Monday, August 31, 2020

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Saturday, August 15, 2020

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 30, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

1. Fwd: news from Brazil (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 14:56:10 -0500
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] Fwd: news from Brazil
Message-ID:
<mailman.18.1597418866.37226.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

yasminers
diana domingues sends us this memory
of arlindo machado

roger malina
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Diana Domingues <dgdomingues@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 6:13 PM
Subject: news from Brazil
To: Roger Malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>


Dearest friend,

Sorry for such bad news today! I suppose you know about it , because
people have been communicating about that , in the last days. But I
decided to write to my best friends!

I am really sad about the passing of Arlindo Machado, last Sunday.
It was due to heart problems. He was not in good health for a long time.
Now, we need only remember and celebrate his wisdom and dedication. Many
memories and legacies: in my case, texts still from the 90s. Go to my
FB, where
I posted his classic and pioneering book in 88," A Arte do V?deo"
accompanied by an interview at MIS when he was launching the book. At this
time he was finishing his Ph.D. at PUC SP and was my Professor at USP in my
Master's with Julio Plaza support. Very young, even when he had only the
Master's degree, he was quite brilliant and vibrant by the creative mind of
artists. He used to visit me in each trip I did to S?o Paulo, for
discussing my projects and making plans for Brazil. I have a great text
about my "aesthetic of metamorphosis " thesis, and we discussed the
respective exhibitions.
Rare moments! OMG, only SAUDADES , Brazilian word that strongly says our
feelings!

We will miss you , irreplaceable, Arlindo! Cheers to your magnificent life!

How are you doing? My SAUDADES too!

Forte abra?o!!

Diana


------------------------------

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Friday, July 31, 2020

ntlab.gr mailing list memberships reminder

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Thursday, July 23, 2020

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2

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THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DIGEST


Today's Topics:

1. Tania Fraga sends us these Unforgettable Memories of Arlindo
Machado (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:37:32 -0500
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] Tania Fraga sends us these Unforgettable
Memories of Arlindo Machado
Message-ID:
<mailman.1.1595441792.37226.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Yasminer friends,
Tania Fraga sends us these Unforgettable Memories of Arlindo Machado:
? Virtuality, Visuality & Reality

We encourage all those who knew Arlindo to share with us their memories
as part of reinventing how we remember for the future in this digital age,
when post people who are dying during the pandemic will be un-remembered

Roger Malina

The fragments of memories I have of Arlindo Machado are memorable. I
met him in 1989, at the first meeting of Art and Technology at the
University of Brasilia, a time when I was looking for ways to express
myself using the computer, what we now call computer art.

His reflections on art and technology enchanted me. They brought to me
the theories of Vil?m Flusser about the role of the artist and the
philosopher when working with technical images. Such a purpose is to
glimpse the contents of semiotic machines as devices programmed with
"stupid automation" in a world of "empty symbols," that constrain the
"space for freedom."[1]



There is a need to learn to "think with images,"[2] sounds, and words.
The exponential combination of possibilities ? explained in the
Mallarm? dice game and potentially found in the computer-generated
images ? emerges from the mysterious world of computer graphics as an
infinite universe of options, making the pure mathematical abstraction
concrete, visible. This meeting was a sublime moment that made me
inquire about what the "thingness" of things consists of and what
reality is.


Arlindo taught me that video-graphic images permit "writing the
movement," allowing the artist to "interfere in the construction of
the image," subvert them, play and experiment with them, manage signs
in languages of sensitivity and imagination, making the sensitive
intelligible. He had the miraculous ability to bring these themes to
life, making me fall in love with such possible fields. It also could
make me envision the possibility of creating a visual and virtual
language with numbers.


In his classes and lectures, he showed us that the sign and symbolic
space is revealed in the poetic flashes of what happens, presenting
itself, showing off as an experiment that allows experimentation with
language. An investigation that led me to embark on a creative act
that carries in its popular name ? virtual reality ? an apparent
paradox. Any work that expresses itself as visual and virtual realms
presents the virtual giving it visibility, and therefore reality. In
this way, it made the act of thinking and conceiving language an
adventure that allows us to realize and experience this something.


I learned from Arlindo to observe the signs and signals emanating from
the things and beings surrounding us; to face the enormous complexity
of the perceptual field, its objects, its energies. Its peculiar
creatures and its multiple aspects allow an immediate knowledge
entwined in psychic activity, as an intersection of the world with the
inner, subjective states, characterizing it as data of experience in
the consciousness of the individual who interprets them and gives them
meanings. The mirror of the mind reflects fragments of a world outside
that mind, but which passes through it, presenting itself as
reflections of a complex totality. We give meanings to these reflexes,
interpreting them from the mythopoetic configurations available in our
repertoires of cognitive and sensory beings.


