Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Around Simulation II - Simulated Senses and the Un-Simulatable

...and the compelling/repelling novel,Perfume: The Story of a Murderer by Patrick Suskind...the force of the drive to embody the scent of another (in this case, often virgins...) by one who has no scent....a great/horrible read.

--- On Wed, 1/19/11, derek hales <hales.derek@gmail.com> wrote:

From: derek hales <hales.derek@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Around Simulation II - Simulated Senses and the Un-Simulatable
To: "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS" <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 11:10 PM

Dear Yasmin,

is the simulation of sense all we need for the real to become, in its
treatment as entirely rational,  *the*  simulation...

Derek

On 18 January 2011 18:03, Ennio Bertrand <enniobertrand@gmail.com> wrote:

> dear clarissa,
> about shent
> in 1996 I relized an installation to transmit perfumed photography by
> internet in 4 different places
> ennio bertrand
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 2:34 AM, Clarissa Ribeiro Pereira de Almeida <
> almeida.clarissa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And here, something about "computer-controlled olfactory displays" and
> > smell
> > simulation...
> >
> >
> > On "Proustian effects"
> >
> > We can experience odors that tap into emotionally charged memories. This
> > phenomenon has its roots in the olfactory system – some smells can
> trigger
> > memories of events that take place many years earlier. A phenomenon of
> > Involuntary
> > memory. A very famous mention in literature of this kind of sensorial
> event
> > in the Marcel Proust novel *In Search of Lost Time*, where the
> > narrator experiences
> > an awakening upon tasting a madeleine dipped in tea:
> >
> >
> >
> > "She sent out for one of those short, plump little cakes called petites
> > madeleines, which look as though they had been moulded in the fluted
> > scallop
> > of a pilgrim's shell. And soon, mechanically, weary after a dull day with
> > the prospect of a depressing morrow, I raised to my lips a spoonful of
> the
> > tea in which I had soaked a morsel of the cake. No sooner had the warm
> > liquid, and the crumbs with it, touched my palate than a shudder ran
> > through
> > my whole body, and I stopped, intent upon the extraordinary changes that
> > were taking place…at once the vicissitudes of life had become indifferent
> > to
> > me, its disasters innocuous, its brevity illusory […]"  (Marcel
> > Proust, *Remembrance
> > of Things Past, Volume 1: Swann's Way*. London: Chatto and Windus, 1922.)
> >
> >
> >
> > Recognizing *odors associated with meaningful places*:
> >
> > http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5406/amerjpsyc.123.3.0281
> >
> > MIT Neuroscientists Explain 'Proustian Effect' Of Small Details Attached
> To
> > Big Memories:
> >
> >
> http://chem.info/News/Feeds/2011/01/topics-plant-operations-mit-neuroscientists-explain-proustian-effect-of-sm/
> >
> > Projection-Based Olfactory Display with Nose Tracking
> > ISBN: 0-7803-8415-6
> > Most attempts to realize an olfactory display have involved capturing and
> > synthesizing the odor. This work focus on spatio-temporal control of odor
> > rather than synthesizing odor itself:
> > http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/VR.2004.1310054
> >
> >
> > <
> >
> http://chem.info/News/Feeds/2011/01/topics-plant-operations-mit-neuroscientists-explain-proustian-effect-of-sm/
> > >
> >
> > And here we can read about the *SubSmell System*:
> >
> > The idea of adding the SubSmell logo to the movie for describing the
> scent
> > of each event in the movie has been proposed to improve the current way
> of
> > seeing movies, which can perceive only pictures and sound. Using the
> > SubSmell, the audience can smell the movie. The audiences need a SubSmell
> > application to read a SubSmell and an olfactory display in order to
> release
> > scent.
> >
> > http://www.springerlink.com/content/p642p43x04n61567/
> >
> > A Thesis on "*Symbolic Olfactory Display*" exploring the problems and
> > possibilities of computer-controlled scent output.
> >
> > by Joseph Nathaniel Kaye
> >
> > S.B. Brain & Cognitive Science,
> >
> > Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1999
> >
> >
> http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~jofish/thesis/symbolic_olfactory_display.html<http://alumni.media.mit.edu/%7Ejofish/thesis/symbolic_olfactory_display.html>
> <
> http://alumni.media.mit.edu/%7Ejofish/thesis/symbolic_olfactory_display.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Clarissa Ribeiro
> >
> >
> > 2011/1/17 Clarissa Ribeiro Pereira de Almeida <
> almeida.clarissa@gmail.com>
> >
> > > … "So what is un- un-simulatable? And why?"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Here, just an instantaneous free writing exercise around the questions
> I
> > > want to share:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *"A moist media pulp fiction (or an escape attempt from the
> > simulatable)"*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A datacloud was fluctuating in a datasky. Radio waves were *flowing
> > by*slowly and dancing and shaking the cloud waves-particles. For a
> databeing
> > > who was observing the system, the scale was macro; the time was
> complex;
> > the
> > > sun was shining, as unusual. The cloud was so excited that was about to
> > rain
> > > and give birth to a moist context that could be the beginning of a new
> > > reality in a system of realities. Escaping from this about to born
> > reality,
> > > the moist nature of the rain was just a temporary sensorial illusion of
> > the
> > > databeing who was vibrating as the radio waves *pervase* its structure
> –
> > "
> > > *Take it as it comes /Specialize in having fun*". Suddenly, in an
> > > unpredictable instant, here comes the rain. By maters of the
> observation,
> > > the soft rain becomes a datapool where one can quantum jumping and meet
> a
> > > myriad of multiple selves. Entangled delicate un-simulatable reality.
> > Here
> > > comes the sun. It's all right!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Clarissa Ribeiro
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2011/1/17 Pier Luigi Capucci <plc@noemalab.org>
> > >
> > > Dear Yasminers,
> > >>
> > >> in this second discussion about the simulation issues the topics (the
> > >> un-simulatable and the simulation of the senses) are very different,
> > >> although related. In the remote and mediated communication some senses
> > we
> > >> normally use and that are very important in our everyday's life - like
> > smell
> > >> and touch - simply do not pass, they are not effective, are useless.
> > While
> > >> the simulation hugely involves the sight and the hear, which are the
> so
> > >> called "superior senses", all the other sensory information is dropped
> > out.
> > >>
> > >> Asimple information about the chemical senses:
> > >> http://www.slideshare.net/lwolberg/chemical-senses-smell-and-taste
> > >>
> > >> Many times we have heard about the need of restructuring and
> redefining
> > >> the communication, a critique about "balancing" and discussing the
> > >> communication's issues. Many important international events (like the
> > almost
> > >> concurrent Transmediale) seem devoted to the ethical issues of the
> > >> communication. But maybe the problem is at a more general level, on
> the
> > fact
> > >> that from a sensory viewpoint the remote and mediated communication is
> > >> poorer than the direct one because drops out an important part of the
> > way we
> > >> "get in touch" with each other. Hence we must admit we accepted to
> > >> communicate more rapidly, over greater distance, in an increasingly
> > >> affordable and economic way, but in exchange for an impoverished
> > >> communication.
> > >>
> > >> On the other side, in a world where the information is extensively
> > >> simulated by the mass media and the new media - a topic debated in our
> > first
> > >> discussion last year in Yasmin - is there anything which can't enter
> the
> > >> realm of simulation, which can't be simulated, hence reduced - since
> the
> > >> simulation is always a reduction of the phenomenon which is being
> > simulated?
> > >> So what is un-simultable? And why?
> > >>
> > >> What are the artist doing in this direction?
> > >>
> > >> Some more info later!
> > >>
> > >> Thank you and best,
> > >>
> > >> Pier Luigi
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Pier Luigi Capucci
> > >> e-mail: plc@noemalab.org
> > >> web: http://www.noemalab.org/plc/plc.html
> > >> skype: plcapucci
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> > >> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> > >> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> > >>
> > >> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
> > >>
> > >> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
> > to.
> > >> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
> name,
> > and
> > >> password in the fields found further down the page.
> > >>
> > >> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> enter
> > >> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click
> on
> > the
> > >> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
> > >>
> > >> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> "Set
> > >> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> > Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> > http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> >
> > Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
> >
> > HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to.
> > In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name,
> and
> > password in the fields found further down the page.
> >
> > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
> > your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on
> the
> > unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
> >
> > HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
> > Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *we-are-making-digital-art.com*
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to.
> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
> password in the fields found further down the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.

HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").

HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.

HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").

HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Around Simulation II - Simulated Senses and the Un-Simulatable

Dear Clarissa,

thank you for your post. The simulation/communication of odours has been a longtime wish, maybe since the invention of the (partially) synthetic perfumes by Guerlain in the XIX Century. Remaining in the XX Century, and especially in the end of the Nineties, we should remember the olfactory cinema.

Here a minimal history:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/115323.html

And some other info:
http://www.philosophypress.co.uk/?p=71

Some movies from tha era were:
Carlo Lizzani, "Behind the Great Wall" (1959); Jack Cardiff, "Scent of Mystery" (1960).
Their sentence was: "First they moved (1895)! Then they talked (1927)! Now they smell!" But it was a commercial and industrial failure which involved some producers (like Mike Todd Jr.) and companies.

More recently two olfactory movies were directed, but with different integration with the olfactory information:
John Waters, "Polyester" (1981); Luc Besson, "Le Grand Bleu" (1989). In the first in some film sequences you had to scratch and sniff some numbered areas on a cardboard when the numbers appeared on the screen (really funny, I have some of them and the odours are still preserved); while the second movie instead is totally set in a marine environment, so the persistence of the olfactory information was not a problem.

In 1999 the american company Digiscents tryed to give a smell to computer information with its Ismell Personal Scent Synthesizer
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISmell and http://www.scribd.com/doc/29177062/i-smell-technology ), a sort of box which connected to a personal computer via USB or serial port and was designed to emit a smell when a user visited a web site or opened an email. In 2006, the iSmell was named one of the "25 Worst Tech Products of All Time" by PC World Magazine.

Indee it is interesting that, although all the failures, there are people and companies that periodically presents projects involving the smell. In one way this enhances the fact the smell is a very important sense in the human life and communication; on the other side all the failures show we have not still understood how this sense and the olfactory communication work.

Cheeers :-)

Pier Luigi

Il giorno 18/gen/2011, alle ore 02.34, Clarissa Ribeiro Pereira de Almeida ha scritto:

