the commentaries come with best intentions to be constructive. I believe we
are all here happy to discuss parts of your research/practice that you find
relevant to the topic and although this email thread can be thought of as
sort of a freestyle brainstorming, adding too many references to too many
projects without proper argumentation sooner or later turns on the "ad
filters." That's all. If the brainstorm turned a bit turbulent as you found
Ken's commentary obscure I hope Ken now helped clear the sky, moreover I
find his guidance useful to keep in mind. As I said before, at the very
point where categories of artistic vs. scientific research melt down there
are no manuals, and it is precisely this melting point that we are
exploring on this list, but in order to discuss it effectively, the
principles of scientific protocol remain instrumental. No doubt an
interesting discussion can develop from many parts of your practice given
proper arguments that we can examine and expand upon.
All in all, I encountered many interesting points of view here that
inspired many new ideas and challenged many old ones and I am thankful to
all participating in discussion and to the moderators for organizing it.
Best wishes,
Živa
On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 8:00 PM, xDxD.vs.xDxD <xdxd.vs.xdxd@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Dear Ken,
>
> If the highest value you can bring too any discussion is to describe what
> > you do, then I'm not sure why we are here on a list for art-science. Jeff
> > Koons describes what he does.
> >
>
> if you read the line below "describe what we do" it says: "... describe
> what we do, our motives and background research, how we formulate
> experiments, what are the results and impacts, what implications,
> difficulties, innovations,"
>
> so what we do is : describe what we do, describe our motives, describe the
> background research (which means previous studies/cases, or lack of
> previous studies/cases, or studies/cases which inspire us and how and/or
> how we try to reformulate them to try to go beyond them a little bit...),
> describe how we formulate experiments (which can be in the lab, but they
> can also happen in a performance, or in a city, or in another setting,
> according to a method, so that they can be performed again, etc, which
> includes the fact that we release all tools, software, technologies, data
> in input and output etc), describe the results, describe the impacts (what
> changed? what stayed the same? what was not "readable"? why? what next?),
> describe the difficulties, describe the innovations (what, if any, happened
> now that hadn't happened before? what have we done with it? what do we
> imagine that we can do with it? what do we try to do next with it?...)
>
>
> >
> > When you add to this such dimensions as formulating experiments,
> > describing results, considering difficulties, then description must rise
> to
> > the level of analysis. This, in turn, requires deeper description,
> > comparison, and if you also claim innovation, then you've got to
> > demonstrate what happened in the past. That is to say, when you make
> > scientific claims for your art or your approach to art, more is required
> > than a description of artistic practice.
> >
>
> so, with the previous paragraph I hope to have answered your doubt.
>
> I thought it was pretty clear even before, but evidently I was wrong.
>
> What I was really referring to by answering Ziva was the "self-promotion"
> thing. I have nothing wrong with it, and I figured, from what was being
> said, that even Ziva had nothing wrong with it. But, again, I think that it
> was important to communicate that describing an experiment, and its pre-
> and post- (see above), is more important than self-promotion.
>
>
>
> >
> > Without analysis, it is impossible to support other people's research.
> > Merely describing what one does assumes that what you do is innovative.
> > This may not be the case. That's why researchers work to identify the
> gaps
> > in the knowledge of the field prior to their contribution. Significant
> > innovation in uncommon. It is more likely to occur following serious
> > thinking and analysis.
> >
>
> of course we do that. as a matter of fact it is one of our priorities.
>
>
> all the best
> Salvatore
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Ken Friedman
> >
> > —snip—
> >
> > > We are practice-based.
> > >
> > > The highest value we can bring to any discussion is to describe what we
> > do,
> > > our motives and background research, how we formulate experiments,
> what
> > > are the results and impacts, what implications, difficulties,
> > innovations,
> > > etc appear when we perform such experiments, and hope that this is
> useful
> > > to give someone else new ideas, open up new possibilities, etc.
> > >
> > > In this, we also try to use art and practice as a platform, to support
> > > other people's research, innovations, critical stances, where they can
> > come
> > > together, inspire, be applied in the world, and also to engage people
> in
> > > ways which are effective, persistent, transformative.
> > >
> > > In a way, we "only" have our practice to bring into any discussion.
> Which
> > > is of course inspired and informed by other things.
> >
> > —snip—
> >
> >
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> --
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