I think the use of the word 'abstract' is misleading here. By definition an abstraction abstracts from something. A better term may be Art Concret as redefined in 1947 by Max Bill modifying Van Doesburg's original 1924 definition:
"We call Concrete Art those works of art which originate on the basis of means and laws of their own, without external reliance on phenomena or any transformation of them, in other words, without undergoing a process of abstraction. Concrete painting and sculpture are the formulation of what is optically perceptible. Their means of formulation are colors, space, light, and movement."
Bill would have been amused by the suggestion that such art was "the root of evil". For him the purity of art concret made it the perfect manifestation of Marxism in the arts.
Paul
On 9 Oct 2013, at 16:20, Paul Fishwick <metaphorz@gmail.com> wrote:
> Simon
> The original post "naked math is the root of all evil" was likely meant to
> be provocative, so I am guilty in a need to respond -- probably
> a mistake. Here is the post for reference:
>
> http://www.rimwe.com/the-solver-blog/43.html
>
> The term "naked math" refers to mathematics without context. Mathematics
> "within a context" usually refers to mathematical modeling -- that the
> mathematics models or represents something in the real world. My point
> was simply to rephrase this in terms of something that the Yasmin group
> might find equally appalling (or not?): what is the art analogy of naked
> math? It would probably fall into the general area of abstract art -- something
> performed and executed that is not representational of the world, and so
> is equally as "naked".
>
> I find that looking at arguments but placing them into a different context
> is educational and enlightening.
>
> As to "beauty", quite right, this could be a lengthy discussion on
> aesthetics. I look at art because it conveys a story or I find it interesting,
> or is relevant to my life, in some way. Whether that is the same as "beauty"
> who knows. Eco seemed to think so:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/History-Beauty-Umberto-Eco/product-reviews/0847835308/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1
>
> -p
>
> On Oct 8, 2013, at 7:31 AM, Simon Biggs <simon@littlepig.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> I'm not going to debate whether mathematics is beautiful in its pure form or not as I'm not equipped. However, I do wonder what is meant by beauty in respect of art as a lot of art (perhaps most contemporary work) is neither beautiful or intended to be. I also wonder what pure art might be - I've never come across that idea before?
>>
>> best
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>> On 8 Oct 2013, at 02:27, Paul Fishwick <metaphorz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Roger:
>>>
>>> In response to Perdue on "naked math is the root of all evil," I chose not
>>> to respond to to the blog, but rather to Yasmin. I understand Perdue's
>>> concept of naked math to encompass mathematics that is not modeling
>>> anything in particular. The point about mathematics being relevant,
>>> however, does make sense to engage more people within the field. But
>>> let's not be biased in the heat of debate because "naked art is the root of
>>> all evil" is a corollary of her argument, or should be. If art is shown that
>>> cannot be connected to anything in the real world, isn't it evil--as pure math
>>> is? What is the difference between pure math and pure art?
>>> Perhaps the point is to create bridge areas, but I would go further than
>>> Perdue with regard to modeling. I would say not only should we encourage
>>> mathematical modeling as one way to engage others, but that mathematics
>>> should be treated as subject material for design and art. This is something
>>> I stress in my classes -- let's take the core of mathematical thought in terms
>>> of both its solution-based output as well as its formal structure in terms of
>>> media design. Simultaneously, let's view art from a mathematical perspective--
>>> set theory, for instance - the ability to create amazing abstractions that go
>>> far beyond appearance. Mathematics and art are both beautiful in their
>>> pure forms.
>>>
>>> -p
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 7, 2013, at 6:22 PM, roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jennifer
>>>>
>>>> yes its a fact that the growth of the art science technology field is occurring
>>>> in a context where the arts and humanities are in general under budgetary
>>>> attack- your unesco news is part of a growing trend
>>>>
>>>> in our own university at the same time that our art and technology
>>>> program and emerging media program are growing with new student enrollment,
>>>> there is declining enrollment in arts and humanities- i know in england the
>>>> effect of the new evaluation metrics has steadily reduced investment
>>>> in humanities-
>>>> and i remember seeing a university in canada closed down a humanities department
>>>> based on an inadequate student/faculty ratio- the idea of a 'liberal'
>>>> arts and sciences
>>>> foundation is disappearing
>>>>
>>>> Sundar Sarukkai in his two SEAD white papers (links below) discusses
>>>> at length the situation in India
>>>> where the recent rapid growth of science and technology universities
>>>> with little serious effort to include
>>>> the arts and humanities - a 'polytechnic' approach that is common in
>>>> some other countries- it will be
>>>> interesting to see the path taken by higher education in india
>>>>
>>>> HUMANITIES EDUCATION IN KARNATAKA (A draft note prepared for the
>>>> Karnataka Knowledge Commission, Government of Karnataka)
>>>>
>>>> http://seadnetwork.wordpress.com/white-paper-abstracts/draft-white-papers-for-comment/humanities-education-in-karnataka/
>>>>
>>>> HUMANITIES IN SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY INSTITUTES (A CASE STUDY OF ONE
>>>> INSTITUTE IN INDIA)
>>>>
>>>> http://seadnetwork.wordpress.com/white-paper-abstracts/draft-white-papers-for-comment/humanities-in-science-and-technology-institutes-a-case-study-of-one-institute-in-india/
>>>>
>>>> One of the interesting things about robert and michele root
>>>> bernstein's work on the impact of early arts and crafts
>>>> education on future scientists and engineers is their strong claim
>>>> that it can be demonstrated using quantitative
>>>> evidence that if you want to train innovators-then the arts and
>>>> sciences have to be joined in the cultural imagination
>>>> at a very early age.
