Thank you for your response and reference. I can understand that
Mcluhan and Marx are different, but they both focused the analysis of
the media (Mcluhan) and the nature of the machine (c 13 in The
Capital, I) in the extension of the human capabilities. This is a path
of investigation im following.
I will appreciate if you can send me more information about the book
you mentioned, if it is possible.
Thanks so much.
ricardov
Ricardo Vega
www.ricardov.cl
www.artnumerica.net
08 191 5577, Santiago, Chile
2012/1/28 Adrian Guzman <shaman@paranoici.org>:
> i ike mcuhan ery much ad aso marcuse but i reer the irst i beiee mcuhan and
> marx are uncupatibe since one reer to ight and anther to matter indeed i
> beiee they are n opposite sides but i ound an interesting book about this
> topic unortunatey its ony in german i bought it about 6 yars ago in berin
> and its caed media marx
>
> Simón ha scritto:
>>
>> Maybe in other theorist, the relation is more clear. Two names:
>> - Herbert Marcuse, in spanish the central book call El Hombre
>> Unidimensional.
>> - Lewis Mumford Tecnic and civilization, for me this book is the bible
>>
>> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>>
>> El 20-10-2011, a las 11:18, "Ricardo Vega (ricardov)"
>> <rvegamora@gmail.com> escribió:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Thank you Collete and Simon:
>>>
>>> In the chapter 13 , "Machinery and great industry", Karl Mark talk
>>> about the machine, making description about the parts of the machine
>>> and the role of the man in this proccess. Im trying to make
>>> connections between Marx and Mcluhan, because when I was reading "The
>>> Ccapital", always Mcluhan comes to my mind. Specially if we think in
>>> the context of new technologies, and the ""digital machines".
>>> Im in Barcelona, I hope I will go to Les effets McLuhan i
>>> Aix-en-Provence.
>>> Best.
>>> r
>>>
>>>
>>> Ricardo Vega
>>> www.ricardov.cl
>>> www.artnumerica.net
>>> 08 191 5577, Santiago, Chile
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2011/10/20 c.tron@voila.fr <c.tron@voila.fr>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello ricardo,
>>>> Happy that my message has got an interest for another center of the
>>>> global village.
>>>> Up to McLuhan, in the global village there is no more center and
>>>> peripheric places but equal centers that interact together.
>>>> Interesting no ?
>>>> To answer about Marx and the reading by McLuhan, the only thing I read
>>>> from him is that he notes that Marx should have concentrated his refelexions
>>>> on electric technologies that organize the future of our civilizations
>>>> rather than the mechanical production that represents the past organization.
>>>> He thinks that Marx's struggle could have been stronger in consideration of
>>>> these changes, that also put changes on the work and what, where it is, and
>>>> how it is organized, what are the structures, and where is the richness.
>>>> that's all I am able to say, but maybe some people have some ideas.
>>>> Feel free to exchange more
>>>> Colette
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Message du 20/10/11 à 15h16
>>>>> De : "Ricardo Vega (ricardov)"
>>>>> A : "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS"
>>>>> Copie à : "coletron"
>>>>> Objet : Re: [Yasmin_discussions] MCLUHAN EFFECT
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello:
>>>>> A small presentation aout me. My name is Ricardo Vega, from Santiago
>>>>> de Chile. Now I`m in Barcelona to study DataViz. i worked during 6
>>>>> years in the Spanish Cultural Center in Santiago, coordinating new
>>>>> media, design and digital culture area, developing conferences,
>>>>> workshops, meetings, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for you interesting words Colette. Just a question:
>>>>> Does somebody knows if Mcluhan had readed or taken in consideration
>>>>> some ideas in Karl Marx's Capital?
>>>>> Where I can find information about this topic?
>>>>>
>>>>> thank yo so much, Best
>>>>> r
>>>>>
>>>>> Ricardo Vega
>>>>> www.ricardov.cl
>>>>> www.artnumerica.net
>>>>> 08 191 5577, Santiago, Chile
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/10/16 roger malina :
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> from colette tron
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Topic 2 : A cultural and technological challenge, the business of
>>>>>>> the artists
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For McLuhan, but I guess for thinking in general of the relation
>>>>>> between the man and technology, each invention and introduction of a
>>>>>> technology in the society, in the every day life creates such a
>>>>>> transformation that it makes some kind of revolution : on the sensory
>>>>>> system, nervous system, perception, cognition sensitivity…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These influences and consequences have been treated on different
>>>>>> levels by the anthropologist Leroy-Ghouran, the sociologist Gilbert
>>>>>> Simondon, the scientist Jean-Pierre Changeux, the philosopher Bernard
>>>>>> Stiegler, etc, only for France, and of course by McLuhan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and after him in the field of neuroculture and neuroaesthetic by
>>>>>> Derrick de Kerckhove who was his associate.
