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Thursday, November 28, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 20, Issue 1

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THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DIGEST


Today's Topics:

1. WWWWASP Discussion (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:24:33 +0100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion
Message-ID:
<mailman.0.1574850914.23215.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Dear Yasminers,

In line with the comments made by Diamond and his interest in inclusive
actions that address the social diversity that makes up the world we
know, we could see examples from many approaches:

-About the integration of other voices in artistic proposals, I can
offer you an example of success: since 2004, the Spanish artist Antoni
Abad has developed projects on different human groups in danger of
exclusion: megafone.net his work was recognized with a Golden Nica Ars
Electronica in 2006.

-the territory of videogames is also a critical area with stereotypes,
they propose new interactive narratives, new forms of representation, I
recommend:
"Gris" is a video game developed by the Spanish independent studio
Nomada Studio: https://nomada.studio/
"Perfect Woman" (Peter Lu & Lea Schonfelder, 2012-2016) the player's own
body is used as an interface to reflect on the role of women in society.
?Queer Power? (2004) inspired by Judith Butler's work and academic
conversations about stereotypical representations in games. The approach
taken by developers is crude: https://molleindustria.org/en/queer-power/
"The Red Strings Club" (Deconstructeam, 2018) addresses issues such as
sexism, racism or depression, and also try to promote the normalization
of LGBTIQ + characters in the world of video games.
"Privileged" (Zsolt Bartok, 2014), promotes social awareness about
global inequality.

-Videogames to make us think about what is happening in this world:
"September 12" and also "Madrid" http://www.newsgaming.com

-Video games useful in scientific areas as Guillermo mentioned, another
example:
"Foldit" allows to investigate diseases while playing ..
"Eyewire" (Sebastian Seung, 2012) intends to completely map the brain
neurons involved in vision-related processes.

In addition, several Theses have been defended on the video game at the
Faculty of Fine Arts, for example:
THE VIDEO GAME AS A TOOL FOR ARTISTIC PEDAGOGY:
https://eprints.ucm.es/24552/;
Art and video games: mechanics, aesthetics and game design in
contemporary creation practices: https://eprints.ucm.es/16680/1/T34020.pdf

Without a doubt, the concern expressed by Guillermo about the role of
cities and social participation, who will be the audience of art /
science practices, this group in Barcelona offers a definition that can
help us think: "Towards a multidisciplinary practice in which art and
citizen participation are a fundamental part of the way of doing science
". http://www.ub.edu/opensystems/about/

Curiosity, the search, to inhabit the continuous enigma that Roger
mentions, is perhaps what leads us to think about art / science
relations, beyond institutionalization and the agencies that limit
territories of knowledge.

Deleuze wrote: "The multiple must be done, but not constantly adding a
higher dimension, but, on the contrary, in the simplest way, a sobriety
force, at the level of the available dimensions, always 'n minus 1'
(Only then, by subtracting it, the one is part of the multiple.)
Subtract the only thing from the multiplicity to be constituted: write
to n-1 ".

(Excuse me, I wanted to send the mail, but I could not check the
translation ... speech is also a cultural construct)

--
Salom? Cuesta
Dir. Dpto. Escultura
Universitat Polit?cnica de Val?ncia

http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7898-8093

----- CONTACTO----
email: sacuesta@esc.upv.es
Tel: (34) 96 38 77 007 Ext. Int. 74801/14825
M?vil: 689 285 254
Fax:(34) 96 387 74 89
--------------------------
Universitat Polit?cnica de Val?ncia: http://www.upv.es
Departamento Escultura: http://www.upv.es/entidades/DE/index-es.html
Grupo de Investigaci?n Laboratorio de Luz: http://www.laboluz.com
M?ster Oficial en Artes Visuales y Multimedia:
http://www.artesvisualesymultimedia.com
http://www.facebook.com/masterAVM




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Sunday, November 24, 2019

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Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 19, Issue 3

Send Yasmin_discussions mailing list submissions to
yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr

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THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DIGEST


Today's Topics:

1. micro art science actions ( MASA) or a continuous conundrum,
conimbrum, quonundrum, conuncrum, and quadundrum (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:41:24 -0600
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] micro art science actions ( MASA) or a
continuous conundrum, conimbrum, quonundrum, conuncrum, and quadundrum
Message-ID:
<mailman.1.1574534814.5744.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

yasminers

I would like to pick up on Salome Cuesta proposal for 'micro-actions' in our
art-science communities of practice, and Diamond Berverly's idea of
a 'continous conundrum ( see below)

After 30 years as executive editor of leonardo, for the first time i am
now deeply engaged as a practitioner in art science collaborations. I
like to joke that astrophysics was so easy ! We all agreed on the
success criteria
and used the same concepts, methods and terminology. Plus we were very
well funded.

Thanks to Guillermo Munoz and colleagues at the University of
Valencia i received a PhD in Art
so I am now an artscience 'postdoc' with a phd in astrophysics and a
phd in art !

As James Leach pointed out in his Leonardo article (Extending
Contexts, Making Possibilities:
An Introduction to Evaluating the ProjectsJames Leach
https://cnrs.academia.edu/JamesLeach )
many many art science collaborations 'fail' in achieving their
original objectives. In our artscilab ( https://artscilab.atec.io/
)we have been arguing that there is a very big step between
inter/multi disciplinary collaborations and 'trans' disciplinary
collaborations which bridge very very different disciplines with very
very different personal and collective success criteria, and very very
different often
contractictory methods, concepts , terminologies- these are in Diamond
Berverly's term 'conundral;- see merriam webster

"The exact origin of conundrum isn't known with certainty. What is
known is that the word has been in use since the early 1600s, and that
it had various spellings, such as conimbrum, quonundrum,conuncrum, and
quadundrum, before the current spelling was finally established
sometime in the mid-17th century. One theory of origin suggests that
the word was coined as a parody of Latin by students at Oxford
University, where it appears to have enjoyed particular popularity in
its "word play" or "pun" sense. While the prevalent sense in this
century is that of the seemingly unanswerable question or problem,
frequently applied to heady dilemmas involving ethics, sociology, or
economics, the word is sometimes so loosely applied to anything
enigmatic as to be synonymous with puzzle or mystery."