> And here, something about "computer-controlled olfactory displays" and smell
> simulation...
>
>
> On "Proustian effects"
>
> We can experience odors that tap into emotionally charged memories. This
> phenomenon has its roots in the olfactory system – some smells can trigger
> memories of events that take place many years earlier. A phenomenon of
> Involuntary
> memory. A very famous mention in literature of this kind of sensorial event
> in the Marcel Proust novel *In Search of Lost Time*, where the
> narrator experiences
> an awakening upon tasting a madeleine dipped in tea:
>
>
>
> "She sent out for one of those short, plump little cakes called petites
> madeleines, which look as though they had been moulded in the fluted scallop
> of a pilgrim's shell. And soon, mechanically, weary after a dull day with
> the prospect of a depressing morrow, I raised to my lips a spoonful of the
> tea in which I had soaked a morsel of the cake. No sooner had the warm
> liquid, and the crumbs with it, touched my palate than a shudder ran through
> my whole body, and I stopped, intent upon the extraordinary changes that
> were taking place…at once the vicissitudes of life had become indifferent to
> me, its disasters innocuous, its brevity illusory […]" (Marcel
> Proust, *Remembrance
> of Things Past, Volume 1: Swann's Way*. London: Chatto and Windus, 1922.)
>
>
>
> Recognizing *odors associated with meaningful places*:
>
> http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5406/amerjpsyc.123.3.0281
>
> MIT Neuroscientists Explain 'Proustian Effect' Of Small Details Attached To
> Big Memories:
> http://chem.info/News/Feeds/2011/01/topics-plant-operations-mit-neuroscientists-explain-proustian-effect-of-sm/
>
> Projection-Based Olfactory Display with Nose Tracking
> ISBN: 0-7803-8415-6
> Most attempts to realize an olfactory display have involved capturing and
> synthesizing the odor. This work focus on spatio-temporal control of odor
> rather than synthesizing odor itself:
> http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/VR.2004.1310054
>
>
> <http://chem.info/News/Feeds/2011/01/topics-plant-operations-mit-neuroscientists-explain-proustian-effect-of-sm/>
>
> And here we can read about the *SubSmell System*:
>
> The idea of adding the SubSmell logo to the movie for describing the scent
> of each event in the movie has been proposed to improve the current way of
> seeing movies, which can perceive only pictures and sound. Using the
> SubSmell, the audience can smell the movie. The audiences need a SubSmell
> application to read a SubSmell and an olfactory display in order to release
> scent.
>
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/p642p43x04n61567/
>
> A Thesis on "*Symbolic Olfactory Display*" exploring the problems and
> possibilities of computer-controlled scent output.
>
> by Joseph Nathaniel Kaye
>
> S.B. Brain & Cognitive Science,
>
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1999
>
> http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~jofish/thesis/symbolic_olfactory_display.html
>
>
> Clarissa Ribeiro
--
Pier Luigi Capucci
e-mail: plc@noemalab.org
web: http://www.noemalab.org/plc/plc.html
skype: plcapucci
--
Pier Luigi Capucci
e-mail: plc@noemalab.org
web: http://www.noemalab.org/plc/plc.html
skype: plcapucci

_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.

HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").

HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Around Simulation II - Simulated Senses and the Un-Simulatable

Dear Yasmin,

is the simulation of sense all we need for the real to become, in its
treatment as entirely rational, *the* simulation...

Derek

On 18 January 2011 18:03, Ennio Bertrand <enniobertrand@gmail.com> wrote:

> dear clarissa,
> about shent
> in 1996 I relized an installation to transmit perfumed photography by
> internet in 4 different places
> ennio bertrand
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 2:34 AM, Clarissa Ribeiro Pereira de Almeida <
> almeida.clarissa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And here, something about "computer-controlled olfactory displays" and
> > smell
> > simulation...
> >
> >
> > On "Proustian effects"
> >
> > We can experience odors that tap into emotionally charged memories. This
> > phenomenon has its roots in the olfactory system – some smells can
> trigger
> > memories of events that take place many years earlier. A phenomenon of
> > Involuntary
> > memory. A very famous mention in literature of this kind of sensorial
> event
> > in the Marcel Proust novel *In Search of Lost Time*, where the
> > narrator experiences
> > an awakening upon tasting a madeleine dipped in tea:
> >
> >
> >
> > "She sent out for one of those short, plump little cakes called petites
> > madeleines, which look as though they had been moulded in the fluted
> > scallop
> > of a pilgrim's shell. And soon, mechanically, weary after a dull day with
> > the prospect of a depressing morrow, I raised to my lips a spoonful of
> the
> > tea in which I had soaked a morsel of the cake. No sooner had the warm
> > liquid, and the crumbs with it, touched my palate than a shudder ran
> > through
> > my whole body, and I stopped, intent upon the extraordinary changes that
> > were taking place…at once the vicissitudes of life had become indifferent
> > to
> > me, its disasters innocuous, its brevity illusory […]" (Marcel
> > Proust, *Remembrance
> > of Things Past, Volume 1: Swann's Way*. London: Chatto and Windus, 1922.)
> >
> >
> >
> > Recognizing *odors associated with meaningful places*:
> >
> > http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5406/amerjpsyc.123.3.0281
> >
> > MIT Neuroscientists Explain 'Proustian Effect' Of Small Details Attached
> To
> > Big Memories:
> >
> >
> http://chem.info/News/Feeds/2011/01/topics-plant-operations-mit-neuroscientists-explain-proustian-effect-of-sm/
> >
> > Projection-Based Olfactory Display with Nose Tracking
> > ISBN: 0-7803-8415-6
> > Most attempts to realize an olfactory display have involved capturing and
> > synthesizing the odor. This work focus on spatio-temporal control of odor
> > rather than synthesizing odor itself:
> > http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/VR.2004.1310054
> >
> >
> > <
> >
> http://chem.info/News/Feeds/2011/01/topics-plant-operations-mit-neuroscientists-explain-proustian-effect-of-sm/
> > >
> >
> > And here we can read about the *SubSmell System*:
> >
> > The idea of adding the SubSmell logo to the movie for describing the
> scent
> > of each event in the movie has been proposed to improve the current way
> of
> > seeing movies, which can perceive only pictures and sound. Using the
> > SubSmell, the audience can smell the movie. The audiences need a SubSmell
> > application to read a SubSmell and an olfactory display in order to
> release
> > scent.
> >
> > http://www.springerlink.com/content/p642p43x04n61567/
> >
> > A Thesis on "*Symbolic Olfactory Display*" exploring the problems and
> > possibilities of computer-controlled scent output.
> >
> > by Joseph Nathaniel Kaye
> >
> > S.B. Brain & Cognitive Science,
> >
> > Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1999
> >
> >
> http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~jofish/thesis/symbolic_olfactory_display.html<http://alumni.media.mit.edu/%7Ejofish/thesis/symbolic_olfactory_display.html>
> <
> http://alumni.media.mit.edu/%7Ejofish/thesis/symbolic_olfactory_display.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Clarissa Ribeiro
> >
> >
> > 2011/1/17 Clarissa Ribeiro Pereira de Almeida <
> almeida.clarissa@gmail.com>
> >
> > > … "So what is un- un-simulatable? And why?"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Here, just an instantaneous free writing exercise around the questions
> I
> > > want to share:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *"A moist media pulp fiction (or an escape attempt from the
> > simulatable)"*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A datacloud was fluctuating in a datasky. Radio waves were *flowing
> > by*slowly and dancing and shaking the cloud waves-particles. For a
> databeing
> > > who was observing the system, the scale was macro; the time was
> complex;
> > the
> > > sun was shining, as unusual. The cloud was so excited that was about to
> > rain
> > > and give birth to a moist context that could be the beginning of a new
> > > reality in a system of realities. Escaping from this about to born
> > reality,
> > > the moist nature of the rain was just a temporary sensorial illusion of
> > the
> > > databeing who was vibrating as the radio waves *pervase* its structure
> –
> > "
> > > *Take it as it comes /Specialize in having fun*". Suddenly, in an
> > > unpredictable instant, here comes the rain. By maters of the
> observation,
> > > the soft rain becomes a datapool where one can quantum jumping and meet
> a
> > > myriad of multiple selves. Entangled delicate un-simulatable reality.
> > Here
> > > comes the sun. It's all right!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Clarissa Ribeiro
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2011/1/17 Pier Luigi Capucci <plc@noemalab.org>
> > >
> > > Dear Yasminers,
> > >>
> > >> in this second discussion about the simulation issues the topics (the
> > >> un-simulatable and the simulation of the senses) are very different,
> > >> although related. In the remote and mediated communication some senses
> > we
> > >> normally use and that are very important in our everyday's life - like
> > smell
> > >> and touch - simply do not pass, they are not effective, are useless.
> > While
> > >> the simulation hugely involves the sight and the hear, which are the
> so
> > >> called "superior senses", all the other sensory information is dropped
> > out.
> > >>
> > >> Asimple information about the chemical senses:
> > >> http://www.slideshare.net/lwolberg/chemical-senses-smell-and-taste
> > >>
> > >> Many times we have heard about the need of restructuring and
> redefining
> > >> the communication, a critique about "balancing" and discussing the
> > >> communication's issues. Many important international events (like the
> > almost
> > >> concurrent Transmediale) seem devoted to the ethical issues of the
> > >> communication. But maybe the problem is at a more general level, on
> the
> > fact
> > >> that from a sensory viewpoint the remote and mediated communication is
> > >> poorer than the direct one because drops out an important part of the
> > way we
> > >> "get in touch" with each other. Hence we must admit we accepted to
> > >> communicate more rapidly, over greater distance, in an increasingly
> > >> affordable and economic way, but in exchange for an impoverished
> > >> communication.
> > >>
> > >> On the other side, in a world where the information is extensively
> > >> simulated by the mass media and the new media - a topic debated in our
> > first
> > >> discussion last year in Yasmin - is there anything which can't enter
> the
> > >> realm of simulation, which can't be simulated, hence reduced - since
> the
> > >> simulation is always a reduction of the phenomenon which is being
> > simulated?
> > >> So what is un-simultable? And why?
> > >>
> > >> What are the artist doing in this direction?
> > >>
> > >> Some more info later!
> > >>
> > >> Thank you and best,
> > >>
> > >> Pier Luigi
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Pier Luigi Capucci
> > >> e-mail: plc@noemalab.org
> > >> web: http://www.noemalab.org/plc/plc.html
> > >> skype: plcapucci
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> > >> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> > >> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> > >>
> > >> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
> > >>
> > >> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
> > to.
> > >> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
> name,
> > and
> > >> password in the fields found further down the page.
> > >>
> > >> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> enter
> > >> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click
> on
> > the
> > >> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
> > >>
> > >> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> "Set
> > >> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> > Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> > http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> >
> > Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
> >
> > HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to.
> > In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name,
> and
> > password in the fields found further down the page.
> >
> > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
> > your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on
> the
> > unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
> >
> > HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
> > Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *we-are-making-digital-art.com*
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to.
> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
> password in the fields found further down the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.

HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").

HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Around Simulation II - Simulating 'Sixth Senses'

Dear Joshua,

Thanks very much for your thoughts!

"We can use EEG to intentionally activate an actuator that moves a body at a
distance, and so experience some sense of telekinesis that may seem supernatural
if we are unaware of the underlying mechanisms, if we do not have a "natural"
model of what is happening --we may generate/experience a supernatural model.I
am presently developing this technology to simulate the evocation of a spirit
into an artificial body (robot)."

please say more about this!

Joshua, you also wrote:

"This I suppose relates to your comment about humans sensing each other in a
room, e.g., you may have a "feeling" about someone which (by this model) means
you are processing information about that person, below your conscious
threshold. The difference between that and how computers communicate at a
distance is that computers do not yet have a conscious threshold in this sense;
the computer does not have a (self-)reflective gaze and cannot (genuinely) say,
"I feel something is good/bad about this situation, although I cannot say [i.e.
infer from available data] why I feel this way."