>>>>>> McLuhan considered the technologies as « extensions of man ». So, as
>>>>>> prosthesis, medias and machines are, up to him, a part of the body.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And he even thought that sooner or later the medias would be under the
>>>>>> skin. That means inside us. The augmented man has thus artificial
>>>>>> organs that can be the computer, the clothes, the television,
>>>>>> writing, sensors, and so on, technologies that make the environment
>>>>>> and the culture of body and mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He wrote that « the new medias and new technologies through which we
>>>>>> amplify and extand ourselves are huge operations on the social body »
>>>>>> and that « this is the whole system that undergoes a transformation. »
>>>>>> Each new one moves the intersensory relations. And thus, the cultural
>>>>>> habits.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To understand the medias, and its effects, McLuhan (wrote his book of
>>>>>> course, but) argued a certain distance with them. A distance to
>>>>>> perceive the changes, to dominate the moves, to diminish the impact or
>>>>>> the shock, and to think the future of the civilisation. To accept the
>>>>>> challenge of technological and cultural changes, McLuhan trust the
>>>>>> artists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the human history, the critic or the adaptation to the new
>>>>>> extensions of man in the private and social life have not been made
>>>>>> easily except by the consciousness of the artists, said McLuhan : «
>>>>>> The artist is able to capture the message of the cultural and
>>>>>> technological challenge a long time before the impact of the
>>>>>> transformation can be felt. »
>>>>>> Maybe we can have commentary and exchange about some
>>>>>> propositions by
>>>>>> McLuhan about the important role of the artists in the changes of
>>>>>> culture through media and technologies, and their place
>>>>>> inexperimentation, research, science and society, or social body in
>>>>>> the words of McLuhan. A place that McLuhan defended instead of
>>>>>> considering art as entertainment. « I would like to know what would
>>>>>> happen if suddenly we take art for what it is really. »
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the chapter « The challenge and the fall » (Understanding medias)
>>>>>> here are some of the McLuhan's sentences (approximative translation) :
>>>>>> « In the age of electricity, it is nothing to talk about the artists
>>>>>> as persons that anticipate their era. Our technology is also ahead to
>>>>>> our time, if we accept to see it as it is. The artist has to leave his
>>>>>> ivory tower to go to the control tower of the society, in order to
>>>>>> avoid the accident… Like there is the university for the scientific
>>>>>> organization of knowledge, the artist is essential for the direction,
>>>>>> the analyze, the understanding of the forms and structures of life
>>>>>> created by the electric technology. »
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - « In all fields, the one of the science and the one of the
>>>>>>> humanities, the artist is a man that understand the meaning of his action
>>>>>>> and of the knowledge of his era. He is the man of the global lucidity. »
>>>>>>> - « The artist can compensate for the sensory relations before the
>>>>>>> shock of a new technology anaesthetize the conscient modes of action… If
>>>>>>> people could be convinced that art is a way to know in advance and precisely
>>>>>>> the psychologic and social effects of the next technology, won't they make
>>>>>>> themselves artists ? Or would
>>>>>>> applie themeselves to translate new forms or art into a social
>>>>>>> navigation map ? »
>>>>>>> - « Experimental art gives information to mankind with
>>>>>>> accuracy on the following attacks on their mind that will procure their own
>>>>>>> technologies… These parts of ourselves that we project outside of us under
>>>>>>> the form of inventions are some attempts to compensate some collective
>>>>>>> pressure. But the medicine can generate a bigger
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> pain. Here the artist can learn to us to absorb the knock. »
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a certain part of this chapter, Mc Luhan notices that if we
>>>>>> continue to consider the extensions of the body as external and
>>>>>> independant from us, we will fall down on each « banana skin of the
>>>>>> technology ». So we have to keep awake and to pay attention to it.
>>>>>> With the help of artists, we should manage to take up the challenge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In this framework, I would like to imagine which function can take
>>>>>> art and artists in the process of research and invention, innovation,
>>>>>> creation ? Since and after electric age, what kind of relation between
>>>>>> art and science, technology and culture, have been made and can be
>>>>>> constitued for the future ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is technology a « pharmakon » (cf B.Stiegler) and how the artistic
>>>>>>> consciousness can interfere, alert, awake the society ? Is it the role of
>>>>>>> art to comprehend sensitive changes in order to take care of it or to shock
>>>>>>> by representing new sensory situations ?
>>>>>>> How can art and science can collaborate to create a « good
>>>>>>> » technology and a safe and sustainable society ? How to respect body and
>>>>>>> mind in the conception of
>>>>>>> technical objects born from the science, with the consciousness of
>>>>>>> both science and art ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Colette Tron
>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> o
>>>> ___________________________________________________________
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