One of the strategies we have been trying is "micro-projects" in
cuesta's terminology- we define them as
short duration ( weeks), projects which require no money or cash, only
gift exchange of time
and access to facilities, expertise etc ( the gift exchange vocabulary
comes from James Leach)

in the art sci lab we are approached continuously by 'stem'
professionals who want to collaborate.
Often they have antiquated ideas of what making art involves or
results in. Often they view
art as less primary in the 'tree of knowledge" ( ie in a branch not in
the trunk). Often they have
very different methods , concepts, terminology( we are trying to
develop transdisciplinary apprenticeships as part
of the approach). If a micro-project doesnt succeed, its likely that a
significant project wont in
our experience

I am delighted that a student research in our artscilab , Diamond
Beverly, has proposed:
"how do we go about including diverse voices and fostering
heterogeneous approaches instead unconsciously
excluding people from the conversation and thus creating a continuous
conundrum."

maybe the younger members of yasmin should weigh in, just as

from diamon berverly:I was very intrigued with your post last week
when you emphasized
educational spaces and work shop methodologies. I would like to know
how you define micro-actions. I also find such maker spaces and
hackathons a good step into the future of collaborative educational
space. A question that persists however is how these spaces find their
audience? And by this I mean how do we go about including diverse
voices and fostering heterogeneous approaches instead unconsciously
excluding people from the conversation and thus creating a continuous
conundrum.

so all latin students on yasmin go at it :
" One theory of origin of 'conundrum" suggests that the word was
coined as a parody of Latin by
students at Oxford University, where it appears to have enjoyed
particular popularity in its "word play"
or "pun" sense. While the prevalent sense in this century is that of
the seemingly unanswerable question
or problem, frequently applied to heady dilemmas involving ethics,
sociology, or economics, the word is sometimes so loosely applied to
anything enigmatic as to be synonymous with puzzle or mystery.

or maybe living in a continuous conundrum is a desirable state ?
certainly it is a state
that drives our artscience work

and HAPPY THANKSGIVING in the USA- though i always have misgiving about
giving thanks to our colonial ancestors who decimated the indian
populations !! there must be someone else to thank in our cultures !
Roger is almost in chicago 510-853-2007



------------------------------

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*************************************************

Saturday, November 23, 2019

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Friday, November 22, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 19, Issue 2

Send Yasmin_discussions mailing list submissions to
yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://ntlab.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
yasmin_discussions-request@ntlab.gr

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Yasmin_discussions digest..."


THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DIGEST


Today's Topics:

1. YASMIN response to salome cuesta (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
2. WWWWASP Discussion - Fourth Week (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 18:25:09 -0600
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] YASMIN response to salome cuesta
Message-ID:
<mailman.1.1574333281.14000.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

From: Beverly, Diamond Elizabeth <Diamond.Beverly@UTDallas.edu>



I would like to respond to Salome Cuesta's discussion response.



I was very intrigued with your post last week when you emphasized
educational spaces and work shop methodologies. I would like to know
how you define micro-actions. I also find such maker spaces and
hackathons a good step into the future of collaborative educational
space. A question that persists however is how these spaces find their
audience? And by this I mean how do we go about including diverse
voices and fostering heterogeneous approaches instead unconsciously
excluding people from the conversation and thus creating a continuous
conundrum.


Negative thoughts plague is self-conscious and effect how we proceed
throughout our days. To relieve the constant battle between my
consciousness the idea for my video game was born. My name is Diamond
Beverly and I am an artist, video game developer, and computer
programmer based in Dallas, Texas. Through individual and
collaborative projects, I discovered the power environmental
storytelling and transformative properties of a well-designed game. I
am interested in the intersections of culture, communication,
representation and narrative storytelling through the medium of
digital games. I have developed skills in computer programming, film
production and game development as a result of these personal and
academic interest.

I am currently working on a project that utilizes video games as a
medium to explore the relationship between negative thoughts and
positive affirmations. The motive of the game is to fight your
negative thoughts with positive affirmations in the style of a retro
fighting game. I plan to continue a career in the video game industry
and higher education. This game concept is based on my personal
practice I utilize regarding my mental health. I?ve always been
passionate about the way Video games brings and connects cultures and
conceptual ideas.

Portfolio -https://diamond-beverly.weebly.com/
LinkedIn -https://www.linkedin.com/in/diamond-beverly-181b56173


thank you for your time,
Diamond Beverly [Pronouns: she, her, hers]
Teaching Assistant and Graduate Student
University of Texas at Dallas



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:44:04 +1100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion - Fourth Week
Message-ID:
<mailman.0.1574394382.5744.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear Yasminers,

We are just running out our fourth week in the discussion, and we have
heated up our sharing slightly with contributions from Gustavo Schwartz and
Diamond Beverly.

On Sunday, and inspired by Jing Chen comments (lack of transdisciplinary
dialogues), I?ve been trying to trigger the scientists reaction, saying
that the need for this interdisciplinarity action is huge inside science,
just rounding the idea that our scientific methodologies are old ?items?
inside our actual world, which needs big changes related to huge
complexity.

Gustavo included more complexity to our actual discussion about the inner
nature of art/sci disciplines. From his view, it is not just that we can
compare art/sci as a traditional discipline. In this big network of
discipline relations we can find sub-types which return an expert knowledge
(art/sci neuroscience, for example) and others that are not focused in an
expert view, and returns a general overview. I think the last ones are the
ones that relate contexts, and may be are important keys to understand some
of our actual complexity (like for example climate change, that has been
discussed previously in Yasmin).

Finally, Diamond focus the attention in the definition of our
micro-actions, and the relation to the advent of some new spaces (maker
spaces, hackathons, ?). Diamond presented to us the use of the narratives
of the video games, and her gamming project relating negative thoughts and
positive affirmations. Video games, for sure, are new tools that are
currently being used both in science and art. From science, one very
interesting example has been ?quantum moves? (
https://www.scienceathome.org/games/quantum-moves/ ). In my opinion, new
spaces, new tools and new platforms are great opportunities, as these
relate our work with different narratives, and we have the duty to try to
find the symbols and the particularities inside these narratives. These
tools are great when trying to identify, study or just express the actual
complexity.