I take this moment to arouse the readers' curiosity and invite them to
enjoy discovering Arlindo's texts. There are many, and I will not list
them here. I highlight, however, those who influenced me the most:
"The Art of Video," "The Fourth Iconoclasm," "Machines and Imaginary,"
and "The Subject on the Screen," which, according to him, I was the
"inspiring muse of many parts of this book." When Arlindo talked about
the sensual character of stereoscopic images and the eroticism of
their look, I remember that he irreverently provoked me and made me
say to full auditoriums the (private) name of one of this stereoscopic
work: red butt torus. In the book "The Fourth Iconoclasm," we will
find an extensive discussion on the importance of non-verbal
communication and expression languages as being perfectly adequate for
the production of knowledge and reflection.


I learned from Arlindo to observe the signs and signals emanating from
the things and beings surrounding us; to face the enormous complexity
of the perceptual field, its objects, its energies. Its peculiar
creatures and its multiple aspects allow an immediate knowledge
entwined in psychic activity, as an intersection of the world with the
inner, subjective states, characterizing it as data of experience in
the consciousness of the individual who interprets them and gives them
meanings. The mirror of the mind reflects fragments of a world outside
that mind, but which passes through it, presenting itself as
reflections of a complex totality. We give meanings to these reflexes,
interpreting them from the mythopoetic configurations available in our
repertoires of cognitive and sensory beings.


With his enormous generosity, during my doctorate, which he
supervised, Arlindo gave me a copy of his book still in press,
"Machines and Imaginary." In this book, Arlindo discusses the
importance of the process in itself for the creation of artworks, of
simulation, Mallarm?'s dream, the status of reality, and the hegemony
of electronic image, among many other related subjects. For Arlindo,
the virtual signs conquer the regime of becoming realities: tangible
and intangible, virtual, visual, immaterial, and material, inherent,
possible, interior, psychic, transcendent realities. Realms that are
interpreted by the sensors available in the neural system and are
translated and evaluated, configuring themselves as mental processes,
presenting themselves as perceptions that take the form of thoughts.


Therefore, we infer that thought expresses itself through signs, and,
through them, represents, remembers, and presents the objects that
exist in the world outside of it ? thought ? and that with them ?
objects ? establish relations.


Thoughts are worthy things. Artists usually characterize them as
visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, gustatory, and intuitive
thoughts. They enable discernment and the ability to unveil, in all
their fullness, a corresponding character, of a different order from
that achieved through discursive or analytical knowledge, used by
philosophers and scientists.


The direct, immediate, and current apprehension of a
sign?thing?symbol, in its reality, is one of the physical
characteristics of the contemporary artist's work. In this, the
material realm presents itself as phenomenal fields composed of
possibilities updated through visual, aural, tactile, taste, and
olfactory experimentation. This characteristic is what makes virtual
domains present themselves as reality.


How many hours of discussions and provocations about Flusser's
statements related to the artist's need, or not, to penetrate the
"interior of the black box, interfering in its internal workings (?)
since all criticism of the technical image must aim at whitening that
box."[3]



At that time, there were countless questions formed in my mind: the
artist's role is the act of organizing experiments with the things
that presented and represented something, being present because they
exist to become the experience of those who experience them and
interact with them? How does something that presents itself virtual,
identify itself as numbers, appear perceptible gaining existence as a
thing or potential to be a thing? Are these artistic virtual realities
something more than experimental reflections of a mathematical world?
Although they capture the attention of the participants, impose
themselves on their sensations, and transform vague feelings ?
qualities intertwined in the nebulous here and now ? into a dominant
perceptual process, are these processes expressions of the artist's
sensitive and sensory universe? Are they also characterized as
hypermedia, mediating interdependent and plural signs?

Arlindo challenged me frequently. One of those challenges was to work
with whites. This challenge required years of research, and it took a
long time to get a bold result. Computer graphics domains result
through the manipulation of light and achieving white variations
within the environment created a problematic situation. Therefore, I
photographed snowy landscapes in countless ways, with different
lighting and points of view, until I could understand how to
accomplish something meaningful with withes, using computer graphics.
The virtual worlds Branqueza (Whiteness) and Negreza (Blackness),
resulted from this experimental process and are part of the
interactive virtual scenarios of the MindFluctuations brain-computer
dance spectacle[4].



