reposted from a response on linked in
from
-- Ziska Childs Design LLC
If there was one theme I heard repeated in 2013 it was STEAM
http://www.npr.org/blogs/deceptivecadence/2013/04/09/176681242/can-yo-yo-ma-fix-the-arts
...and in 2014... hang in there long enough and you'll hear Scott give
his advice to young engineers "Take and arts class"
http://www.aspenideas.org/session/walking-style-merging-3d-printing-and-functional-robotics
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Monday, September 1, 2014
Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Programming is a creative activity
Perhaps relevant for this interesting discussion is a consideration of the beginning of Western higher education in the universities of the 12/13th centuries, where - in extension of the ancients' protocols - music/harmonic theory is studied in the quadrivium (along with arithmetic, geometry, and astronomy), and this comes *after* education in the trivium of grammar, logic/dialectic, and rhetoric.
The theory of music in the West (if not its performance) is there a central part of the STEM tradition that should be held onto. As I think should be the position of STEM as specialised extensions of the linguistic arts, rather than a replacement for them.
Socrates makes a direct assertion against a narrow focus on mathematical disciplines: "*if* inquiry into all the subjects we've mentioned [i.e. the mathematical studies outlined in 525a-531c] brings out their community (koinônia) and their kinship (sungeneia) with each other and enables us to reason out how they are related (oikeia) to each other, it will contribute something to the goal of our enquiry [knowledge of the good, 532a]... otherwise it is in vain."
Danny
--
Danny Butt
Research Fellow
Research Unit in Public Cultures
School of Culture and Communication
University of Melbourne, VIC 3010
Australia
http://public-cultures.unimelb.edu.au/
http://www.dannybutt.net
+61 428 820 766
On 1/09/2014, at 12:41 PM, William Joel <joelw@wcsu.edu> wrote:
> (Before I continue, much if what I'll be sharing is my opinion, fed by thirty years of teaching computer science, and let's say about forty-five years of programming and working in the arts.)
>
> Programming, in my very humble opinion, is both an art and a science. Yes, there is a mathematical logic to any computer program, but the act of writing a good, readable, comprehendable program is an act of creativity. Some have even dared compare it to creative writing, but I'll step around that idea for the present.
>
> It's a true shame that software engineers have tried to make people believe that the development of computer programs can be automated, and that there is no creativity in the process. Funny, but it reminds me if the argument that music "written" by a computer program is not a work of art. But I say that the original program, and the subsequent music, are together a work of art, that there was a creative, artistic process at work that led to the program, which in turn created music.
>
> When a programmer arrives at a new solution to an existing problem, we occassionally call it an elegant solution, if the method is not only novel, but well thought out, and shows a creative use of existing ideas. Elegant. A computer program can be elegant. Imagine that.
>
> Then again, true science, not an engineering approximation, is a discipline that often leads to elegant, creative, artistic solutions to problems. But are not artists scientists as well? Are not potters material scientists? Are not composers physicists?
>
> By the way, I have found that music majors often make the best programs. I wonder why?
>
> William J. Joel, Computer Science
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The theory of music in the West (if not its performance) is there a central part of the STEM tradition that should be held onto. As I think should be the position of STEM as specialised extensions of the linguistic arts, rather than a replacement for them.
Socrates makes a direct assertion against a narrow focus on mathematical disciplines: "*if* inquiry into all the subjects we've mentioned [i.e. the mathematical studies outlined in 525a-531c] brings out their community (koinônia) and their kinship (sungeneia) with each other and enables us to reason out how they are related (oikeia) to each other, it will contribute something to the goal of our enquiry [knowledge of the good, 532a]... otherwise it is in vain."
Danny
--
Danny Butt
Research Fellow
Research Unit in Public Cultures
School of Culture and Communication
University of Melbourne, VIC 3010
Australia
http://public-cultures.unimelb.edu.au/
http://www.dannybutt.net
+61 428 820 766
On 1/09/2014, at 12:41 PM, William Joel <joelw@wcsu.edu> wrote:
> (Before I continue, much if what I'll be sharing is my opinion, fed by thirty years of teaching computer science, and let's say about forty-five years of programming and working in the arts.)