Indeed, intution has been said to be proven as something that can be trained
(and trained wrongly). Sadly I remember this only from a science TV programme
and have to reference at hand. But perhaps we are not that far off of simulating
intuition (in human robotic relations) as we might think? As new technologies
are being developed. Sensing the other persons emotion comes from face
recognition of emotions, muscle tensions, right? TU delft Robotics department
is currently working on natural tracking, meaning no black and white markers
needed anymore. Perhaps soon with facerecognition technology, it will not be so
hard. From there, something like 'common sense' ;-) (a very important sense?)
might take place. Calculating if a person shows 'angry muscles', holding a knife
high with raised pulse...might a robot not think: % 'bad'? A random percentage
based on data, simulating common sense, simulating a sense of empathy? In a way
it does not matter how much % is chosen, as one will 'learn' after that again to
make a new %, thus determining the 'character' of the robot. Results that end
often in the negative (below 50%) or in the positive (above 50%).

For instance robot makes a random guess: Bad = 75% > 'ask are you ok?'. I mean ,
is that not a question we ask, because we are taught to ask it? Do we need
consciousness for that? In that sense the '%' itself might be a form of robotic
qualia? Ergo, how do we know if one robots calculation to 75% is the same as
another robot's calculation that ends in 75%? And is the calculation itself a
form of 'sense experience' (for the Robots)?

I might be trailing too far here, but I'm interested in how thinking in % and
adding a form of duality (%hot, %cold, good bad) could simulate our senses and
perceptions.

PS Your comments reminded me of the magic balls that can guess your thoughts,
perhaps I might integrate that low technique in an artistic narrative in a way
that involves the wearer of the digital 'LSD'...hmm.

That magic trick the computer does is the first and only one I actually know
how to do, learned it when I was about 9...its about the maths...:)

Real nice of you to bring magic into the discussion in general. I actually
thought about magic for my project before in a different context, I wanted a
magician as a consultant, but more to talk to about how to divert attention to
compensate with slow rendering of video processing...

Regards,

Jennifer

________________________________
From: Joshua Madara <jamadara@gmail.com>
To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
Sent: Tue, January 18, 2011 4:50:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Around Simulation II - Simulated Senses and
the Un-Simulatable

Jennifer,

You ask some questions of interest to me, as my own interest in
simulation is in engineering machines that _do_ magic (in the
ritual/paranormal/supernatural sense, although there is some overlap
with legerdemain and such). We can readily simulate many of the active
behaviors of magic (many rituals can be expressed algorithmically),
but how to simulate the states that those actions are intended to
invoke and evoke?

The trouble I see with simulating telepathy is of having a model of
how telepathy works. But it may do to realize that the experience of
telepathy as anomalous cognition or communication, is anomalous to an
observer. When a mentalist appears to read your mind by studying
various clues that you are unaware of, she appears to have some
uncanny access to your thoughts. That is, in a sense, a simulation (of
something truly uncanny, if such a thing exists), and it applies as
well to computer programs that seem to read your mind (e.g.
http://www.cs4fn.org/mathemagic/magicshuffles/).

The situation is similar with EEG technologies such as the Emotiv
EPOC, NeuroSky/Mattel Mindflex. We can use EEG to intentionally
activate an actuator that moves a body at a distance, and so
experience some sense of telekinesis that may seem supernatural if we
are unaware of the underlying mechanisms, if we do not have a
"natural" model of what is happening -- we may generate/experience a
supernatural model. I am presently developing this technology to
simulate the evocation of a spirit into an artificial body (robot).

Getting back to telepathy, it is possible that what we experience as
tele-pathy (emotions over a distance?) and intuition is
sub/unconscious nervous activity, in which case the more we learn
about such activity, the better we should be able to simulate it. We
may imagine a robot that processes my subtle body "language" in such
as way that it seems to be able to "read" me, to intuit my state, my
intentions, etc. This I suppose relates to your comment about humans
sensing each other in a room, e.g., you may have a "feeling" about
someone which (by this model) means you are processing information
about that person, below your conscious threshold. The difference
between that and how computers communicate at a distance is that
computers do not yet have a conscious threshold in this sense; the
computer does not have a (self-)reflective gaze and cannot (genuinely)
say, "I feel something is good/bad about this situation, although I
cannot say [i.e. infer from available data] why I feel this way."

Sincerely,
Joshua Madara

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Jennifer Kanary Nikolov(a)
<jenniferkanary@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> Hope you are doing well. Looking forward to another wonderful discussion!
Every
> time we think something cannot be simulated, it turns out that maybe we
> can...so what is un-simulatable now? Imagination? Intuition?
>
>
> As we await the first reactions, let me put forward my personal questions as
an
> opening teaser that you are free to ignore if in the meantime other
interesting
> things have been posted :)
>
>
> Today I spent three hours in a meeting with people who have experience with
> hallucinations and delusions, diagnosed as psychotic or schizophrenic, as you
> might remember, as an artist I am trying to simulate the subjective experience
> of this extreme mental state with a kind of Digital LSD...here the sense of
> self, sense of time and space, and sense of reality play an important role,
but
> shall we consider such senses in this discussion?
>
> One of the conclusions of the advisers who were present, was that I should aim
> to simulate Telepathy (the idea that you can insert thoughts into others and
> that they can do that to you). A phenomenon considered as a key symptom. In
> psychosis one often feels a connection to the world, and that all information
> comes in at a high speed on a kind of wired network. Now I ask myself and put
> this question forward to you. How might we simulate a so called 'six sense'
>such
> as Telepathy?
>
>
> And another murmur....computers can read the mind of other computers...and
> transfer over a distance. How is remote sensing by computers different than
>that
> of humans sensing each other in a room?
>
>
> Oh, and one more reference, there is a professor that seems to be able to
> simulate the sense of presence with what is often refered to as The God
Helmet:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jennifer Kanary Nikolov(a)
>
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.

HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").

HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Around Simulation II - Simulated Senses and the Un-Simulatable

dear clarissa,
about shent
in 1996 I relized an installation to transmit perfumed photography by
internet in 4 different places
ennio bertrand

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 2:34 AM, Clarissa Ribeiro Pereira de Almeida <
almeida.clarissa@gmail.com> wrote:

> And here, something about "computer-controlled olfactory displays" and
> smell
> simulation...
>
>
> On "Proustian effects"
>
> We can experience odors that tap into emotionally charged memories. This
> phenomenon has its roots in the olfactory system – some smells can trigger
> memories of events that take place many years earlier. A phenomenon of
> Involuntary
> memory. A very famous mention in literature of this kind of sensorial event
> in the Marcel Proust novel *In Search of Lost Time*, where the
> narrator experiences
> an awakening upon tasting a madeleine dipped in tea:
>
>
>
> "She sent out for one of those short, plump little cakes called petites
> madeleines, which look as though they had been moulded in the fluted
> scallop
> of a pilgrim's shell. And soon, mechanically, weary after a dull day with
> the prospect of a depressing morrow, I raised to my lips a spoonful of the
> tea in which I had soaked a morsel of the cake. No sooner had the warm
> liquid, and the crumbs with it, touched my palate than a shudder ran
> through
> my whole body, and I stopped, intent upon the extraordinary changes that
> were taking place…at once the vicissitudes of life had become indifferent
> to
> me, its disasters innocuous, its brevity illusory […]" (Marcel
> Proust, *Remembrance
> of Things Past, Volume 1: Swann's Way*. London: Chatto and Windus, 1922.)
>
>
>
> Recognizing *odors associated with meaningful places*:
>
> http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5406/amerjpsyc.123.3.0281
>
> MIT Neuroscientists Explain 'Proustian Effect' Of Small Details Attached To
> Big Memories:
>
> http://chem.info/News/Feeds/2011/01/topics-plant-operations-mit-neuroscientists-explain-proustian-effect-of-sm/
>
> Projection-Based Olfactory Display with Nose Tracking
> ISBN: 0-7803-8415-6
> Most attempts to realize an olfactory display have involved capturing and
> synthesizing the odor. This work focus on spatio-temporal control of odor
> rather than synthesizing odor itself:
> http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/VR.2004.1310054
>
>
> <
> http://chem.info/News/Feeds/2011/01/topics-plant-operations-mit-neuroscientists-explain-proustian-effect-of-sm/
> >
>
> And here we can read about the *SubSmell System*:
>
> The idea of adding the SubSmell logo to the movie for describing the scent
> of each event in the movie has been proposed to improve the current way of
> seeing movies, which can perceive only pictures and sound. Using the
> SubSmell, the audience can smell the movie. The audiences need a SubSmell
> application to read a SubSmell and an olfactory display in order to release
> scent.
>
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/p642p43x04n61567/
>
> A Thesis on "*Symbolic Olfactory Display*" exploring the problems and
> possibilities of computer-controlled scent output.
>
> by Joseph Nathaniel Kaye
>
> S.B. Brain & Cognitive Science,
>
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1999
>
> http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~jofish/thesis/symbolic_olfactory_display.html<http://alumni.media.mit.edu/%7Ejofish/thesis/symbolic_olfactory_display.html>
>
>
>
>
> Clarissa Ribeiro
>
>
> 2011/1/17 Clarissa Ribeiro Pereira de Almeida <almeida.clarissa@gmail.com>
>
> > … "So what is un- un-simulatable? And why?"
> >
> >
> >
> > Here, just an instantaneous free writing exercise around the questions I
> > want to share:
> >
> >
> >
> > *"A moist media pulp fiction (or an escape attempt from the
> simulatable)"*
> >
> >
> >
> > A datacloud was fluctuating in a datasky. Radio waves were *flowing
> by*slowly and dancing and shaking the cloud waves-particles. For a databeing
> > who was observing the system, the scale was macro; the time was complex;
> the
> > sun was shining, as unusual. The cloud was so excited that was about to
> rain
> > and give birth to a moist context that could be the beginning of a new
> > reality in a system of realities. Escaping from this about to born
> reality,
> > the moist nature of the rain was just a temporary sensorial illusion of
> the
> > databeing who was vibrating as the radio waves *pervase* its structure –
> "
> > *Take it as it comes /Specialize in having fun*". Suddenly, in an
> > unpredictable instant, here comes the rain. By maters of the observation,
> > the soft rain becomes a datapool where one can quantum jumping and meet a
> > myriad of multiple selves. Entangled delicate un-simulatable reality.
> Here
> > comes the sun. It's all right!
> >
> >
> >
> > Clarissa Ribeiro
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2011/1/17 Pier Luigi Capucci <plc@noemalab.org>
> >
> > Dear Yasminers,
> >>
> >> in this second discussion about the simulation issues the topics (the
> >> un-simulatable and the simulation of the senses) are very different,
> >> although related. In the remote and mediated communication some senses
> we
> >> normally use and that are very important in our everyday's life - like
> smell
> >> and touch - simply do not pass, they are not effective, are useless.
> While
> >> the simulation hugely involves the sight and the hear, which are the so
> >> called "superior senses", all the other sensory information is dropped
> out.
> >>
> >> Asimple information about the chemical senses:
> >> http://www.slideshare.net/lwolberg/chemical-senses-smell-and-taste
> >>
> >> Many times we have heard about the need of restructuring and redefining
> >> the communication, a critique about "balancing" and discussing the
> >> communication's issues. Many important international events (like the
> almost
> >> concurrent Transmediale) seem devoted to the ethical issues of the
> >> communication. But maybe the problem is at a more general level, on the
> fact
> >> that from a sensory viewpoint the remote and mediated communication is
> >> poorer than the direct one because drops out an important part of the
> way we
> >> "get in touch" with each other. Hence we must admit we accepted to
> >> communicate more rapidly, over greater distance, in an increasingly
> >> affordable and economic way, but in exchange for an impoverished
> >> communication.
> >>
> >> On the other side, in a world where the information is extensively
> >> simulated by the mass media and the new media - a topic debated in our
> first
> >> discussion last year in Yasmin - is there anything which can't enter the
> >> realm of simulation, which can't be simulated, hence reduced - since the
> >> simulation is always a reduction of the phenomenon which is being
> simulated?
> >> So what is un-simultable? And why?
> >>
> >> What are the artist doing in this direction?
> >>
> >> Some more info later!
> >>
> >> Thank you and best,
> >>
> >> Pier Luigi
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Pier Luigi Capucci
> >> e-mail: plc@noemalab.org
> >> web: http://www.noemalab.org/plc/plc.html
> >> skype: plcapucci
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> >> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> >> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> >>
> >> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
> >>
> >> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
> to.
> >> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name,
> and
> >> password in the fields found further down the page.
> >>
> >> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
> >> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on
> the
> >> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
> >>
> >> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
> >> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
> >>
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to.
> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
> password in the fields found further down the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>