Our next week is our last week for sharing thoughts, and afterwards we will
try to summarize all the inputs that you have kindly sent here. So, please,
we will be more than happy to listen your thoughts. The aim of this
discussion is just share our visions of the art/sci scenarios, topics,
challenges, actors, and so on. There are many remaining topics, like for
example the role of the cities and the social participation in these
actions, the possibility to develop strong networks of art/sci practices
(like the one made by Leonardo), the difficulties when communicating
art/sci dynamics inside an ?academia? that do not forget its 19th century
structure (at least apparently), how to create a networked knowledge
alternative (with different kind of experts and hybrids) within a world
that has an specific understanding of productivity, or who is accessing to
the art/sci practices and educational resources. Who are and who will be
the art/sci teachers and the art/sci students?

I wish you a good weekend, and hope on Monday we can continue our
discussion with all your inputs and ideas.

Guillermo.


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Monday, November 18, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 19, Issue 1

Send Yasmin_discussions mailing list submissions to
yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DIGEST


Today's Topics:

1. why not ArtScience as an established area of practice,
research, and education? (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 19:00:51 +0100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] why not ArtScience as an established
area of practice, research, and education?
Message-ID:
<mailman.4.1574022550.23077.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi all

I would like to reply to Joao?s thoughts.

From my point of view, we should distinguished between general and specific ArtSci collaborations. In the last case, this kind of collaboration could become an established area of practice; let say: a discipline. This could be, for example, the case of visual artists collaborating with neuroscientists in problems related to visual perception. There are too many things to do in this field and this collaboration could last for decades. On the other hand, there are very general explorations of the borders between art and science that can hardly become a discipline due to its general character. Trying to fit this kind of exploration into a discipline could eventually fade its purpose.

Best,
G/

----------------------------------------
Dr. Gustavo A. Schwartz
Centro de F?sica de Materiales
Centro Mixto CSIC-UPV/EHU
-----------------------------------------

> Joao Silveira Introductory text
>
>
> As mentioned, there are some residency programs connecting artists and
> scientists around the world as well as more and more interactions inside
> the universities. However, ArtScience is usually a peripheral activity and
> still far from institutionalized activity. This opens the question: Should
> ArtSci be inside a ?silo?? On one hand, to be inside a silo could be
> prejudicial for the transdisciplinary philosophy and in the end, ArtSci
> could end just as another ?discipline?. On the other hand, we have in the
> contemporary history many examples of well-developed disciplines that were
> born from the fusion of other areas as Biochemistry (biology + chemistry);
> Astrophysics (Astronomy + Physics); Biophysics (biology + Physics);
> bioengineering (biology + engineering), etc. So, why not ArtScience as an
> established area of practice, research, and education?
>
>
> Joao Silveira
>
>



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Sunday, November 17, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3

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1. WWWWASP Discussion - Third week (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 11:16:11 +1100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion - Third week
Message-ID:
<mailman.2.1573942709.23077.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi all,

I would like to follow with the kind of ?strong statements? strategy, just
to, hopefully, heat it up our discussion.

I would like to add something following the direction from Salom?
contribution. I agree with Salome that biotechnology, or bioinformatics
has an intrinsic difference to the current Bioart, or , why not, a possible
Biohistory. In her words, ?comparing helps to understand?, but in the first
cases (Technology + Science; or Science + Science), we are developing
alternative technical skills. In the second cases (Science + Arts, or
Science + Humanities), yes, it is true that we are developing alternative
technical skills, which is totally true an interesting, but at the same
time we are including ?contexts?. We can discuss if the context is already
in the first ones (Nanobiotechnology, for example). I would say that, yes,
it is there, but in an implicit state. So, the second approach (we can say,
?second order interdisciplinarities?), context is recovered explicitly. So,
then, history, for example, becomes an important issue to be analized
inside a ?technical? framework (or esthetics, or poetics, or politics ?). I
do not like to use the word ?technical? here, because I m the kind of
person that strongly support that a pencil and a paper are great technical
tools, which push us to many interesting human actions. But, when we
arrange disciplines following this ?second order? approach, the recovering
of contextual links is made explicitly. This means with the participation
of our mutual self-awareness. And this is an important difference.

Following with Salome statement, which I think may be it has been expressed
by our invited discussants in different forms too. Why is this so
important? Well, it allows to follow our understanding guided by our
contextual relations, as then we are claiming that is not the technical
subject, is not only the concepts, are these inside the context, and the
context is very hybridized. As Roger claimed many times, this does not mean
that the specialized knowledge does not play a role. On the contrary,
specialized, and deep technical knowledge is helpful and it is needed (and
here we can define this as the ?first order interdsiciplinarities? =
nano-bio-thermodynamics), but the second order are helpful too re-linking
us to our contexts, and bridging our shared results and communities, and
hence helping to understand by comparation in different scales (orders).

I think this was kind of a shared though by all of us. However, here I
would like to put another statement. Usually, and it has been addressed a
couple of times in our discussion, this kind of interdisciplinary relations
is much more understood and much more followed inside the artistic and the
humanities communities. However, in my point of view, and due to the
explicit relation with the contextual information in both art and
humanities (which these disciplines are usually more open to be interested
in the science progress and the main science breakthroughs, or at least
this is my impresion), the main advantages when including these are for the
Science community. We, as a former students, and then as professional
researchers, are totally explicitly un-linked to history, to economics, to
philosophy, ?, We are not questioning ourselfs ?what does it mean
productivity??, we have totally removed from our day to day practice any
critical framework. Well, it is true that there are many scientist with
highly critical thinking, but it is not included in our standard education.
This is something that you can create by your own, in the best case. And
this does not mean that this independent or self-education is not
important, or even is not desired (of course, to have lateral and
peripheral educational resources sounds like very good), but the important
may be is that it is not understood as a necessity. However, we can find
everywhere how the meaning of science is becoming more and more closed. We
are approaching a point where science = applied science. Or even worse,
when science = industrial science. Excuse me, I m not saying that link
production, engage industry and entrepreneurship with science is bad at
all. I m just saying that when we pack the meaning of science in this very
restrictive definition, we are just developing a science which is smaller,
and poorer. So, to be honest, I think this is a very important battle for
the science community, and it is very surprising how we, as a community,
are the less engaged circle by far. May be we are the community that are
losing more when not do in it. As I said, I think actual arts and
humanities can develop a better equilibrium education from technical and
contextual frameworks.