My relationship with Arlindo led me to consider the artist as one who
explores, discovers, and realizes virtual realms of which they are not
sure. Therefore, the artist aims to exercise sensitivities, arouse
curiosities, and boost actions for themselves and others. The artist
is the individual who delivers universes of possibilities, provoking,
in the other, a quality of apprehension of something, leading the
consciousness to a state of availability emptied of everything, except
the pure sensation resulting from the effect that this something
produced. It blurs the boundaries between the quality that presents
itself and the reaction that it provides in the mind of the individual
who experiences it[5].



To conclude, I tell that the unforgettable memories I have from my
contact with Arlindo lead me to oscillate with malleability in a
flexible universe of multiplicities and numbers. Sometimes I recall a
sensitive fact, other times another. There are many incomplete
memories, resulting in a discontinuous becoming of sensations and
emotions.


In Brazil, Arlindo Machado was one of the most influential theorists,
defining the parameters for the evolution of techniques and languages
related to technical images. He outlined guidelines for developing new
poetic possibilities, encouraging experimentation, and influencing
more than one generation of artists, producers, and thinkers working
with video art, and computer art. Arlindo has always supported the
experimental adventure of creating poetic assemblages in the process
of becoming, allowing artists to organize, disorganize, reorganize,
and transform space-time environments, experiencing their endless and
unpredictable possibilities.


For me, Arlindo continues and will continue alive in my work since my
ways of thinking, and my world views entwine with his ideas.






________________________________

[1] The expressions in quotes are by Flusser in the book The
Philosophy of the Black Box.

[2] The quotes are from Arlindo's book, The Fourth Iconoclasm.

[3] The quotes are from Arlindo's book, The Fourth Iconoclasm, pages from 37?52.

[4] Spectacle performed by the American dance group, Maida Withers
Dance Construction Company, in Washington, DC, on March 19th, 2015.
See video in:

https://vimeo.com/126002412

https://vimeo.com/129893299



[5] See Fraga, Tania. (1995). Simula??es Estereosc?picas Interativas
(Interactive Stereoscopic Simulations). PhD thesis, PUC-SP, available
at:

http://taniafraga.art.br/arquivos_html/tese.html

Roger in Dallas, please phone/txt/ +15108532007 if urgent
http://yurisnightdfw.com/



------------------------------

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End of Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2
*************************************************

Monday, July 20, 2020

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 29, Issue 1

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THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DIGEST


Today's Topics:

1. yasmin discussion: What we talk about when we talk about the
Moon? (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
2. remembering frank popper (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 13:38:09 -0500
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr, "Arthur R. Woods"
<awoods@spaceart.net>, Annick Cell Bureaud <abureaud@gmail.com>
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] yasmin discussion: What we talk about
when we talk about the Moon?
Message-ID:
<mailman.6.1595175903.5243.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

yasminers

Arthur Woods and I are proposing a YASMIN discussion on
What we talk about when we talk about the Moon?

there is a webinar June 23, 2020 @ 17:00 ? 18:00 CEST
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/mva-webinar-what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-the-moon-tickets-108538547718

we look forward ata time of cultural and societal transition, discussing things
in a larger context

roger malina

MVA Webinar hosted by the Cultural Considerations Working Group

Agenda:

Introduction- Remo Rapetti
Prof. Stefano Catucci: ?What we talk about when we talk about the Moon?
Michelle Hanlon, Co-Founder and President, For All Moonkind:? Why
protect the bootprints? A look at the legal and social issues that
intersect the past and the future?

Arthur Woods will lead the discussion.

Speakers:

Prof. Stefano Catucci, University of Rome
Prof. Catucci teaches Aesthetics in the Faculty of Architecture and is
the author of the book ?Learning from the Moon? (Quodlibet, Rome,
2013. The book is available only in Italian). The book analyzes the
paradoxes of the imminent transformation of the Moon into a museum and
tries to better understand the logic of tourism and our fetishistic
relation with the remnants of our past.

Michelle Hanlon, Co-Founder and President, For All Moonkind:
For All Moonkind, Inc. is a non-profit organization that seeks to
protect each of the six human lunar landing and similar sites in outer
space as part of our common human heritage. Website:
https://www.forallmoonkind.org/

Register to participate in the webinar or watch live on Facebook.

To register:

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/mva-webinar-what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-the-moon-tickets-108538547718

Roger in Dallas, please phone/txt/ +15108532007 if urgent
http://yurisnightdfw.com/



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 10:31:24 -0500
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] remembering frank popper
Message-ID:
<mailman.7.1595175931.5243.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

yasminers
details below of the funeral for frank popper at the Pere Lachaise in
Paris July 28
Franck Ancel will be representing Leonardo- as mentioned i am
compiling a list of short
memories/testimonials for those of you who met or worked with him=send
me by email
at rmalina@alum.mit.edu

and please if you are aware of any colleagues in the YASMIN network who have
passed away please tell us

on a somber note, we think we need to re-invent how we remember our
colleagues who
are passing away during the pandemic= the major pandemics in the last
millenia were
often documented in books and paper and monuments- digital culture has
little memory
because digital media are unstable- we as an art,sci.tech community how can
we invent new ways to remember for the future ?