--
*we-are-making-digital-art.com*
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.

HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").

HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Around Simulation II - Simulated Senses and the Un-Simulatable

Jennifer,

You ask some questions of interest to me, as my own interest in
simulation is in engineering machines that _do_ magic (in the
ritual/paranormal/supernatural sense, although there is some overlap
with legerdemain and such). We can readily simulate many of the active
behaviors of magic (many rituals can be expressed algorithmically),
but how to simulate the states that those actions are intended to
invoke and evoke?

The trouble I see with simulating telepathy is of having a model of
how telepathy works. But it may do to realize that the experience of
telepathy as anomalous cognition or communication, is anomalous to an
observer. When a mentalist appears to read your mind by studying
various clues that you are unaware of, she appears to have some
uncanny access to your thoughts. That is, in a sense, a simulation (of
something truly uncanny, if such a thing exists), and it applies as
well to computer programs that seem to read your mind (e.g.
http://www.cs4fn.org/mathemagic/magicshuffles/).

The situation is similar with EEG technologies such as the Emotiv
EPOC, NeuroSky/Mattel Mindflex. We can use EEG to intentionally
activate an actuator that moves a body at a distance, and so
experience some sense of telekinesis that may seem supernatural if we
are unaware of the underlying mechanisms, if we do not have a
"natural" model of what is happening -- we may generate/experience a
supernatural model. I am presently developing this technology to
simulate the evocation of a spirit into an artificial body (robot).

Getting back to telepathy, it is possible that what we experience as
tele-pathy (emotions over a distance?) and intuition is
sub/unconscious nervous activity, in which case the more we learn
about such activity, the better we should be able to simulate it. We
may imagine a robot that processes my subtle body "language" in such
as way that it seems to be able to "read" me, to intuit my state, my
intentions, etc. This I suppose relates to your comment about humans
sensing each other in a room, e.g., you may have a "feeling" about
someone which (by this model) means you are processing information
about that person, below your conscious threshold. The difference
between that and how computers communicate at a distance is that
computers do not yet have a conscious threshold in this sense; the
computer does not have a (self-)reflective gaze and cannot (genuinely)
say, "I feel something is good/bad about this situation, although I
cannot say [i.e. infer from available data] why I feel this way."

Sincerely,
Joshua Madara

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Jennifer Kanary Nikolov(a)
<jenniferkanary@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> Hope you are doing well. Looking forward to another wonderful discussion! Every
> time we think something cannot be simulated, it turns out that  maybe we
> can...so what is un-simulatable now? Imagination? Intuition?
>
>
> As we await the first reactions, let me put forward my personal questions as an
> opening teaser that you are free to ignore if in the meantime other interesting
> things have been posted :)
>
>
> Today I spent three hours in a meeting with people who have experience with
> hallucinations and delusions, diagnosed as psychotic or schizophrenic, as you
> might remember, as an artist I am trying to simulate the subjective experience
> of this extreme mental state with a kind of Digital LSD...here the sense of
> self, sense of time and space, and sense of reality play an important role, but
> shall we consider such senses in this discussion?
>
> One of the conclusions of the advisers who were present, was that I should aim
> to simulate Telepathy (the idea that you can insert thoughts into others and
> that they can do that to you). A phenomenon considered as a key symptom. In
> psychosis one often feels a connection to the world, and that all information
> comes in at a high speed on a kind of wired network. Now I ask myself and put
> this question forward to you. How might we simulate a so called 'six sense' such
> as Telepathy?
>
>
> And another murmur....computers can read the mind of other computers...and
> transfer over a distance. How is remote sensing by computers different than that
> of humans sensing each other in a room?
>
>
> Oh, and one more reference, there is a professor that seems to be able to
> simulate the sense of presence with what is often refered to as The God Helmet:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jennifer Kanary Nikolov(a)
>

_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.

HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").

HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Around Simulation II - Simulated Senses and the Un-Simulatable

And here, something about "computer-controlled olfactory displays" and smell
simulation...