Finally, and linking to the word ?necessity?, may be we can follow a link
to our Institutional Vs micro-actions analysis. With the risk to be
simplistic, ad sorry if these words are (remember, I m just trying to heat
it up), may be we can link our educational necessities to institutional
framework, in some extent. I m not saying that our micro-actions does not
represents a necessity. In fact, I do think. However, in words of Marina
Garces (Spanish Philosopher), we do need to recover the meaning of ?us?,
and may be we are just letting go away the institutional framework from
?us?. Could be nowadays we can recover our public institutions to work for
?us?. I know that this is kind of hyper-utopian, and may be even naive
statement, which is always dangerous. But I don t think why we should loose
the institutional spaces, as these spaces are public, and could be
represent a public track to recover our link to ?us? too. Sure, from the
ruins and shambles, but we all know many different spaces that are being
included in these institutional framework, and at the same time are linked
to our micro-negotiations reservoirs.

Hoping that we can re-start our discussing next week with all your voices
from all around the globe.

Cheers,

Guillermo.


------------------------------

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Tuesday, November 12, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 18, Issue 2

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Today's Topics:

1. reply to joel: is artscience a new discipline or do we need
other concepts (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
2. WWWWASP Discussion (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 12:20:19 -0600
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] reply to joel: is artscience a new
discipline or do we need other concepts
Message-ID:
<mailman.1.1573542783.4565.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

yasminers

i think i am replying to joel- for some reason the archive doesnt give
the email address of people who
post- please sign your posts !!
roger malina


the question raised by 'joel' is:

"""I've been dipping in and out of this discussion and it fascinates
me because it reflects an attempt to bring our ruminations on the
Art-Science connection from the abstract to the concrete, specifically
with respect to education. In that regard I would like to offer the
following based on my experiences.

There has been considerable talk about whether or not the Art-Science
connection could, or has, yielded a new discipline, much in the way
new disciplines have emerged in the past from the intersection of
other, more established areas of inquiry.""

my response to this:
so: is artscience a new emerging discipline or do we need a new
concept of how to substructure knowledge, and knowledge creating
institutions?

a) an easy point. Almost all human organisations are 'tree structured
hierarchies". There is typically one 'ceo' or 'president' of the
organisation, with deputies, and then various subdivisions (schools
and departments). There some discussion in the business world of
'horizontal organisations', the need for 'floating' employees etc

perhaps the last failed attempts are centered on creating schools of
'interdisciplinary studies' that started in the 1990s. Most of these
have disappeared or have failed to achieve the promised goals of their
founders.

perhaps one opportunity for new approaches to the problem of recurrent
problem of bridging disciplines is the new phase of non institinal or
place based learning, ie on line education. During the era of TV,
there were TV based universities which tended still to have discipline
based programs. With on line learning, and the emergence of'on line
certificates, perhaps an individual can 'aggregate' on line
certificates in a transdisciplinary way to create 'diplomas'. In our
artscilab at UTD through the HERMES project led by alex topete we will
start awarding certificates for 'transdisciplinary apprenticeships'
via EdX certificates.

in the meantime we all will continue to struggle, as people have for
centuries, to create intyer.mutli/transdisciplinary temporary
structures in hierarchical tree structure universities. There is no
best method for artscience, but hopefully many good ones.

a totally separate discussion to the institutional structuring of
knowledge creation industries are the
philosophica/ontological.epistemological approaches which need not
match institutional structuring of knowlege
except if you want to make a living doing it !!

J then goes on:
I've been involved in two such areas that have been "around" for
quite some time.

The first is computer animation and, more specifically, character
animation. When I teach character animation to computer science
students, I cover not only the mechanical, mathematical aspects of
animation, I also address the biology of humans, their skeletal
structure, how muscles control motion, etc. I also present students
with a discussion of physics and locomotion, and how the two are
related. Yet, in addition to these scientific underpinnings of
animation, I also address the aesthetic aspects of motion and
animation, such as color, lighting, composition, etc.

A second area that has emerged as of late is that of Digital Media,
which at my university is a combination of Art, Communications, and
Computer Science. This new major has a series of four courses that act
as the backbone for the degree. These four courses comprise topics
that arise at the intersection of Art, Communications and Computer
Science, and as such demonstrate how each of these "feeder"
disciplines feeds off each other in the creation of a new discipline.

I'd love to hear other, concrete examples from my fellow Yasminers!

my thoughts

indeed throughout history new areas of practice have 'emerged' by
combining several existing disciplines like your examples of digital
media or computer animation - indeed- in our ATEC school at UTDallas
we call this now 'animationx' and animation includes not only
character animation , but also data animation which in data science is
an emerging area of interest

my own example is that I myself got a PhD in astrophysics-- but course
in the 19th century this discipline did not exist- we had astronomy
and physics and after 50 years of squabling it became astrophysics-
though some universities still call it astronomy, and include physics
within the research methods of astronomy, and others call it physics
with a sub discipline of astrophysics depending on how the
institutional squabbling and turf wars were resolved ( see randall
collins 'sociology of philosophy' to understand the interplay betweeen
epsitemology and sociology.

thanks J-sorry i cant find your actual name-when you reply please sign
your email !

roger malina


------------------------------
Roger is in Dallas
whatsapp, eechat , messenger+1-510-853-2007 and +33680459447 in
europe.This email address for leonardo related work,
rmalina@alum.mit.edu use roger.malina@utdallas.edu for UTD work



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 08:36:27 +0100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion
Message-ID:
<mailman.2.1573546713.4565.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed



Dear Yasminers,

As Guillermo mentions, in our Visual and Multimedia Art Master's degree,
his? collaboration has always consisted in communicating complex
scientific? concepts to confront art students with knowledge that
escapes their language and the methods they dominate in their research.
We do not choose science popularization as a vehicle to get familiar
with these new concepts. On the contrary, Guillermo used the newest
science published papers. This introduces a relevant factor, the idea of
receiving first-hand information about complex and technical content.
All along these years I have used this strategy with experts in forensic
medicine, synthetic biology or bioinformatics and I could conclude that
comparing helps to understand. It also allows to relate the artistic
concerns with the scientific devices and concepts, generating multiple
disciplinary crosses such as bioart. However, I do not believe that this
final practice constitutes a new discipline such as biochemistry.

