Hello,
My name is Guillermo, i´m physicist from Valencia (Spain) and i´m
collaborating on this list from several years. First of all, i would like
to say that this conversation is very enthusiastic, and i´m really
enjoying.
I like a lot the post from Jol. For me, all times that i find some
differences between art and science practice, always i find cases where
these differences blur. So, in my opinion, create differences, or observe
differences is a cultural process, and so, with historical development.
This is a not very revelant statement, as it say that in the past art and
science could be the same, and now art something different, which is
irrelevant, as we are talking about nowadays, but it gives you the idea
that there is not any fundamental/objective limitation to deffine
differences, apart from cultural.
Focusing my arguments. I think art helps to me to do more rigurous science,
as art helps to undertand the history, the culture, the scientist/persons,
even the political context, the economical limitations, all subject which
surround scientific practice and it is not studied on the science
degrees/Masters/PHd/Post Docs/ and so on. And all this surrodings is
science. I think was Goethe who say "History of science is science" (if i´m
not wrong !!), so, Art parctice applied to science context gives to me the
possibility to found this educational hole which is not given any more in
the formal education, and which is an important part for the criticism, for
the assimilation of concepts, and to understand the science.
For sure there are more interesting applications, as for example the new
visualization techniques which arises from the art context. Any new
visualization application is a new way to make concepts, to make new
relations, so, in a methaporical thinking art helps to me to create new
"maps", which gives to me the possibiliy to make new conections between
concepts, in the sense that the map creates new linkings. So, art helps to
think in a different way. And this, another time, for me is the same to say
art helps to make more rigurous sicence, as science needs to find new ways
to think.
Finally, another interesting point that i found is on the languaje context.
Art helps to science to understand the important role of languaje in all
science process: from the more practical pourposses of communication
(talks, science popularization), to the heart of making knoledge, whichs is
related to the communication. In my opinion, science could be deffined as
the art to make questions to the nature, and languaje is the vehicle. Even
when we are dealing with strong and big instrumentations and experiments,
there is an important process of communication through some kind of
languaje, an to make it conscient this use of the languaje helps to make
more interesting questions.
For example: In many cases to make a measure is to make a translation of
one magnitude to other. In an spectrometer the color of the light is
translated to an space dispersion. In this sense it is made a traduction
from color/wavelenght/energy to space. In reality, much more of the
measures create this kind of traductions. To understant it helps to think
in new ways to make this kinds of "traductions", which is equivalent to say
to understand new ways to make relation between physical magnitudes = make
new kind of measures.
In all the cases, this kind of interaction in my opinion help to the
scientist to make better and deeper science.
Guillermo.
2013/8/8 Jacqueline sawatzky <sawatzky.jacky@gmail.com>
> I am ready these post with much interest.
>
> First my context to respond to this topic. Three years ago, after years of
> working as an artist where my MFA thesis was more research based, I
> embarked on a MSc degree. For this degree I choose, I put my artistic self
> aside. I read books on research methods, and embarked on a process wherein
> it seemed every step in the research had to be justified, traced, and to be
> if needed verified by third parties. A very opposite approach to (my)
> artistic method, or process as it is more often revered to, which is
> intuitive, questioning theoretical and materialistic paradigms, and looking
> at the obvious from an unexpected angle. Now I know that scientific
> research is also intuitive; however, I think the discussion should be not
> be on what we agree on but on what Kevin writes the different environments
> we operate in.
>
> Art is a knowledge system, and its histories consist of many different
> ways of observation, and thinking through these observations. However,
> there is a fundamental difference, which I want to explain through my own
> practice. In my work process I think through topics using the materiality
> of digital video and audio, which includes the properties, the culture, the
> history and theory around digital video. The process of questioning,
> researching , exploring, comes together in the choices made, which become
> only perceptible in the finished piece. A viewer, later, instils their own
> perceptions in the work. The work is perceived within an artistic
> theoretical and historical context. This perception requires a prior
> knowledge and experience in engaging with art works.
>
> Thinking about this from a scientific method, in the lines of a published
> paper, wherein the difference is the decision making process is part of
> the product, thus it is the documentation of the process other than the
> work that is of importance. This is requires a very different approach from
> an artist to her work process, as well as a different audience and venue.
>
> Too often I see artistic work becoming an illustration of a scientific
> production other then being a different view on the materiality, context,
> knowledge system of to be researched topic. Coming back to the posts by
> Paul , I think that the problem is maybe to easy to say we are preaching to
> the converted. The flock needs to be pro active in the understanding artist
> have of scientific research methods, and the scientist have of an artistic
> process. Wanting to step out of your comfort zone, so to say. So I think
> the topic of this discussion might be better served by the question HOW art
> science collaboration contribute to successful scientific production _and I
> want to add_ artistic production.
>
> Thank you for reading.
>
> Jacky Sawatzky
>
> artist, educator, researcher
> Models of Observation
> http://jackysawatzky.net
>
>
>
> On 2013-08-07, at 6:23 PM, Paul Fishwick wrote:
>
> > I really like Kevin's point below as I think he hits the nail on the head
> > with his comments, particularly where he points to a need for
> > artists to be able to "convince them [scientists] of the value of
> > art practice and theory."
> >
> > Everyone on this list is already sold on the philosophical leanings
> > involving the value of the arts, sciences, and their intersection so
> > no need to continue to use this as an argument.
> >
> > I think a much stronger argument is needed for the future. That
> > argument is based on scientific literature to show that under
> > a variety of circumstances, the arts can improve something
> > fundamental about cognition: for example, attention, memory,
> > or a higher level execution function such as learning. If we
> > build up this literature to include such findings, this will be
> > most convincing to the scientist because all endeavors (inc.
> > science) require effective cognition function. If you want to
> > teach someone about organic chemistry, students will need a
> > good memory, and the ability to command attention during the
> > learning or communication activities involved.
> >
> > Anything short of this makes for "preaching to the choir"
> > scenarios we find ourselves in often as we continue to explore
> > this interface.
> >
> > -paul
> >
> > Paul Fishwick, PhD
> > Chair, ACM SIGSIM
> > Distinguished Chair of Arts & Technology and Professor of Computer
> Science
> > The University of Texas at Dallas
> > Arts & Technology
> > 800 West Campbell Road, AT10
> > Richardson, TX 75080-3021
> >
> > On Aug 6, 2013, at 5:59 PM, roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> DOES ART SCIENCE COLLABORATION CONTRIBUTE IN ANY WAY TO SUCCESSFUL...
> >>
> >> In collaborations with scientists, I have often found, as an artist,
> >> that it is difficult from the outset to convince them of the value of
> >> art practice and theory. I agree with the papers quoted by Roger.
> >> There is real asymmetry. I think that this in part arises because most
> >> scientists operate in very a different academic, institutional and
> >> financial environment from most artists. That may well be okay, but it
> >> also means that artists will most likely never come to nourish
> >> scientific research.
> >> By Kevin McCourt
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