Roger malina

the details for the funeral are appended

Chers amis,
je vous remercie infiniment de vos messages et de vos marques d'amiti?
envers Frank qui m'ont beaucoup touch?e. Un dernier hommage lui sera
rendu, lors de ses obs?ques, au cimeti?re du P?re Lachaise, le mardi
28 juillet. Une c?r?monie d'adieu aura lieu ? 13h dans les salles du
Cr?matorium, 71 rue des Rondeaux, m?tro Gambetta (01 43 15 81 81) qui
commencera salle Montm?jean o? nous serions heureux que tous ceux qui
le souhaitent puissent s'exprimer. Vos t?moignages seront pr?cieux.
Vous comptiez beaucoup pour lui, vous ?tiez sa famille intellectuelle
et amicale privil?gi?e dont il parlait souvent. Beaucoup d'entre vous
ne pourront pas se d?placer mais ils pourront me faire parvenir
quelques lignes ? lire devant tous. La c?r?monie se poursuivra salle
Landowski juste ? c?t? dans un moment convivial. L'inhumation aura
lieu vers 15h. A cette occasion, les cendres d'Aline Dallier, d?c?d?e
le 5 f?vrier 2020, seront jointes au cercueil de Frank dans le caveau.
Croyez que je serai tr?s ?mue d'?voquer avec vous cet homme magnifique
qu'a ?t? Frank,
Fran?oise Py
Roger in Dallas, please phone/txt/ +15108532007 if urgent
http://yurisnightdfw.com/



------------------------------

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Thursday, July 16, 2020

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1

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THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DIGEST


Today's Topics:

1. hommages a Frank Popper (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:43:39 -0500
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] hommages a Frank Popper
Message-ID:
<mailman.1.1594835512.5243.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

yasminers
i have transferred these testimonies to frank popper who
just past away, and encourage those who knew and admired
him to share their memories here on the yasmin discussion list

his obituary by francoise py is at the end of this email

here is some of my memories

Frank Popper was a frequent visitor in our home in paris in
the 1950s and 1960s when i was a child- he would participate
in the chess evenings in our home, with frank and marjorie malina
and emerging kinetic artists but also other refugees in paris
from WWI

the discussions were lively- one of the points of argument was my father's
opinion that the contracts that commercial galleries in paris signed
with artists were exploitative
( eg the denise renee paris which championed the work of op art, kinetic art )
and that secondly the galleries had undue influence on the paris museum scene
which showed the work of artists who were marketed by the commercial galleries
over the independent artists who often did more amazing. At some point
the argument
became virulent as my father thought that popper was no longer an independent
intellectual but had sold out to the commercial art world-they broke
off relations

When my father frank malina died in 1981 I had to take over the running of the
Leonardo Journal. Frank Popper came to my fathers funeral and reached out to
me with an offer to help on Leonardo Journal again- we invited to
become an honorary
editor and he helped Leonardo Journal re-emerge and take wing again.

For many years we would meet in that cafe in the Louvre esplanade and discuss
the growing art,science and technology scene- he was enthusiastic about the
emerging digital arts and we published his seminal book
https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/technological-virtual-art

>From Technological to Virtual Art By Frank Popper

An influential and respected historian of art and technology analyzes
the development of immersive,
interactive new media art; includes detailed looks at the work of
such artists as Nam June Paik, John Maeda, and Jenny Holzer.

With his long history in the art world Popper was part of the Leonardo
'radar system' identifying emerging
artists and scientists and inviting them to submit articles for
leonardo, or other areas where he felt
artists were 'shifting the scene'

My final memory after he was unable to come out to paris cafes, was
that i exchanged
emails with him and phone calls up to his 101th birthday at the same
time that i was
working with students who i encouraged to read his work- yes he was a
100 and was
keen to know, and comment on, what young artists were doing that build
on his was of shaping
the narrative

with life expectancy growing in wealthier parts of the world, 100
years olds who cannot
leave their bed can teach and mentor 20 year olds, we as a community of practice
have to enable this trans-generational ferment and problem solving

at this time of pandemic we need to design new ways of remembering,
perhaps the art,
scince, technology community is well placed to re invent the funeral,
the obituary , the three
gun salute

thank you frank popper

I encourage yasminers who met or admired him to share with us their memories

roger malina

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Francesca Franco <iamfrafra@gmail.com>



Dear All,


Many thanks for your messages. I?m honoured to have known Frank and to
consider him one of my mentors. I have some very sweet memories about
our chats together in Paris when I was still a student. He was so kind
to write the endorsement of my book not long ago. I will never forget
his constant support and encouragement.