I agree with Roger in his statement on the hierarchies: the scientist
has the fundamental resources in the university (labs, expensive
infrastructure, human resources, etc.), although the artist develops his
teaching work in the university and his role as researcher / artist is
performed outside (atelier). Opening the doors of scientific
laboratories to artists should be an objective of the whole university
institution itself, since questioning from multiple perspectives is
beneficial to all; beyond publications in high impact journals and
though patents, much consideration in these directions is needed. To
what extent does research contribute to the changing relationship
between humans and world? Which are the social
implications?

Best wishes,

--
Salom? Cuesta
Dir. Dpto. Escultura
Universitat Polit?cnica de Val?ncia

http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7898-8093

----- CONTACTO----
email:sacuesta@esc.upv.es
Tel: (34) 96 38 77 007 Ext. Int. 74801/14825
M?vil: 689 285 254
Fax:(34) 96 387 74 89
--------------------------
Universitat Polit?cnica de Val?ncia:http://www.upv.es
Departamento Escultura:http://www.upv.es/entidades/DE/index-es.html
Grupo de Investigaci?n Laboratorio de Luz:http://www.laboluz.com
M?ster Oficial en Artes Visuales y Multimedia:
http://www.artesvisualesymultimedia.com
http://www.facebook.com/masterAVM



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Monday, November 11, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 18, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

1. WWWWASP Discussion (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
2. WWWWASP Discussion - Reply to Annick Bureaud 2?
(YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 11:22:22 +0800
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: "=?utf-8?B?eWFzbWluX2Rpc2N1c3Npb25zQG50bGFiLmdy?="
<yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion
Message-ID:
<mailman.6.1573406761.22026.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Jing (CJ) Chen, Professor of Arts,&nbsp;&nbsp;Associate Director of the Art and Cultural Innovation and Creativity (ACIC) Lab, Nanjing University.&nbsp;




Based at the School of Arts in Nanjing University, the Art and Cultural Innovation and Creativity (ACIC) Lab is pursuing to merge the gap between the arts/culture and science/technology and provide the hands-on opportunities for non-trained students from the different disciplines to work together and with experienced scientists, researchers, and technicians from universities, enterprises and institutes. We launched this project in 2017 and have organized a series of workshops on Virtual Reality, Artificial Intelligence, Service Design, Geographic Information System, and Text mining, etc. and more than 500 students have been taken the courses and started their projects.




The idea behind the lab is that we think students are potential scientists and artists without a fixed and stable indemnity of scientists or artists. They may work in different fields but with the scientist thinking, creative ability, artistic aesthetics, and digital literacy, which are embedded in the workshop, courses, seminars, and lectures designed by us. The lab plays the role of platform and coordination and provides the opportunity for students to try something new, get in touch with some person they want to know and experience things they never expected.




However, doing this in China or Chinese universities is not very easy. Firstly, we have a very strong discipline tradition so all the resources are distributed based on the disciplines. The lab is cross-disciplinary and requests the fund and faculties from multi-disciplines. It?s even harder for us to collaborate with scientists in our university than others. Secondly, the students we recruited are mostly from humanities rather than sciences and engineering which causes additional difficulties for teaching since humanities students don?t know much about the technology, software, and tools. We are adjusting our strategies all the time to find a better way to get students into the environment comfortably and confidently. Thirdly, the collaboration between us and scientists in China is still rare. It happens mostly at the individual level and hard to get funds supported. The biggest obstacle is the revaluation of the outcome. The two or three culture idea is widely accepted by scientists, artists/humanists, which make them don?t think it?s necessary to talk to each other. Recently because the AI booming in China, more scientists and artists notice the value of the combination of art and technology but there is still a big gap between the two sides. They don?t know how to talk to each other due to lacking understanding.




I have faith in young people but I also think what we do is important. If we can bridge the gap and provide more dialogue opportunities for artists and scientist then the young people would be easier to get understand and practice with two parts without fear and hesitation.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 13:09:48 +1100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion - Reply to Annick
Bureaud 2?
Message-ID:
<mailman.7.1573406824.22026.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I had the feeling that my last reply to Annick was slightly soft, in the
sense to propose a kind of balance between micro-actions and institutional
engagement. And this could be kind of good practice: equilibrium, balance,
dialogue, ... However, maybe in our highly conflicting present we should
try, or to push to harder statements. Let s see how it goes:

In the same direction of the re-designing science program, I think Art/Sci
institutionalization could serve as a framework to stop a possible
fake-science scenario. This is just entering into a deep political action,
although educational too. Nowadays, science research is governed by
excellence and elite criteria, and I m sure that the same is happening in
all research areas. So, we are quantifying our research validity by
rankings, impact factors, number of papers, ... We are just including
marketing and economical criteria into our science method, as for example
pay to publish, publish or perish, ... All of this is just re-defining the
meaning of science productivity, and indirectly could be is affecting the
self science core: our methods.

With our actual stability crisis (it is very hard nowadays to find a
permanent research position, ..., and being general, to ind a permanent
job) it is very difficult (may be even impossible, or just even
intentionally not possible) to not deviate our science objectives just to a
personal CV objectives, which in practice now is occupying most of our
careers time. Someone could say that this happened always, and in some
extent can be true. Not sure. But maybe nowadays is much more intense. You
can just check the medium age to be established in academia. > 40. But,
academia, ... this word is intriguing too. Does it mean nowadays anything?
So, may be now science is just personal company business? Isn't this what
entrepreneur means? What does it mean Academia today?