>
> Programming, in my very humble opinion, is both an art and a science. Yes, there is a mathematical logic to any computer program, but the act of writing a good, readable, comprehendable program is an act of creativity. Some have even dared compare it to creative writing, but I'll step around that idea for the present.
>
> It's a true shame that software engineers have tried to make people believe that the development of computer programs can be automated, and that there is no creativity in the process. Funny, but it reminds me if the argument that music "written" by a computer program is not a work of art. But I say that the original program, and the subsequent music, are together a work of art, that there was a creative, artistic process at work that led to the program, which in turn created music.
>
> When a programmer arrives at a new solution to an existing problem, we occassionally call it an elegant solution, if the method is not only novel, but well thought out, and shows a creative use of existing ideas. Elegant. A computer program can be elegant. Imagine that.
>
> Then again, true science, not an engineering approximation, is a discipline that often leads to elegant, creative, artistic solutions to problems. But are not artists scientists as well? Are not potters material scientists? Are not composers physicists?
>
> By the way, I have found that music majors often make the best programs. I wonder why?
>
> William J. Joel, Computer Science
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Programming is a creative activity
Just to add a personal point of agreement with William Joel's thoughtful post:
My education and career are in the arts, but in the early 1990s when the only way to make a website was to learn how to write code, I learned it and became quite proficient (still am and still write it to make websites, although now I'm a dinosaur -- er, I prefer craftsperson or maker, actually). After years of practicing in the creative fields I was stunned to find myself back then experiencing the same aesthetic reaction to the writing of code that I had felt in the making of a painting. Quite beyond what it did to make a webpage function, I found myself going back often to just admire the code itself -- not only because I took pride in having written it as lean, efficient, and as clever as I could, but because I found it visually compelling. I loved looking at it, it felt similar to what I experienced when looking at a natural landscape. Neither nature nor code are intended to be beautiful -- the visual appearance of both are simply byproducts of entirely non-artistic pro!
cesses that strive for efficiencies. We're just lucky, we humans, to be wired with a visual intelligence that summarizes a complex process for us by how that process looks, and that therein we can experience a sensation of beauty. Recently I co-curated an exhibition of folded paper sculptures by scientist-origami master Robert Lang, and became aware of software he had written that enabled the folding process. I took pages of his mathematics and his code, and enlarged them verbatim and hung them like paintings on the gallery walls -- not as didactic material to explain his exquisite origami pieces, but as equal works of his art on their own.
Stephen Nowlin
________________________________________
From: yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr [yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr] On Behalf Of William Joel [joelw@wcsu.edu]
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 7:41 PM
To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] Programming is a creative activity
(Before I continue, much if what I'll be sharing is my opinion, fed by thirty years of teaching computer science, and let's say about forty-five years of programming and working in the arts.)
Programming, in my very humble opinion, is both an art and a science. Yes, there is a mathematical logic to any computer program, but the act of writing a good, readable, comprehendable program is an act of creativity. Some have even dared compare it to creative writing, but I'll step around that idea for the present.
It's a true shame that software engineers have tried to make people believe that the development of computer programs can be automated, and that there is no creativity in the process. Funny, but it reminds me if the argument that music "written" by a computer program is not a work of art. But I say that the original program, and the subsequent music, are together a work of art, that there was a creative, artistic process at work that led to the program, which in turn created music.
When a programmer arrives at a new solution to an existing problem, we occassionally call it an elegant solution, if the method is not only novel, but well thought out, and shows a creative use of existing ideas. Elegant. A computer program can be elegant. Imagine that.
Then again, true science, not an engineering approximation, is a discipline that often leads to elegant, creative, artistic solutions to problems. But are not artists scientists as well? Are not potters material scientists? Are not composers physicists?
By the way, I have found that music majors often make the best programs. I wonder why?
