
Corrochano. Quintanilla is an expert on Rosenblueth's work and his
collaborations with Norbert Wiener, she has been doing research
on Rosenblueth's contributions to the definition of Cybernetics
historically. Quintanilla also focusses on the impact of the Rosenblueth's
ideas in the design of CINVESTAV the Center for Scientific Research and
Advanced Studies one of the leading Latin American scientific institutions.

Here a text by Susana about Rosenblueth and Wiener:
http://www.infoamerica.org/documentos_pdf/wiener1.pdf

Eduardo Bayro Corrochano interestingly currently works at the
CINVESTAV in Guadalajara,
he found shocking how close were some ideas, methodologies and procedures
of Arturo Rosenblueth to his own work in computational geometry. Eduardo
Bayro Corrochano is a worldwide authority in Geometric Algebra and its
application to artificial intelligence, control and robotics.Here one of
the links of books published by professor Bayro-Corrochano recently, it is
possible to download the chapters individually:

http://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-1-84882-929-9/page/1


I must say there have been few times in my life when I assisted to the
cross pollination (in real time) between the knowledge of a social
scientist and a scientist, this encounter was one of those times.


BTW: Thanks to an interlibrary loan I requested the Encyclopaedia of
Cybernetics and Systems, thank you very much Ranulph for such a precious
information.

Saludos

On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 3:50 AM, Ranulph Glanville
<ranulph@glanville.co.uk>wrote:

> Dear All
>
> Let me add something Charles François was too modest to mention.
>
> He has published 2 editions of the International Encyclopaedia of
> Cybernetics and Systems, a massive resource (which desperately needs to be
> put not he web). This is seminal work in the presentation, dissemination
> and sometimes marriage of the multiplicity of views of cybernetics and
> systems.
>
> These great contributions meant that the American Society for Cybernetics
> was able to award Prof François its Wiener gold medal a couple of years
> back.
>
> I'm not sure this takes your discussion anywhere, but it does show that
> someone working in Latin America did this great job that both synthesises
> and maintains differences, a very cybernetic thing to do.
>
> Ranulph
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10 Nov 2012, at 05:07, Andres Burbano wrote:
>
> > Dear Yasminers, Eugenio, Pablo, Esteban.
> >
> > Let me add some more interesting information before we start to work on
> the
> > connections between the topics exposed. Doctor Ranulph Glanville, an
> > authority on Cybernetics, has been very active helping us inviting people
> > who can contribute our dialog about the "History of Cybernetics in Latin
> > America". One of the persons suggested was professor Charles
> > François. Charles François is a very influential Belgian / Argentinian
> > expert on System Theory and Cybernetics who has been active in the field
> > since the 50's.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_François_(systems_scientist)
> >
> > Interestingly professor Charles François replied saying that because of
> his
> > advanced age he can not participate in the discussion, but he sent the
> > following text as a contribution:
> >
> >
> > "Around 1956, there was a very active group in Buenos Aires which was
> > interested specially in Informatics (S. Lichtental), Biology (M.
> > Valentinuzzi, who worked in the U.S. with Prof. Anatol Rapoport),
> Medicine
> > and Artificial organisms. Argentine and foreigners working in the
> country
> > did publish scores of original papers and, in 1969, an Argentine Society
> > for Cybernetics was created. This Society organized important meetings.
> > In 1974, out of the Seminaries on Cybernetics organized on a practically
> > permanent schedule by the Argentine Scientific Society (ASS), the
> Institute
> > for Cybernetics was born, as a division of the ASS. But the Institute
> > unfortunately disappeared when Dr. Valentinuzzi passed over in 1983.