On "Proustian effects"

We can experience odors that tap into emotionally charged memories. This
phenomenon has its roots in the olfactory system – some smells can trigger
memories of events that take place many years earlier. A phenomenon of
Involuntary
memory. A very famous mention in literature of this kind of sensorial event
in the Marcel Proust novel *In Search of Lost Time*, where the
narrator experiences
an awakening upon tasting a madeleine dipped in tea:

"She sent out for one of those short, plump little cakes called petites
madeleines, which look as though they had been moulded in the fluted scallop
of a pilgrim's shell. And soon, mechanically, weary after a dull day with
the prospect of a depressing morrow, I raised to my lips a spoonful of the
tea in which I had soaked a morsel of the cake. No sooner had the warm
liquid, and the crumbs with it, touched my palate than a shudder ran through
my whole body, and I stopped, intent upon the extraordinary changes that
were taking place…at once the vicissitudes of life had become indifferent to
me, its disasters innocuous, its brevity illusory […]" (Marcel
Proust, *Remembrance
of Things Past, Volume 1: Swann's Way*. London: Chatto and Windus, 1922.)

Recognizing *odors associated with meaningful places*:

http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5406/amerjpsyc.123.3.0281

MIT Neuroscientists Explain 'Proustian Effect' Of Small Details Attached To
Big Memories:
http://chem.info/News/Feeds/2011/01/topics-plant-operations-mit-neuroscientists-explain-proustian-effect-of-sm/

Projection-Based Olfactory Display with Nose Tracking
ISBN: 0-7803-8415-6
Most attempts to realize an olfactory display have involved capturing and
synthesizing the odor. This work focus on spatio-temporal control of odor
rather than synthesizing odor itself:
http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/VR.2004.1310054

<http://chem.info/News/Feeds/2011/01/topics-plant-operations-mit-neuroscientists-explain-proustian-effect-of-sm/>

And here we can read about the *SubSmell System*:

The idea of adding the SubSmell logo to the movie for describing the scent
of each event in the movie has been proposed to improve the current way of
seeing movies, which can perceive only pictures and sound. Using the
SubSmell, the audience can smell the movie. The audiences need a SubSmell
application to read a SubSmell and an olfactory display in order to release
scent.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p642p43x04n61567/

A Thesis on "*Symbolic Olfactory Display*" exploring the problems and
possibilities of computer-controlled scent output.

by Joseph Nathaniel Kaye

S.B. Brain & Cognitive Science,

Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1999

http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~jofish/thesis/symbolic_olfactory_display.html

Clarissa Ribeiro

2011/1/17 Clarissa Ribeiro Pereira de Almeida <almeida.clarissa@gmail.com>

> … "So what is un- un-simulatable? And why?"
>
>
>
> Here, just an instantaneous free writing exercise around the questions I
> want to share:
>
>
>
> *"A moist media pulp fiction (or an escape attempt from the simulatable)"*
>
>
>
> A datacloud was fluctuating in a datasky. Radio waves were *flowing by*slowly and dancing and shaking the cloud waves-particles. For a databeing
> who was observing the system, the scale was macro; the time was complex; the
> sun was shining, as unusual. The cloud was so excited that was about to rain
> and give birth to a moist context that could be the beginning of a new
> reality in a system of realities. Escaping from this about to born reality,
> the moist nature of the rain was just a temporary sensorial illusion of the
> databeing who was vibrating as the radio waves *pervase* its structure – "
> *Take it as it comes /Specialize in having fun*". Suddenly, in an
> unpredictable instant, here comes the rain. By maters of the observation,
> the soft rain becomes a datapool where one can quantum jumping and meet a
> myriad of multiple selves. Entangled delicate un-simulatable reality. Here
> comes the sun. It's all right!
>
>
>
> Clarissa Ribeiro
>
>
>
>
> 2011/1/17 Pier Luigi Capucci <plc@noemalab.org>
>
> Dear Yasminers,
>>
>> in this second discussion about the simulation issues the topics (the
>> un-simulatable and the simulation of the senses) are very different,
>> although related. In the remote and mediated communication some senses we
>> normally use and that are very important in our everyday's life - like smell
>> and touch - simply do not pass, they are not effective, are useless. While
>> the simulation hugely involves the sight and the hear, which are the so
>> called "superior senses", all the other sensory information is dropped out.
>>
>> Asimple information about the chemical senses:
>> http://www.slideshare.net/lwolberg/chemical-senses-smell-and-taste
>>
>> Many times we have heard about the need of restructuring and redefining
>> the communication, a critique about "balancing" and discussing the
>> communication's issues. Many important international events (like the almost
>> concurrent Transmediale) seem devoted to the ethical issues of the
>> communication. But maybe the problem is at a more general level, on the fact
>> that from a sensory viewpoint the remote and mediated communication is
>> poorer than the direct one because drops out an important part of the way we
>> "get in touch" with each other. Hence we must admit we accepted to
>> communicate more rapidly, over greater distance, in an increasingly
>> affordable and economic way, but in exchange for an impoverished
>> communication.
>>
>> On the other side, in a world where the information is extensively
>> simulated by the mass media and the new media - a topic debated in our first
>> discussion last year in Yasmin - is there anything which can't enter the
>> realm of simulation, which can't be simulated, hence reduced - since the
>> simulation is always a reduction of the phenomenon which is being simulated?
>> So what is un-simultable? And why?
>>
>> What are the artist doing in this direction?
>>
>> Some more info later!
>>
>> Thank you and best,
>>
>> Pier Luigi
>>
>>
>> --
>> Pier Luigi Capucci
>> e-mail: plc@noemalab.org
>> web: http://www.noemalab.org/plc/plc.html
>> skype: plcapucci
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>
>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>
>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to.
>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
>> password in the fields found further down the page.
>>
>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
>> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
>> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>>
>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
>> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.

HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").

HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.