William J. Joel, Computer Science
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My education and career are in the arts, but in the early 1990s when the only way to make a website was to learn how to write code, I learned it and became quite proficient (still am and still write it to make websites, although now I'm a dinosaur -- er, I prefer craftsperson or maker, actually). After years of practicing in the creative fields I was stunned to find myself back then experiencing the same aesthetic reaction to the writing of code that I had felt in the making of a painting. Quite beyond what it did to make a webpage function, I found myself going back often to just admire the code itself -- not only because I took pride in having written it as lean, efficient, and as clever as I could, but because I found it visually compelling. I loved looking at it, it felt similar to what I experienced when looking at a natural landscape. Neither nature nor code are intended to be beautiful -- the visual appearance of both are simply byproducts of entirely non-artistic pro!
cesses that strive for efficiencies. We're just lucky, we humans, to be wired with a visual intelligence that summarizes a complex process for us by how that process looks, and that therein we can experience a sensation of beauty. Recently I co-curated an exhibition of folded paper sculptures by scientist-origami master Robert Lang, and became aware of software he had written that enabled the folding process. I took pages of his mathematics and his code, and enlarged them verbatim and hung them like paintings on the gallery walls -- not as didactic material to explain his exquisite origami pieces, but as equal works of his art on their own.
Stephen Nowlin
________________________________________
From: yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr [yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr] On Behalf Of William Joel [joelw@wcsu.edu]
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 7:41 PM
To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] Programming is a creative activity
(Before I continue, much if what I'll be sharing is my opinion, fed by thirty years of teaching computer science, and let's say about forty-five years of programming and working in the arts.)
Programming, in my very humble opinion, is both an art and a science. Yes, there is a mathematical logic to any computer program, but the act of writing a good, readable, comprehendable program is an act of creativity. Some have even dared compare it to creative writing, but I'll step around that idea for the present.
It's a true shame that software engineers have tried to make people believe that the development of computer programs can be automated, and that there is no creativity in the process. Funny, but it reminds me if the argument that music "written" by a computer program is not a work of art. But I say that the original program, and the subsequent music, are together a work of art, that there was a creative, artistic process at work that led to the program, which in turn created music.
When a programmer arrives at a new solution to an existing problem, we occassionally call it an elegant solution, if the method is not only novel, but well thought out, and shows a creative use of existing ideas. Elegant. A computer program can be elegant. Imagine that.
Then again, true science, not an engineering approximation, is a discipline that often leads to elegant, creative, artistic solutions to problems. But are not artists scientists as well? Are not potters material scientists? Are not composers physicists?
By the way, I have found that music majors often make the best programs. I wonder why?
William J. Joel, Computer Science
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[Yasmin_discussions] What's in a name
Roger,
I do not feel I've placed my size 11 foot into a trap. Rather, I was trying to make the point that what we term "scientific activities" require both a scientific method and an artistic aesthetic. Early "scientists", before that term was popularized, were referred to as philosophers, yes? Labels evolve, but the foundations knowledge acquisition do not. We merely change the names.
No element of human knowledge exists in a vacumn. Trying not to sound cliche, but everything IS connected. The main issue I see with STEM education, at least in the USA, is that there is a list of curriculum concepts that are mandated, nessecitating a teaching approach that attempts to teach in a vacumn. But then again, this is just my opinion.
Bill Joel
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I do not feel I've placed my size 11 foot into a trap. Rather, I was trying to make the point that what we term "scientific activities" require both a scientific method and an artistic aesthetic. Early "scientists", before that term was popularized, were referred to as philosophers, yes? Labels evolve, but the foundations knowledge acquisition do not. We merely change the names.
No element of human knowledge exists in a vacumn. Trying not to sound cliche, but everything IS connected. The main issue I see with STEM education, at least in the USA, is that there is a list of curriculum concepts that are mandated, nessecitating a teaching approach that attempts to teach in a vacumn. But then again, this is just my opinion.
Bill Joel
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[Yasmin_discussions] Should we call it STEM?
Roger points out something very important as we move forward with this
discussion and that is we must make more explicit the ways that STEM
subjects engage problems and interests that motivate people, particularly
in the arts and among groups underrepresented in STEM.
discussion and that is we must make more explicit the ways that STEM
subjects engage problems and interests that motivate people, particularly
in the arts and among groups underrepresented in STEM.