All these, for sure, is affecting to our methods, and research approaches.
Today it is much more relevant to publish a super high impact factor paper,
than to publish a relevant scientific result. And this is feed by our
market trajectory. One can argue that one (market) just feeds the second
(scientific result), as it happens in the housing market (the higher the
price, the higher the quality). However, in my point of view, we are very
close to just establish a new fake word here: fake science.

This can be a very long debate, but in my point of view the art/sci program
could modify, or maybe amplify, these frictions inside science. With
art/sci institutional support you can pull the flow in one direction, or
just in the opposite. Art/sci inside science can be understood just as
another marketing tool, just to visualize and sell in a more attractive
fashion our "personal-named-company" products, or, just in the other case,
serve as a stimulus to recover a different approach to define our science
productivity, or to recover it from the past.

In summary, Art/Sci institutional support could help for the science
activism, long term productivity and knowledge not market biased, to join
directions like open science, slow science, citizen science..., where may
be an old understanding of what science mean is trying to be preserved. In
essence, Art/Sci institutional support it can help not only to do better
science (via including higher technological ways to represent, visualize
and interpret data), but to preserve the sense of its own long term
productivity, where the outcomes are not easily visualized, and where
difference and diversity are necessary research items.

Of course this can be done via the micro-actions too, and maybe even more
intensely, or more effectively, as it is kind of conflicting social issue.
But for sure it could represent an opportunity window in this direction.
So, may be the balance approach is not bad at all.

Best wishes,

Guillermo.


------------------------------

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Friday, November 8, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 17, Issue 4

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1. Re: Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 17, Issue 3
(YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 13:38:46 +0000
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: "yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr" <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 17,
Issue 3
Message-ID:
<mailman.5.1573161950.22026.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I've been dipping in and out of this discussion and it fascinates me because it reflects an attempt to bring our ruminations on the Art-Science connection from the abstract to the concrete, specifically with respect to education. In that regard I would like to offer the following based on my experiences.

There has been considerable talk about whether or not the Art-Science connection could, or has, yielded a new discipline, much in the way new disciplines have emerged in the past from the intersection of other, more established areas of inquiry. I've been involved in two such areas that have been "around" for quite some time.

The first is computer animation and, more specifically, character animation. When I teach character animation to computer science students, I cover not only the mechanical, mathematical aspects of animation, I also address the biology of humans, their skeletal structure, how muscles control motion, etc. I also present students with a discussion of physics and locomotion, and how the two are related. Yet, in addition to these scientific underpinnings of animation, I also address the aesthetic aspects of motion and animation, such as color, lighting, composition, etc.

A second area that has emerged as of late is that of Digital Media, which at my university is a combination of Art, Communications, and Computer Science. This new major has a series of four courses that act as the backbone for the degree. These four courses comprise topics that arise at the intersection of Art, Communications and Computer Science, and as such demonstrate how each of these "feeder" disciplines feeds off each other in the creation of a new discipline.

I'd love to hear other, concrete examples from my fellow Yasminers!


------------------------------

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Thursday, November 7, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 17, Issue 3

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Today's Topics:

1. WWWWASP Disussion - Reply to Annick Bureaud (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 15:30:01 +1100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Disussion - Reply to Annick
Bureaud
Message-ID:
<mailman.1.1573076625.22026.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear Yasminers,

I think we are starting to heat up our discussion, with many interesting
points. Here I would like to focus an answer to some of the important
questions that Annick sent.

In the context of education in Art/Sci, Annick asked:

"What would we teach if we were teaching art-science? A methodology?"

I think here, and again, this depends so much on the micro-negociations
that we are actively building. However, these could complement the
institutional arrangements.

For example, and here Salom? Cuesta could help me to explain it in detail,
in Valencia, and inside an official Arts Master degree, it is included an
Art/Sci subject. Salome is leading the subject from several years ago, and
this is not focused to any particular action-example. In her first
introductory post she included a link to a time-line used in this subject.
Here I include it again, as I think it is important for this debate:

http://personales.upv.es/sacuesta/timeline/arteyciencia_avm.html

I m not sure if through this kind of subject is taught a methodology. May
be it is more related to a narrative. So, what are the links between us?
But this could be done not only with examples (bioart, nanoart, ...). It is
possible to include some conceptual ideas, which in many cases are used in
different fields, but with different approaches. I guess conceptual
narrative, and hence, philosophy, is an important context in these
educational programs.

At the same time, she invites scientists to participate in her lectures. I
ve been participating some years in the past, and the idea was just to
confront the art students with a science narration. Not to understand any
specific or particular field, not to popularize any detailed concept, just
to have access to a real science vocabulary. In my case I just pick up a
talk from a science workshop and then we circulated around the slides. This
was not helpful to understand the science behind, but was interesting to
activate questions about the technology, the methodology, the experiments,
the procedures, and even the challenges in a real daily science action. I
guess that this can be similar to an artists residence in a science lab,
but inside an educational and institutional space. So, not by a residence
award or selection, and just as a general educational program. And hence,
it is more related to who is accessing to these actions.

Following Annick questions:

"Why do we so much want that something like an artscience field comes into
being? an artscience discipline? Why do we want those creations to be in
universities ? Why
do we want to "institutionalize" everything?"

I think my answer goes in your answer direction: " to get the damn funding
'cause if
you don't wear a label and fit into a box it's kinda hard to get the
coins? ".

In my point of view, and as a personal experience, institutional art/sci
give me the possibility to include more context to my research. In my daily
work I do not have easy access to this kind of interactions. If we can
institutionalize these actions, it will be easier, more direct, and fluent
the inclusion of these activities. In another hand, the access to funding
will be larger and easier, and then we can do more and bigger actions.

Of course, we can still do it by the micro-action-negotiation way, which
requires extra time (is not included in our job tasks), is not recognized
as part of your job, and then the "two lives approach" is needed. But at
the same time is not recognized as research or is not even valued at all.
All we strongly support that these activities enhance the value of the
research (artistic or scientific), and hence we do need open the ways to
put in action these values. Maybe conferences, maybe exhibitions, maybe
papers, or residences, but all these needs support from institutions, and
not always money.