> >
> > In turn, Systemics was introduced with lectures given by Professors
> Charles
> > François and Armoza at the Catholic University of La Plata, Buenos Aires
> > (1973) and at the Argentine Scientific Society (1976) These lectures
> > whetted the interest of a number of members of the Institute for
> > Cybernetics and led to the creation of the Study Group of Systems and
> > Cybernetics (Grupo de Estudio de Sistemas y Cibernética) GESI, in october
> > 1976. It became, later on, the Argentine Society for Systems and
> > Cybernetics, a Civil Association legally registered at the IGJ
> (Argentina)
> > recognized as the Argentine branch of the International Society for
> Systems
> > Sciences (ISSS) (1984) as well as a member of the International
> Federation
> > for Systems Research (IFSR), University of Linz, Austria (1984) and
> > founding member of ALAS (Latin American Association of Systemics). From
> > 1976 on, GESI's members actively started the diffusion of Systemics and
> > Cybernetics, in the following ways:
> >
> > - Publication of booklets and pamphlets, either translations of foreign
> > texts, or original works, and articles in the web
> > - Organization of lectures and tutorials within the Association, or in
> > Universities, public and private Administrations, Hospitals, Enterprises,
> > etc.
> > - Organization of Seminars on a variety of specific subjects or
> situations
> > considered from an integrative systemic viewpoint
> > - Organization of Systemic Meetings with the presence of noted national
> and
> > foreign systemists
> > - Publication of the first Dictionary of Systemics and Cybernetics (in
> > Spanish) in collaboration with the Andean Institute of Systems (IAS) of
> > Lima, Perú. (1992)
> >
> > Members of GESI participate frequently in International Meetings and are
> > also members of the board of various International Systems and Cybernetic
> > Societies and Journals devoted to the investigation and practice of the
> > methodology. Its web site gives information of current research,
> > bibliography, new publications, activities of systems institutions
> > worldwide, and more. GESI encourages the participation of persons
> > interested in the study and diffusion of the Systemic Methodology and
> > Cybernetics. In view of the present generalized crisis in human societies
> > at all levels, GESI insists on the importance of the new and more
> coherent
> > view and reflexive action, , that the methodology based on Systems and
> > Cybernetics offer."
> >
> >
> > Thanks to Charles François and Ranulph Glanville.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 10:17 AM, esteban garcia <estebang@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> [Cybernetics in Latin America- ISEA2012]
> >>
> >> Dear Pablo, Eugenio and Yasmin suscribers
> >>
> >> In continuation with Pablo – Yes, Some of the members of Grupo de los 13
> >> participated in "Tendencies 5: Computer visual research. Conceptual art"
> >> taking place in Zagreb in 1973. The artists featured were Luis Fernando
> >> Benedit, Arturo Berni, Ernesto Deira, Eduardo Mac Entyre, Rogelio
> Polesello
> >> and Miguel Angel Vidal. These artists were invited as "Grupo de arte y
> >> cibernetica de Buenos Aires." In 2011, Margit Rosen (ZKM, 2011) edited
> the
> >> book about the New Tendencies movement, and how during 1961-1973
> clustered
> >> some of the earlier and most significant innovators in art, research and
> >> technology worldwide. The work of Berni is reminiscent of the early
> >> computer art of Charles Csuri, using computer plotters and vector image
> >> transformations. I did not find Benedit's work in this exhibit, but
> perhaps
> >> Pablo can find. I appreciate you sending your slides and the catalog
> "Arte
> >> y Cibernetica."
> >>
> >> Eugenio, in regard to your question:
> >>
> >> How has cybernetics specifically contributed to the development of Latin
> >> America, considered as a heterogeneous social space?
> >>
> >> As a Latin American, these stories shake me. I guess it is part of the
> >> process "de-Westernization" to start looking towards ourselves, and
> >> reflecting on innovations created for the Latin American context. A
> >> criticism to Technology is that it widens the social inequity through
> >> the *Digital
> >> Divide*. In our countries, this divide is highly apparent and that's why
> >> Medina's research on Cybersyn is so fascinating. Cybersyn was a peace
> >> technology and unfortunately an utopia.
> >>
> >> What do other's think? I am interested in how this histories are
> preserved
> >> through documentation, because otherwise how can we learn?
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >>
> >>
> >> Esteban García
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Eugenio Tisselli <cubo23@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello Yasminers,
> >>>
> >>> I am Eugenio Tisselli, artist, programmer and PhD candidate at Z-Node:
> >> the
> >>> Zurich node of the Planetary Collegium. Andrés kindly invited me to
> join
> >>> this conversation, and I must say I'm very excited to be part of this.
> I
> >> am
> >>> by no means an expert in cybernetics. Nevertheless, I have applied some
> >> of
> >>> its principles to the study and the development of projects in media
> art.