I?m on my way to Brittany. Please let me know about the funeral
arrangements when you can. I?d love to be there to say farewell to
dear Frank.


All my best wishes and love to you all,

Francesca


On Tue, 14 Jul 2020 at 18:56, Py Francoise <francoise.py@univ-paris8.fr> wrote:
>
> Ch?re Francesca,
> cher Franck,
> Je vous tr?s touch?e de votre attention et de vos marques d'amiti?. J'attends des nouvelles de Lugano pour les obs?ques de Frank ? Paris et vous les transmettrai imm?diatement,
> nous pensons tous tr?s fort ? lui,
> Fran?oise
>
>
> ________________________________
> De: "Franck Ancel" <ancelfranck@gmail.com>
> per
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 1:45 PM Franck Ancel <ancelfranck@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Bonsoir Fran?oise, cher Roger,
>>
>> Je garde un excellent souvenir de toute une soir?e avec lui et Aline dans un restaurant il y a maintenant 20 ans. J?irai avec grand plaisir lui rendre un dernier hommage au P?re Lachaise si je suis ? Paris en fonction de la date. Merci d'avance pour votre retour sur celle-ci.
>>
>> https://josephnechvatal.wordpress.com/2020/07/13/on-the-death-of-frank-popper/
>>
>> Amicalement,
>>
>> Franck Ancel
>>
>> --
>> psychanalyste sur rendez-vous 0652283939
>> 44 avenue de la R?publique F-75011 Paris
>> https://www.instagram.com/p/B9zQasDBe1w/
>>
>>
>> Le 13/07/2020 ? 15:38, roger malina a ?crit :
>>
>>
>> yasminers
>> some more sad news in these turbulent times
>>
>> Frank Popper has passed away. Popper was a giant in our
>> community, championing the work of art and technology artists,
>> beginning with kinetic art-
>>
>> if any of you knew and admired him, please do send a testimonial
>> to this yasmin list
>>
>> https://www.leonardo.info/contributor/5767/frank-popper
>>
>> Born in 1918 in Prague, Frank Popper lived in Vienna, London, Rome and Paris (since 1955). He studied at the Universities of London and Rome and Paris?s Sorbonne. In 1962, he became a member of the Institut d?Esthetique in Paris. In 1969, he joined the founders of the Art Department of the University of Paris VIII at Vincennes, where he headed the Visual Arts Department from 1970 to 1983. In 1976, he was appointed professor of aesthetics and the science of art, and in 1985 became professor emeritus at the same university. Popper is a member of the International Association of Art Critics and honorary editor of Leonardo. His book From Technological to Virtual Art was published by MIT Press in 2007
>>
>> Roger Malina
>>
>> From: Py Francoise <francoise.py@univ-paris8.fr>
>> Date: Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 8:02 AM
>> Subject: Frank Popper
>>
>>
>>
>> Chers amis,
>> je viens d'apprendre avec une immense tristesse la mort de notre cher Frank, survenue le dimanche 12 juillet, quelques jours apr?s son d?placement de Paris ? la maison de retraite de Lugano o? sa ni?ce avait souhait? l'installer. Ses obs?ques auront lieu au cimeti?re du P?re Lachaise o? il avait r?serv? un caveau pour Aline et lui. Le d?c?s ayant eu lieu en Suisse, la date et les modalit?s n'ont pas encore ?t? fix?es.
>> Jusqu'? ces derniers jours, Frank souhaitait que soit traduit en fran?ais son dernier volume publi? aux ?ditions MIT Press, FromTechnological to Virtual Art, dont il esp?rait participer activement ? une traduction adapt?e. Il y a beaucoup r?fl?chi pendant la p?riode de confinement.
>> Il a ?t? tr?s sensible ? tous vos t?moignages d'amiti?, tellement pr?cieux pour lui, qui ont illumin? ces derniers mois et dont il m'entretenait r?guli?rement. Je vous remercie vivement de tous vos encouragements ? son ?gard.
>> Nous partageons tous une grande peine de cette disparition et nous garderons tous un souvenir tr?s vivant de cet homme magnifique,
>> Fran?oise
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Yasmin_announcements@ntlab.gr
>> http://ntlab.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_announcements_ntlab.gr
>
>



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