To finalize, I would like to explain a possible exchange between
micro-negotiations and institutional actions. As a science researcher, very
interested in the art/sci exchanges, the opening of the H2020 Featart FEAT
and STARTS institutional programs are of great help. I know that these
budgets are really small if we compare them with the general research
budgets, but as a scientist these opened to me the possibility to include a
real and institutional framework for these actions. For example, in my last
national science project, I included a section for an artist residence in a
science lab, and for a scientist residence in an art lab, and the inclusion
of this activity was justified by the European policies included in these
two H2020 projects. So, finally the project is accepted, and inside it is
included an small budget for this artist and scientist in residence. This
is for sure a micro-action, as it is just contextualized in a single and
personal project, but it is "helped" by the institutional "sensitivity".

Best wishes,

Guillermo.


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Wednesday, November 6, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2

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THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DIGEST


Today's Topics:

1. WWWWASP Discussion (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
2. wwwasp discussion; roger malina replies to cris feemantle
(YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 10:53:33 +0000
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion
Message-ID:
<mailman.0.1572993262.8994.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

>From Scotland
In relation to the 'silos' issue but from a 'micro' perspective of starting
a collaboration.

Even in starting a collaboration between three artists, dislocation can be
very important. I was the Director of the hosting arts organisation for
three artists who collaborated together and with a quarry company on the
project Place of Origin - a 'landscape as art' project on the rim of Kemnay
Quarry, Aberdeenshire
http://www.kemnay.info/community/places-of-interest/place-of-origin/?LMCL=cO4y8I
. The artists met for the first time at Aberdeen Airport - 15 miles from
the 'site'. It took 3 days to get to the site - at the suggestion of the
lead artist we went via Clava Cairns near Inverness, on to Ullapool and by
ferry to the Isle of Lewis, back to the mainland and down the Great Glen,
back to Kemnay. By the end of this, the three artists had a shared visual
language. They came to the site with an ongoing conversation of shared
interests.
More recently in working as Producer on Nil by Mouth: Art Science
Collaboration focused by Food and Sustainability,
https://www.creativecarbonscotland.com/resource/cultureshift-nil-mouth-culture-sustainable-food-production/
we used institutional meeting rooms, but we also 'retreated' to a farmhouse
in Strathdon and later another farmhouse outside Edinburgh. Being outside
the institutional setting (with no powerpoints) deepened the conversation.
Nil by Mouth was in fact a three way partnership because the artists both
engaged with scientists at Research Institutes and also with farmers
(organic, mainstream, crofting and allotment). This latter triple helix
broke down the dangerous binary of art science and also broke out of the
abstraction of 'disciplines'.
Chris


--
--
Chris Fremantle
Research Fellow and Lecturer in Contemporary Art Practice
Gray's School of Art
Robert Gordon University

c.fremantle@rgu.ac.uk / chris@fremantle.org
+44 (0) 7714 203016

https://orcid.org/0000-0002-5818-8208
http://ecoartscotland.net
http://chris.fremantle.org
https://www.creativecarbonscotland.com/resources/library/


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 16:43:47 -0600
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] wwwasp discussion; roger malina replies
to cris feemantle
Message-ID:
<mailman.0.1573000056.22026.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

colleagues
this is roger malina taking over from guillermo munoz the role
of moderator for the coming week

let me thank cris fremantle for his intervention:

More recently in working as Producer on Nil by Mouth: Art Science
Collaboration focused by Food and Sustainability,
https://www.creativecarbonscotland.com/resource/cultureshift-nil-mouth-culture-sustainable-food-production/
we used institutional meeting rooms, but we also 'retreated' to a farmhouse
in Strathdon and later another farmhouse outside Edinburgh. Being outside
the institutional setting (with no powerpoints) deepened the conversation.

Indeed let me add to this point about the many 'asymmetries' in art
science collaborations that can
create problems
this case mentioned by Cris the 'context' of the collaboration can
bias/cause frictoion
eg often scientists have full time appointment at universities and the
artists are 'visitors'-or
have unequal access to facilities ( in university scientists have
research labs where meetings
can be held, but most of our art professors have home studios and just
an office on campus.

the asymmetry of working context can subliminally induce a 'hierarchy"
that can bias the
collaboration

if future emails i would like to bring up additional asymettries ( eg
differences IP cultures)


Roger is in Dallas
whatsapp, eechat , messenger+1-510-853-2007 and +33680459447 in
europe.This email address for leonardo related work,
rmalina@alum.mit.edu use roger.malina@utdallas.edu for UTD work



------------------------------

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Tuesday, November 5, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 17, Issue 1

Send Yasmin_discussions mailing list submissions to
yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr

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THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DIGEST


Today's Topics:

1. WWWWASP Discussion. First week summary. (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
2. Re: WWWWASP Discussion (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
3. Re: WWWWASP Discussion (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 23:36:51 +1100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion. First week summary.
Message-ID:
<mailman.15.1572873269.1824.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear Yasminers,

We have completed our first discussion week, where the invited discussants
have sent us some of their thoughts in bits and pieces format, about the
present strategies of the art and science interaction. I would like to
summarize here some important statements from their interesting comments:

- As a first note, I would like to highlight that their comments
come from different research specializations, different cultures and
different geographical zones. This represents a self-contained exchange,
and I really would like to thank to all of them their words and
availability. Just this kind of sharing between borders, countries,
languages, and self-experiences, is an accomplished objective.



- Vicky Sowry, from Australia, started our discussion with very
interesting points. She addressed some of the peculiarities when
participating in art/sci residences. Being one of the fortunate
participants in this kind of residences, I know that Vicky?s words are very
important: ?Accidental and random connections can take a project in
entirely new directions. The other thing is that, if you know what the
outcomes are going to be at the outset ? our residencies are not for you?.
Her statement was kindly illustrated with some examples. I think this is
kind of crucial practice, because here we are not speaking about absence of
productivity. Instead, we are supporting and allowing the space for an
alternative conception of productivity. So, in these residences we are
opening new spaces for multiple creativity scenarios, where the official
disciplinary spaces are much more reticent to do it.