> >>> In this regard, I believe that cybernetics is a particularly relevant
> >>> conceptual tool that can shed light on some processes specific to media
> >>> art, such as interactivity or interface design.
> >>>
> >>> While I listened to the speakers of the Latin American and Cybernetics
> >>> panel at ISEA 2012, I felt a mix of wonder and uneasiness. My wonder
> came
> >>> from learning about many things I did not know about: for example,
> Arturo
> >>> Rosenblueth's close relationship with Norbert Wiener, or Benedit's
> work.
> >>> But my uneasiness was due to an issue which I find a bit paradoxical:
> how
> >>> can we speak of the regional particularities of a scientific approach
> >> that,
> >>> as many others, raises a claim to universality? Of course, the
> panelists
> >>> spoke about specific people in Latin America who were involved in some
> >> way
> >>> or another in the birth of cybernetics. But I'm pretty sure that many
> >> other
> >>> people coming from other regions of the world participated too. Also, I
> >>> understand that, politically, there is a lot at stake: it's important
> to
> >>> stress that innovative scientific theories are developed with the
> >>> contribution of people coming from outside the centers of political and
> >>> economic power.
> >>> Thus, I see the issue of "de-Westernization" of science being raised
> >>> here, and that's all very well. But the question I'd like to ask is:
> how
> >>> has cybernetics specifically contributed to the development of Latin
> >>> America, considered as a heterogeneous social space? It has always made
> >> me
> >>> a bit sad to think about Cybersyn, and how it was truncated by the coup
> >>> d'etat. I know that history doesn't allow "what if's" but... what would
> >>> have happened in Chile (and probably in neighboring countries) if
> >> Cybersyn
> >>> had become a reality?
> >>>
> >>> So, for me, speaking of cybernetics in Latin America is certainly
> >>> interesting. But I would like to think more deeply about its social
> >>> implications in the region (both as a theoretical approach and as an
> >>> applied science) ... I'll be looking forward to ideas coming from the
> >>> expertise of the people in this list.
> >>>
> >>> Best wishes,
> >>> Eugenio.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> De: Pablo Colapinto <wolftype@gmail.com>
> >>> Para: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> >>> Enviado: Lunes, 5 de noviembre, 2012 10:26 P.M.
> >>> Asunto: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Latin America and Cybernetics at ISEA
> >> 2012
> >>>
> >>> Hello Everybody,
> >>>
> >>> I am Pablo Colapinto, a cohort of Andrés Burbano at the University of
> >>> California in Santa Barbara, and a researcher in "geometric
> cybernetics"
> >> --
> >>> or
> >>> form-finding and form-making using reasoning machines. Andrés asked me
> >> to
> >>> moderate this conversation on Latin America and Cybernetics -- but of
> >>> course I imagine we can all act as moderators and ask questions of each
> >>> other. Please feel free to contact me off list if any issues arise (
> >>> wolftype@gmail.com).
> >>>
> >>> The text of my 5 minute talk and some of my research materials can be
> >> found
> >>> at www.wolftype.com/dl/cibernetica/ I believe Felipe shot a video as
> >>> well.
> >>>
> >>> Esteban, thank you for the summary of the talks. I remember afterwords
> >> you
> >>> were telling me something very interesting about a group of Eastern
> >>> European cyberneticians that had some overlap with the themes
> explicated
> >> by
> >>> El Grupo de los Trece in Argentina in the late 60s and 70s. We would
> >> all I
> >>> am sure love to hear more about that on this list.
> >>>
> >>> You asked if someone could perhaps explain a bit about Eduardo
> >>> Bayro-Corrochano's talk, and I encourage those who were there to give
> >> their
> >>> impressions. Perhaps it would help if I speak a bit more about the
> system
> >>> of mathematics with which Eduardo works, since it is also my area of
> >>> specialty. Andrés asked the question at the conference, but time did
> not
> >>> allow me to fully answer. My master's thesis has more in depth
> >> introduction
> >>> www.wolftype.com/versor
> >>>
> >>> Briefly, Geometric Algebra combines deductive reasoning with inductive
> >>> reasoning. Deductive reasoning is the kind of "top-down" reasoning we
> >> are
> >>> used to in Euclidean geometry, where general rules lead to specific
> >>> conclusions: a line intersects a coplanar circle at two points, two
> >>> overlapping spheres intersect at a circle, two points can define a
> >>> line, two lines can intersect to define a point, etc. Inductive
> >> reasoning
> >>> is more of a "bottom-up" approach to logic, where specific conclusions
> >> made
> >>> in one instance can be generalized and formulated into a more general
> >> rule.