>>>>
>>>> There is a fun discussion on linked in right now on naked Math as the
>>>> Root of All Evil !!
>>>>
>>>> Naked Math is the Root of All Evil
>>>>
>>>> Dr. Diana S. PerdueMathematics Educator & Entrepreneur
>>>>
>>>> Mathematics should have meaning... that requires context. As such, the
>>>> latest post on the Solver Blog makes the case that Naked Math (i.e.
>>>> math without context) is the root of all (educational) evil. Read more
>>>> at:
>>>> http://www.rimwe.com/the-solver-blog/43.html
>>>>
>>>> That's the mission of Rimwe Educational Resources LLC.
>>>>
>>>> It really is that simple. Math is the language of science,
>>>> technology, engineering, art, music, nature, and the universe. As
>>>> such, it is critical that people, all people, as inhabitors of this
>>>> world, understand mathematics. It is the structure behind everything
>>>> we build, create, invent, and aspire to do. Sadly, the way we've
>>>> taught math in the past has been as a disjoint, disconnected set of
>>>> rules to memorize and "do" rather than understand. But fear not,
>>>> there is hope! There IS a better way: Rimwe ("rim-way")!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> dont know how we work on the UNESCO problem-but sounds like
>>>> mobilisation is needed
>>>>
>>>> roger malina
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Jennifer Kanary Nikolov(a)
>>>> <jenniferkanary@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> HI All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Just wanted to point out this new petition about creativity in education in danger of being eliminated from UNESCO, very relevant to this discussion I would say:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "UNESCO has been busy analyzing and ranking the areas of their work by
>>>>> priority, with those areas that receive the lowest ranking being marked
>>>>> for elimination. The Creativity programme, within which arts education
>>>>> falls, was ranked at the very bottom of UNESCO's 48 priority areas and
>>>>> is at risk of elimination. If this happens, UNESCO's invaluable work in
>>>>> this area, including the Road Map for Arts Education, the World
>>>>> Conferences for Arts Education, the International Arts Education week,
>>>>> and all the other projects related to both arts education and creativity
>>>>> in the broadest sense, will be terminated and will no longer receive
>>>>> support. An additional consequence will be to give our governments yet
>>>>> another excuse to de-prioritise Arts Education and to deny both
>>>>> promotion of and access to the arts for children and young people"
>>>>>
>>>>> https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Ensure_Creativity_remains_a_UNESCO_priority/?sTqfFfb
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jennifer
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>>
>>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>>
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>>>
>>> Paul Fishwick, PhD
>>> Chair, ACM SIGSIM
>>> Distinguished Chair of Arts & Technology
>>> and Professor of Computer Science
>>> Director, Creative Automata Laboratory
>>> The University of Texas at Dallas
>>> Arts & Technology
>>> 800 West Campbell Road, AT10
>>> Richardson, TX 75080-3021
>>> Home: utdallas.edu/atec/fishwick
>>> Blog: creative-automata.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>
>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>
>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
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>>>
>>
>>
>> Simon Biggs
>> simon@littlepig.org.uk
>> http://www.littlepig.org.uk @SimonBiggsUK http://amazon.com/author/simonbiggs
>>
>> s.biggs@ed.ac.uk Edinburgh College of Art, University of Edinburgh
>> http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/edinburgh-college-art/school-of-art/staff/staff?person_id=182&cw_xml=profile.php
>> http://www.research.ed.ac.uk/portal/en/persons/simon-biggs%285dfcaf34-56b1-4452-9100-aaab96935e31%29.html
>>
>> http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ http://www.elmcip.net/ http://www.movingtargets.org.uk/ http://designinaction.com/
>> MSc by Research in Interdisciplinary Creative Practices http://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/postgraduate/degrees?id=656&cw_xml=details.php
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>
>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>
>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
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>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>
> Paul Fishwick, PhD
> Chair, ACM SIGSIM
> Distinguished Chair of Arts & Technology
> and Professor of Computer Science
> Director, Creative Automata Laboratory
> The University of Texas at Dallas
> Arts & Technology
> 800 West Campbell Road, AT10
> Richardson, TX 75080-3021
> Home: utdallas.edu/atec/fishwick
> Blog: creative-automata.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
====
Paul Brown - based in the UK April to October 2013
http://www.paul-brown.com == http://www.brown-and-son.com
UK Mobile +44 (0)794 104 8228
Skype paul-g-brown
====
Honorary Visiting Professor - Sussex University
http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/ccnr/research/creativity.html
====
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