Aaron Saunders was recently interviewed for an article in the Washington
Post. Saunders recommends that we not refer to STEM education as "STEM"
because it's not just about writing code. Students should also learn team
building and collaboration, idea creation, design, etc. He says, "We don't
want people to believe the only way to take part in this innovation economy
is as a developer." To this I'd add interdisciplinary or cross-disciplinary
collaboration, not just working across STEM areas but also with the arts
and culture sectors.
I know that there is value in studying fields without crossing over into
other areas. However, this is becoming harder and harder in today's
economy. It may make some people feel uncomfortable but creates a space for
people who may not be at the table.
--
*Nettrice R. Gaskins, PhD*
STEAM Lab Director
Boston Arts Academy
http://nettrice.us • http://netarthud.wordpress.com
http://blog.art21.org/author/nettrice-gaskins
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[Yasmin_discussions] So what does STEAM have to do with it ?
Herve
actually i disagree somewhat with joel's statement and your comment-
i of course agree in demystification and high creative processes of
computer art
you said
I fully agree with William Joel's experienced and meaningful comments.
Together demystification and recognition of the high creative process of
computer art.
Hervé Fischer
i think William's comments fall into the trap of some familiar but
false dichotomies
for instance william states
Programming, in my very humble opinion, is both an art and a science.
Yes, there is a mathematical logic to any computer program, but the
act of writing a good, readable, comprehendable program is an act of
creativity
but i think that both art and science, as well as other human fields
require creativity- you imply the false dichotomy of art-creative
science-un creative
it seems to me that there is a spectrum of activities that span art
and science and that one of the important things is the
'intention' of the creator whether in art or in science
as a scientist i try and construct explanations of how the world
functions, relying on techniques within the scientific method and
looking
for matches between the explanation and observations of the world or
experiments on pieces of the world
as an engineer, i use my scientific understanding to develop tools
that function the way i design in the world
artists it seems to me develop artefacts that affect people , and
themselves, psychologically, aethetically
spanning all these intents we use creativity, elegance,
your statement
Then again, true science, not an engineering approximation, is a
discipline that often leads to elegant, creative, artistic solutions
to problems. But are not artists scientists as well? Are not potters
material scientists? Are not composers physicists?
seems to me conflates intention of the creation with methods used in
validating the creation
see for instance robert root bernsteins tools of creative people in
"sparks of genius"
http://www.amazon.com/Sparks-Genius-Thirteen-Thinking-Creative/dp/0618127453
the challenge in the stem to steam movement is to build integrated
ways of connecting the various intentions and interests
of the students that dont create artificial boundaries between ways of
knowing and practices of creativity
you state
Then again, true science, not an engineering approximation, is a
discipline that often leads to elegant, creative, artistic solutions
to problems. But are not artists scientists as well? Are not potters
material scientists? Are not composers physicists?
i think that there are different ways of knowing - that art and
science embody different basic intentions of the creators-
i think its useful to consider art and science as differing human
activities but that there are bridging and transdiscplinary
approaches that can make both artists and scientists succeed at
achieving their intentions
if i want to build the most amazing simulated world for a computer
game, i will rely on a number of sciences
( perception and cognition, computer science, social science) a number
of technical skills ( programming)
and design and arts expertise ( graphics, modelling, animation, story telling, )
often stem subjects are taught divorced from the problems and
interests that motivate people and we dont
make explicit the bridging and trans-disciplinary ideas and techniques
i am all for deymystification and encourage complex forms of creativity in both
the arts and sciences
roger
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: William Joel <joelw@wcsu.edu>
Date: Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 9:41 PM
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] Programming is a creative activity
To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
(Before I continue, much if what I'll be sharing is my opinion, fed by
thirty years of teaching computer science, and let's say about
forty-five years of programming and working in the arts.)
Programming, in my very humble opinion, is both an art and a science.
Yes, there is a mathematical logic to any computer program, but the
act of writing a good, readable, comprehendable program is an act of
creativity. Some have even dared compare it to creative writing, but
I'll step around that idea for the present.