> >>> A lot of the power of Geometric Algebra lies in its ability to use
> >>> deductive reasoning to work out simple problems intuitively, and then
> >>> inductive reasoning to generalize those solutions to more complex
> >>> situations, whether they be higher dimensions or curved spaces.
> Because
> >>> Geometric Algebra is "coordinate free", which means it is not tied down
> >> to
> >>> any particular metric space or dimension, what it enables is the
> building
> >>> of computational systems that are fluid, adaptable, and horizontally
> >>> integrable.
> >>>
> >>> Eduardo's Cinvestav laboratory in Guadalajara is pretty much the only
> one
> >>> in the world using Geometric Algebra to study control and automation of
> >>> perception-action systems. Throughout the "Perception-Action Cycle"
> >> which
> >>> he discussed in his lecture fundamentally relies on the above model
> >>> represent the world to the computer. He uses the same mathematical
> >> system
> >>> to control projective computer vision (seeing a 3d world), neural
> >>> processing (recognizing objects), and robot locomotion and actuation
> >>> (movement of robot arms). That a single mathematical system is
> employed
> >>> "from head to toe" in the design of humanoids is unique. I think of
> the
> >>> mathematics as an abstract substrate, a sort of soil out of which seeds
> >> of
> >>> artificial intelligence can grow. It also is very very closely related
> >> to
> >>> second order cybernetics as espoused by the likes of Heinz von
> Foerster,
> >>> where "seeing" is structurally coupled with "doing".
> >>>
> >>> "If you want to see, learn how to act." says Foerster. Of note, the
> >>> geometric system mentioned above was invented in the 1860s by William
> >>> Clifford, and brought back into modern day calculus by a theoretical
> >>> physicist, David Hestenes. This provenance is relevant, for it shows
> >> that
> >>> some of our modern "thinking machines" are using the very mathematics
> >> used
> >>> to describe the nature of the universe itself.
> >>>
> >>> This is a somewhat truncated answer, but hopefully useful. I imagine
> >> this
> >>> conversation will continue on this list for some time, so hopefully
> there
> >>> will be plenty of time for us all to elaborate on various themes.
> >> Looking
> >>> forward to hearing what everyone has to say!
> >>>
> >>> Warm Regards,
> >>> Pablo
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 5:14 PM, esteban garcia <estebang@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Dear members of Yasmin,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I am Esteban García an artist and PhD candidate in Computer Graphics
> >>>> Technology at Purdue University. I presented at ISEA 2012 a workshop
> on
> >>> web
> >>>> radio called "Radio Chigüiro" and collaborated with Andrés Burbano in
> >> the
> >>>> panel "Code Talkers." I also attended to the exciting panel in
> >>> Cybernetics
> >>>> and here are my notes:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Latin America and Cybernetics at ISEA 2012
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> This panel focused in past and current Latin American approaches to
> >>>> cybernetics. Researchers in Artists, Neurologists, Politicians and
> >>>> Mathematicians have explored cybernetics, "the scientific study of
> >>> control
> >>>> and communication in the animal and the machine."[1] Some of the
> >>> approaches
> >>>> included transposing different disciplines to create within a new
> field
> >>> of
> >>>> knowledge.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Susana Quintanilla presented on an early case of the Latin American
> >>>> influence in the development of a conceptual model for cybernetics. It
> >>>> started with the communication of Neuroscientists Norman Weiner and
> >>> Arturo
> >>>> Rosenblueth, starting in the 1930's and continuing throughout their
> >>> lives.
> >>>> Rosenblueth was a scholar born in México who in the 1930 was awarded
> an
> >>>> scholarship in the department of Physiology of Harvard Univeristy.
