I agree Jol-
I agree that you never had any contextualisation for science, yet the art teachers always tell you "how important" the field is and definitely- there was never any discussion of how the 2 intersect.
the very notion of this rocks pedagogies across the board and collaborative practice is not AT ALL taught in any level of education- even post graduate studies- due to the ins and outs of university funding models and departmental strategies-
it sux- it really does-
I have been a chair for ISMAR for 5 years now and computer scientists (from my direct experience) really don't respect artists- OR see a differentiation between us and designers- even philosophy often fails to do this (Sloterdijk as an example).
The more and more I grow the more I think that scientific methodology sux and a Bergsonist approach to practice is more appropriate- but try telling that to scientists!!
the academy model does a lot for determining discourse, however- it follows a Darwinist approach when it should more correctly, follow a Dawkins memetic approach - the ways in which we classify and archive is really the core contributor to this dispersive view of art/science research- of course more so from a scientific perspective- and perhaps we nee to approach the way we develop discourse more appropriate, rather than discussing how we all get along?
___________________________________________
Julian Stadon BA (hons), M.E.A, PhD
Senior Lecturer,
Interface/Interaction Design
FACHHOCHSCHULE SALZBURG GmbH
Salzburg University of Applied Sciences
fon: +43 (0)50 2211-1213
Urstein Süd 1 | 5412 Puch/Salzburg | Austria
www.fh-salzburg.ac.at
Curator,
Transreal Topologies @ ISMAR2013, Adelaide
Director,
MARart.org
Overlord
Dorkbotperth
LinkedIn Profile
Gerichtsstand Salzburg | FN166054y
___________________________________________
________________________________________
From: yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr [yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr] on behalf of jol thomson [communicate@jolthomson.ca]
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:31 PM
To: YASMIN ANNOUNCEMENTS
Cc: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] [Yasmin: how does art science collaboration practice contribute to scientific research
Hi Roger, Brian, et al.
This is really a hot topic actually ~ To me what your initiating here
is talking around somethings that are even more challenging; the total
revamping or rethinking of the educational paradigm {1}, and something
like a discursive ecology {2}. And the two are of course not
unrelated.
{1} When i was a kid growing up in the Canadian educational system, it
had never occurred to anyone of authority to actually let the kids
know what they could do with maths, for example (let alone anything
else) - i eventually dropped maths, something of a considerable
strength during high school (for the arts) because no one had ever
told me about quantum physics weirdness or computer programming or
astro physics (etc.) before that - this was before the internet so i
couldn't just find it out there either. It was not apparent the
values of maths in Life, arts or human history of knowledge, it was
definitely not shown to be interesting at that time - which i highly
regret at times.
But that's the easier biographical element - if our aim or hope or
grace is to change the world for the better for everyone aboard - then
the educational system is, and i think this is totally obvious to
everyone involved here? - an immense failure. Whats that thing David
Orr said? [ my seeming pessimism is meant to be challenging and not
crippling:) ] Wouldn't the Sciences and Humanities be better placed
alongside each other within the larger field of Inquiry - or history -
itself? - including contemporary or simultaneous history? This would
be a form of mental and political activism, both the initiation of
this program and the relevance for societies - and none of these
things could occur outside of a media ecology or communications
understanding - that's the hook - as soon as you want to liberate and
empower people with knowledge, well it becomes increasingly political,
(or should i say financial?) to the often problematic point of
immobility (alienation).
So {2} might be included there in {1}, and something akin to a set
theoretical understanding of the problem is not unintended.
A discursive ecology within the historical or coeval* realms of
Inquiry is not merely a possible foundation for something like a
Foucaultian notion of "biopower" - but societal organizors iare
seemingly not ready or willing to undertake - it is crucially an
"activist" motion. . . any ecology it is said, should fundamentally be
about relations and mediation, and there is still this utopic dream
within the www's potential ...