It's a true shame that software engineers have tried to make people
believe that the development of computer programs can be automated,
and that there is no creativity in the process. Funny, but it reminds
me if the argument that music "written" by a computer program is not a
work of art. But I s
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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Programming is a creative activity
I fully agree with William Joel's experienced and meaningful comments.
Together demystification and recognition of the high creative process of
computer art.
Hervé Fischer
-----Message d'origine-----
De : yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr
[mailto:yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr] De la part de William
Joel
Envoyé : 31 août 2014 22:41
À : YASMIN DISCUSSIONS
Objet : [Yasmin_discussions] Programming is a creative activity
(Before I continue, much if what I'll be sharing is my opinion, fed by
thirty years of teaching computer science, and let's say about forty-five
years of programming and working in the arts.)
Programming, in my very humble opinion, is both an art and a science. Yes,
there is a mathematical logic to any computer program, but the act of
writing a good, readable, comprehendable program is an act of creativity.
Some have even dared compare it to creative writing, but I'll step around
that idea for the present.
It's a true shame that software engineers have tried to make people believe
that the development of computer programs can be automated, and that there
is no creativity in the process. Funny, but it reminds me if the argument
that music "written" by a computer program is not a work of art. But I say
that the original program, and the subsequent music, are together a work of
art, that there was a creative, artistic process at work that led to the
program, which in turn created music.
When a programmer arrives at a new solution to an existing problem, we
occassionally call it an elegant solution, if the method is not only novel,
but well thought out, and shows a creative use of existing ideas. Elegant. A
computer program can be elegant. Imagine that.
Then again, true science, not an engineering approximation, is a discipline
that often leads to elegant, creative, artistic solutions to problems. But
are not artists scientists as well? Are not potters material scientists? Are
not composers physicists?
By the way, I have found that music majors often make the best programs. I
wonder why?
William J. Joel, Computer Science
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---
Ce courrier électronique ne contient aucun virus ou logiciel malveillant parce que la protection avast! Antivirus est active.
http://www.avast.com
_______________________________________________
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HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
If you prefer to read the posts on a blog go to http://yasminlist.blogspot.com/
Together demystification and recognition of the high creative process of
computer art.
Hervé Fischer
-----Message d'origine-----
De : yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr
[mailto:yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr] De la part de William
Joel
Envoyé : 31 août 2014 22:41
À : YASMIN DISCUSSIONS
Objet : [Yasmin_discussions] Programming is a creative activity
(Before I continue, much if what I'll be sharing is my opinion, fed by
thirty years of teaching computer science, and let's say about forty-five
years of programming and working in the arts.)
Programming, in my very humble opinion, is both an art and a science. Yes,
there is a mathematical logic to any computer program, but the act of
writing a good, readable, comprehendable program is an act of creativity.
Some have even dared compare it to creative writing, but I'll step around
that idea for the present.
It's a true shame that software engineers have tried to make people believe
that the development of computer programs can be automated, and that there
is no creativity in the process. Funny, but it reminds me if the argument
that music "written" by a computer program is not a work of art. But I say
that the original program, and the subsequent music, are together a work of
art, that there was a creative, artistic process at work that led to the
program, which in turn created music.
When a programmer arrives at a new solution to an existing problem, we
occassionally call it an elegant solution, if the method is not only novel,
but well thought out, and shows a creative use of existing ideas. Elegant. A
computer program can be elegant. Imagine that.
Then again, true science, not an engineering approximation, is a discipline
that often leads to elegant, creative, artistic solutions to problems. But
are not artists scientists as well? Are not potters material scientists? Are
not composers physicists?
By the way, I have found that music majors often make the best programs. I
wonder why?
William J. Joel, Computer Science
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
SBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the
page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
password in the fields found further down the page.
HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your
e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest
Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
If you prefer to read the posts on a blog go to
http://yasminlist.blogspot.com/
---
Ce courrier électronique ne contient aucun virus ou logiciel malveillant parce que la protection avast! Antivirus est active.
http://www.avast.com
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
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TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
If you prefer to read the posts on a blog go to http://yasminlist.blogspot.com/
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