> >> During
> >>>> his lifetime, he co-wrote articles with Weiner including "Behavior,
> >>> Purpose
> >>>> and Teleology" in 1943, a seminal article that redefined the theory of
> >>>> cybernetics. Rosenblueth's return to Mexico as a Professor in the
> >>>> Physiology department of UNAM didn't stop him and Wiener to continue
> to
> >>>> collaborate. They were able to maintain correspondence and co-author
> >>>> research in the new science of cybernetics.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Pablo Colapinto's presentation regarded to "Grupo de los 13," an
> >>>> Argentinian-based group of artists who in the 1970's explored
> >>> cybernetics.
> >>>> The work of Luis Fernando Benedit was highlighted. His work explored
> >> the
> >>>> development of autonomous systems. Benedit's "Biotron" was installed
> in
> >>> the
> >>>> 1970 Venice Biennale, displaying an enclosed environment for bees:
> >>>>
> >>>> *
> >>>> *
> >>>>
> >>>> *Biotron, an aluminum and plexiglas construction which housed 4,000
> >> bees,
> >>>> shown at the 1970 Venice Biennale. The insects had the choice of
> >> feeding
> >>>> from artificial flowers which dripped sugar at the direction of a
> >>> computer,
> >>>> or from actual flowers in a nearby garden. The bees preferred the
> >>>> artificial solution.* [2]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Pablo, can talk a little more about Benedit's work? It was a very
> >>>> interesting presentation.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Eden Medina's presentation was called "Cybernetics and Political
> Change
> >>> in
> >>>> Chile. Medina focused in the particular case of project Cybersyn, an
> >>>> experiment in cybernetic socialism during Salvador Allende's
> government
> >>>> from 1970 to 1973. The presentation was based on Medina's book
> >> entitled
> >>>> "Cybernetic Revolutionaries" from MIT Press (2011) [3]. Cybersyn
> >>> overlapped
> >>>> science and politics aimed to be a socialist approach to technological
> >>>> innovation.
> >>>>
> >>>> In 1971, Fernando Flores wrote to Stafford Beer about starting a
> >>>> challenging project to be implemented across the whole country. In a
> >> note
> >>>> by Medina:
> >>>>
> >>>> *
> >>>> *
> >>>>
> >>>> *The person in charge of the technical aspects of the nationalization
> >>>> effort had learned about cybernetics in college, especially a vein of
> >>>> cybernetic thought known as management cybernetics that was in
> >>> development
> >>>> by an Englishman named Stafford Beer.*
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> A team that included Beer, aimed to create a National network for data
> >>>> processing using one mainframe computer. The goal was to achieve an
> >>>> auto-regulated society. One of the highlighted examples, was a sketch
> >> of
> >>>> Project Cyberfolk, by Beer. Cyberfolk was a prototype of a system that
> >>>> could be installed in people's Television to give the government
> >>> real-time
> >>>> feedback about society. One of the notes on the bottom represented a
> >> dial
> >>>> with a meter to measure the overall levels of happiness of the
> >>> population.
> >>>> Medina explained that "Cybersyn illustrates how political innovation
> >> can
> >>>> lead to technological innovation.*"*
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Unfortunately, I couldn't be in Eduardo Bayro's [4] presentation. Did
> >>>> anybody get to see it? Maybe Alejandro?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I tried my best to recollect from my notes, also I would like to thank
> >>> Eden
> >>>> for sending me her notes about her presentation.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Talk to all you soon,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Esteban García
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> References:
> >>>>
> >>>> [1] Wiener, Norbert (1948). Cybernetics, or Communication and Control
> >> in
> >>>> the Animal and the Machine. Cambridge: MIT Press.
> >>>>
> >>>> [2]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> http://www.moma.org/docs/press_archives/4913/releases/MOMA_1972_0142_125.pdf?2010
> >>>>
> >>>> [3]http://www.cyberneticrevolutionaries.com/?page_id=2
> >>>>
> >>>> [4] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-2Hk3Gkuow
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> Esteban García
> >>>> art & research
> >>>> www.snebtor.org
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> >>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> >>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
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> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Esteban García
> >> art & research
> >> www.snebtor.org
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> >> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
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>
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> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
> password in the fields found further down the page.
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on
> the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>
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HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.