concern all people, and to contribute to the creative conversations of our
times. I, as an artist, would choose paint in a tube any day if it meant I
could participate in current dialogues.
On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 4:08 PM, William Joel <joelw@wcsu.edu> wrote:
> Sigh ... oh how I long for the day when artists were also material
> scientists, physicists, chemists, mathematicians, etc. It can be quite
> extraordinary to consider how many, and varied skills an artist needed to
> survive. Somehow today, with the industrialuzation of art supplies, tubes
> of paints whose hues are fastidiously controlled, our students do not
> understand or appreciate the tools they work with. Then look, artists begin
> to use computers, and they're told that what they produce are not art
> works, because it was "too easy". Easy? Truly? Seems to me that in order to
> create true works of art, one needs to master her tools. Yes? But easy?
> Should we ask all artists to return to mixing their own paints, grinding
> pigments first, and then blending them with appropriate substrates? I'm an
> artist and a scientist, and both aspects (NOT sides) inform each other.
>
> Bill Joel
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr [
> yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr] On Behalf Of Paul Fishwick
> [metaphorz@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:23 PM
> To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] yasmin redux
>
> Roger
>
> I am curious about something — in your post, you say:
>
>
> this can sometimes 'instrumentalise' the arts in
> > the service of science and industry
>
>
> If the above is seen to be an issue, what about mathematics, the
> sciences and engineering being "instrumentalized" in the service to
> the arts? I would imagine that you have an equal problem with this
> direction?
> We cannot have it both ways, meaning that we cannot disparage the
> using of the arts as new means for improving something (communication,
> education), but then have no problems with artists using
> math/sci/engineering
> as "instrumental." Either (1) any sort of instrumentalization is considered
> problematic in either direction (art->sci, sci->art), or (2) both sorts of
> instrumentalization are seen as equally beneficial and both should be
> celebrated.
> I think we all agree that "using", "instrument", and "tool" are a bit
> pejorative
> regardless of who or what is being targeted (artists, computer scientists,
> etc).
> However, lots of research is needed in both directions.
> Most folks are going to emphasize one thing over the other, especially
> given
> our divided, disciplinary academy. In such an environment, we should be
> glad
> that some scientists are accepting of the arts to improve their fields in
> the same
> way that we are glad that artists "use" new sci/eng products. If
> scientists can
> improve their STEM fields by "arts integration" (let's use that term
> rather than the
> words "instrument" or "tool"), that is a good outcome considering that
> vast majority of my STEM colleagues have no special interest in the arts.
>
> -p
>
>
>
> On Sep 19, 2014, at 9:19 PM, roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>
> > yasminers
> > our list was down for a few days
> > if you tried to post and it didnt'
> > appear=please re [post
> >
> > we are hoping to continue the stem
> > to steam
> > discussion for another week and would welcome
> > insights
> >
> > clearly the stem to steam discussion is embedded'
> > in a currently fashionable political/economic discourse
> > about creativity/innovation/employment
> >
> > this can sometimes 'instrumentalise' the arts in
> > the service of science and industry
> >
> > how can we articulate the sciences and engineering
> > in the support of the arts as goals in themselves ?
> >
> > roger malina
> > _______________________________________________
> > Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> > Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> > http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> >
> > Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
> >
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>
> Paul Fishwick, PhD
> Chair, ACM SIGSIM
> Distinguished University Chair of Arts & Technology
> and Professor of Computer Science
> Director, Creative Automata Laboratory
> The University of Texas at Dallas
> Arts & Technology
> 800 West Campbell Road, AT10
> Richardson, TX 75080-3021
> Home: utdallas.edu/atec/fishwick
> Blog: creative-automata.com
>
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http://mglstudio.blogspot.com
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