- Jadwiga Charzy?ska, from Poland, follow the discussion
introduction reviewing the exciting example of the ART+SCIENCE MEETING
project. She gives us the great opportunity to briefly walk through the
project, making special attention to the general culture connections. I
have felt very important her statement about social implications: ?Artists
and scientist are working together in matters of extending spectrum of
explorations ? their researches involve ethical and social problems.?
Etical and social problems can serve as a mutual framework for our
interdisciplinary collaborations. In many cases, these side (but always
present) implications are not clearly addressed in some of our research
expertise, and when we meet in this broad-spectrum relationship, we make it
more visible. In my opinion, our art/sci interaction helps to enhance our
societal commitment.



- Next, Gustavo Ariel Schwartz, from San Sebastian, in Spain, but
with main roots in Argentina, give us the opportunity to review some of the
challenges that he found when organizing these interdisciplinary forums. In
his case, he directs the ?Mestizajes program?, where science and writing
concepts and experiences are mixed to propose an alternative understanding
of creativity. However, he pointed towards a general problem in our
interdisciplinary spaces. The usual spaces for these collaborations are
mainly science research scenarios, where artists are engaged to the science
research, but it is much more difficult to see the opposite case. This can
be related to the point that Vicky address, ?What kind of productivity is
accepted in our disciplinary methodologies? ?Is this biased by any societal
requirement?



- On last Friday we had the opportunity to follow one step forward
in our discussion with Salome Cuesta, from Spain, but this time just in the
Mediterranean coastal side, Valencia. She used an interesting workshop in
Paris to emphasize in two key concepts: educational spaces (at different
stages) and working methodologies, as for example workshop oriented group
learning. In my opinion this is an example of how our micro-actions are
starting to re-design our methodologies, as all these new spaces that are
flouring nowadays (DIY garage, Hackathons, Citizen Science, Maker Spaces,
?) are getting accepted and in many cases included in the official
institutions. May be here the problems is the question of accessibility:
who is being able to participate in these new scenarios?



- Next step comes from ?pure? intermixed voice, Joao Silveira, from
Brasil, but currently working in France, with dancing and science
pharmacist background, highlighted an important statement. In his words:
?Should Art/Sci be inside a ?silo??? Here there is not a single answer, and
hopefully we will share our thoughts in the following weeks. So, is it
possible to define a new discipline which inner nature is
multidisciplinary? Did this happen before with other disciplines? Is this
easily happening today within our networked and collaborative disciplinary
maps?



In summary, in our first week we have opened some of the important topics
and interesting questions of this mixed and elastic field, which comes from
thoughts and words from different parts of the planet and different
personal experiences. But we still have two of our invited discussants
introductory posts to publish and read, which it would happen in our next
week.

At the same time, today I would like to invite to all Yasmin community to
start to send us your reflections and thoughts. This is an entirely open
debate, which it will be strongly enriched with comments from all possible
edges, spaces, cultures and disciplines.

Last but not least, I would like to remember to all of you the basic
protocol to send to us your contributions. You need to send an e-mail to
the following direction (: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr) with ?WWWWASP
Discussion? as subject. We would like to ask you to include the name to the
post author that you are commenting or answering at the beginning, and we
will be pleased if you can remove any previous text in your e-mail. This
will help a lot to the general text readability for our digest mode daily
review.

Best wishes,

Guillermo.


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 00:51:49 +0100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion
Message-ID:
<mailman.16.1572874044.1824.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Dear Yasminers,

I would like to jump on Joao statement. I believe this is a
crucial statement.

He writes : "Should ArtSci be inside a ?silo??
On one hand, to be inside a silo could be prejudicial for
the transdisciplinary philosoph. On the other hand, we have
in the contemporary history many examples of well-developed
disciplines that were born from the fusion of other areas as
Biochemistry (biology + chemistry)" and he lists several of
this "duo".

This relates to the question I am asking myself at the
moment: what would we teach if we were teaching art-science
? A methodology?
As far as I know in the various existing programmes, people
are not teaching artscience, they are teaching bioart,
physics and art, etc. = some specific scientific disciplines
in relation to art.

The thing is that neither "art" nor "science" is a
"discipline", both include many "disciplines" as Joao
himself points by listing several combined scientific
disciplines.

I would like to throw another ball in the discussion and to
everyone here: why do we so much want that something like an
artscience field comes into being? an artscience discipline?
Why do we want those creations to be in universities ? Why
do we want to "institutionalize" everything?
Could the answer just be: to get the damn funding 'cause if
you don't wear a label and fit into a box it's kinda hard to
get the coins?

I have so much questions ... but I am not even sure I am
allowed to post that early in the discussion!


Annick



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 15:09:49 +0100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion
Message-ID:
<mailman.18.1572909754.1824.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

That's an interesting point. It's possible that arts-science is not yet
established because the volume of putative value is not obvious to deciders;
in value we can put "papers and citations", "economical impact (university
fees, patents, industrial shift...)", "social impact", "cultural an
influence impact".
So: have you tried to create such department in your own university ? If it
failed, what was the dean arguments ?

Mathieu P

Le sam. 2 nov. 2019 ? 00:23, YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
a ?crit :

> Dear Yasminers,
>
> We follow one step forward in our first week introduction to our discussion
> topic. Today, Joao Silveira, from Brazil, send us some clues about his
> thoughts.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Guillermo.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Joao Silveira Introductory text
>
>
> As mentioned, there are some residency programs connecting artists and
> scientists around the world as well as more and more interactions inside
> the universities. However, ArtScience is usually a peripheral activity and
> still far from institutionalized activity. This opens the question: Should
> ArtSci be inside a ?silo?? On one hand, to be inside a silo could be
> prejudicial for the transdisciplinary philosophy and in the end, ArtSci
> could end just as another ?discipline?. On the other hand, we have in the
> contemporary history many examples of well-developed disciplines that were
> born from the fusion of other areas as Biochemistry (biology + chemistry);
> Astrophysics (Astronomy + Physics); Biophysics (biology + Physics);
> bioengineering (biology + engineering), etc. So, why not ArtScience as an
> established area of practice, research, and education?
>
>
> Joao Silveira
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
> http://ntlab.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr
>


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