(aren't these sets elements of each other? I am apologetic when it is
not so clear . . . . could use your help! :)
////
"What are we for?" is a wide, open and plural question, that i can
really get behind! Some of us out here know our responses, or are at
least opening to them and finding ground. (Its late, but its not TOO
late!)
_____
*Coeval is a really beautiful term i came across recently which i
really really enjoy - its use in the field of cultural anthropology
(specifically) means: synchronous (or simultaneous) and contemporary
(!) (ie: there is already the inherent relation, a togetherness in the
time of being - no solipsism).
Thanks again ,
All the Best!
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:07 AM, roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> Brian
>
> your email triggered a nerve-
>
> when we surveyed the STEAM field in
> US high schools for the SEAD white papers we found dozens
> of STEAM programs- including STEAM with the A for Agriculture-
> so yes all for Activism !!
>
> my colleague tom linehan has been asking provocatively whether
> the very concept of STEM is a concept that is now no longer useful
>
> ie the very ontology of STEM forces you into a way of thinking
> that blocks the most interesting ideas and projects
>
> Johnathan Zillberg in his SEAD white paper meta analysis
> started a frontal attack on the very concept of the two cultures
> as one that is no longer useful and critiques how in spite of
> ourselves we draw on the two culture mythology even though
> C P snow himself disagreed with the way his ideas had been
> distorted
>
> how would the art science community begin to think if we
> banished the two cultures and CP Snow (yeah aristotle is fun
> to read too) and the very concept of dividing knowledge and
> education into STEM fields and non STEM Fields= so maybe
> this STEM to STEAM discussion is fundamentally misguided
>
> i remember 20 years ago roy ascott when we were working
> on the Leonardo Special Issue on Art and Interactive Telecommunications
> (with the late and regretted Carl Loeffler) agitating to find a way
> to replace the work Art because it carried too much unuseful baggage
>
>
> so no for STEAM STEAAM SHTEAM yes for ?
>
> roger
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Brian Degger <brian.degger@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 7:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin: Fwd: What about that ?
> To: YASMIN ANNOUNCEMENTS <yasmin_announcements@estia.media.uoa.gr>
>
>
> I thought we were all about STEAM now ;)
> Can't wait until Science, techology,engineering, arts, maths becomes STEAAM
> Science, technology,engineering, arts, activism, math.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 4:28 PM, rbuiani <rbuiani@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> yup, thanks Annick for bringing this up....except that this STEM obsession
>> has brought some admins to believe that we no longer need the arts and
>> humanities.
>>
>> http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/university-of-alberta-moves-to-cut-20-arts-programs-1.1416250
>>
>> rb
>>
>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 9:01 PM, roger malina wrote:
>>
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: Annick Bureaud <abureaud@gmail.com>
>> > Date: Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 3:53 PM
>> > Subject: What about that ?
>> > To: malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57598551/living-breathing-glowing-rabbits-successfully-born/
>> >
>> > I don't exactly know how it fits into your art-science discussion but
>> > after the "first" steack grown by a scientist, may be it would be nice
>> > to have an "art and humanities" curiculum for scientists ;-)))
>> >
>> > Can't send it to Yasmin, as I can't use my registered email address
>> > where I currently am.
>> >
>> > Annick
>> > --
>> >
>> > ------------------------
>> > Annick Bureaud (abureaud@gmail.com)
>> > Leonardo/Olats : http://www.olats.org
>> > Web : http://www.annickbureaud.net
>> > Collectif Nunc : http://www.nunc.com
>> > -------------------------
>> >
>> > e.com
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> roberta buiani
>> PhD communication and culture, York University
>> programmer ArtSci Salon http://artscisalon.wordpress.com/
>> program advisor Subtle Technologies Festival http://subtletechnologies.com
>> http://atomarborea.net
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------
> Brian Degger
> twitter: @drbrian
>
> http://makerspace.org.uk
> http://transitlab.org
> ----------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
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> --
> Roger F Malina
> Is in Dallas right now
> please contact me by email but
> for very very urgent things phone/text me me
> 1-510-853-2007
> blog: malina.diatrope.com
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--
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