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Monday, November 11, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 18, Issue 1

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THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DIGEST

Today's Topics:

1. WWWWASP Discussion (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
2. WWWWASP Discussion - Reply to Annick Bureaud 2?
(YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)

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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 11:22:22 +0800
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: "=?utf-8?B?eWFzbWluX2Rpc2N1c3Npb25zQG50bGFiLmdy?="
<yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion
Message-ID:
<mailman.6.1573406761.22026.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Jing (CJ) Chen, Professor of Arts,  Associate Director of the Art and Cultural Innovation and Creativity (ACIC) Lab, Nanjing University. 

Based at the School of Arts in Nanjing University, the Art and Cultural Innovation and Creativity (ACIC) Lab is pursuing to merge the gap between the arts/culture and science/technology and provide the hands-on opportunities for non-trained students from the different disciplines to work together and with experienced scientists, researchers, and technicians from universities, enterprises and institutes. We launched this project in 2017 and have organized a series of workshops on Virtual Reality, Artificial Intelligence, Service Design, Geographic Information System, and Text mining, etc. and more than 500 students have been taken the courses and started their projects.

The idea behind the lab is that we think students are potential scientists and artists without a fixed and stable indemnity of scientists or artists. They may work in different fields but with the scientist thinking, creative ability, artistic aesthetics, and digital literacy, which are embedded in the workshop, courses, seminars, and lectures designed by us. The lab plays the role of platform and coordination and provides the opportunity for students to try something new, get in touch with some person they want to know and experience things they never expected.

However, doing this in China or Chinese universities is not very easy. Firstly, we have a very strong discipline tradition so all the resources are distributed based on the disciplines. The lab is cross-disciplinary and requests the fund and faculties from multi-disciplines. It?s even harder for us to collaborate with scientists in our university than others. Secondly, the students we recruited are mostly from humanities rather than sciences and engineering which causes additional difficulties for teaching since humanities students don?t know much about the technology, software, and tools. We are adjusting our strategies all the time to find a better way to get students into the environment comfortably and confidently. Thirdly, the collaboration between us and scientists in China is still rare. It happens mostly at the individual level and hard to get funds supported. The biggest obstacle is the revaluation of the outcome. The two or three culture idea is widely accepted by scientists, artists/humanists, which make them don?t think it?s necessary to talk to each other. Recently because the AI booming in China, more scientists and artists notice the value of the combination of art and technology but there is still a big gap between the two sides. They don?t know how to talk to each other due to lacking understanding.

I have faith in young people but I also think what we do is important. If we can bridge the gap and provide more dialogue opportunities for artists and scientist then the young people would be easier to get understand and practice with two parts without fear and hesitation.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 13:09:48 +1100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion - Reply to Annick
Bureaud 2?
Message-ID:
<mailman.7.1573406824.22026.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I had the feeling that my last reply to Annick was slightly soft, in the
sense to propose a kind of balance between micro-actions and institutional
engagement. And this could be kind of good practice: equilibrium, balance,
dialogue, ... However, maybe in our highly conflicting present we should
try, or to push to harder statements. Let s see how it goes:

In the same direction of the re-designing science program, I think Art/Sci
institutionalization could serve as a framework to stop a possible
fake-science scenario. This is just entering into a deep political action,
although educational too. Nowadays, science research is governed by
excellence and elite criteria, and I m sure that the same is happening in
all research areas. So, we are quantifying our research validity by
rankings, impact factors, number of papers, ... We are just including
marketing and economical criteria into our science method, as for example
pay to publish, publish or perish, ... All of this is just re-defining the
meaning of science productivity, and indirectly could be is affecting the
self science core: our methods.

With our actual stability crisis (it is very hard nowadays to find a
permanent research position, ..., and being general, to ind a permanent
job) it is very difficult (may be even impossible, or just even
intentionally not possible) to not deviate our science objectives just to a
personal CV objectives, which in practice now is occupying most of our
careers time. Someone could say that this happened always, and in some
extent can be true. Not sure. But maybe nowadays is much more intense. You
can just check the medium age to be established in academia. > 40. But,
academia, ... this word is intriguing too. Does it mean nowadays anything?
So, may be now science is just personal company business? Isn't this what
entrepreneur means? What does it mean Academia today?

All these, for sure, is affecting to our methods, and research approaches.
Today it is much more relevant to publish a super high impact factor paper,
than to publish a relevant scientific result. And this is feed by our
market trajectory. One can argue that one (market) just feeds the second
(scientific result), as it happens in the housing market (the higher the
price, the higher the quality). However, in my point of view, we are very
close to just establish a new fake word here: fake science.

This can be a very long debate, but in my point of view the art/sci program
could modify, or maybe amplify, these frictions inside science. With
art/sci institutional support you can pull the flow in one direction, or
just in the opposite. Art/sci inside science can be understood just as
another marketing tool, just to visualize and sell in a more attractive
fashion our "personal-named-company" products, or, just in the other case,
serve as a stimulus to recover a different approach to define our science
productivity, or to recover it from the past.

In summary, Art/Sci institutional support could help for the science
activism, long term productivity and knowledge not market biased, to join
directions like open science, slow science, citizen science..., where may
be an old understanding of what science mean is trying to be preserved. In
essence, Art/Sci institutional support it can help not only to do better
science (via including higher technological ways to represent, visualize
and interpret data), but to preserve the sense of its own long term
productivity, where the outcomes are not easily visualized, and where
difference and diversity are necessary research items.

Of course this can be done via the micro-actions too, and maybe even more
intensely, or more effectively, as it is kind of conflicting social issue.
But for sure it could represent an opportunity window in this direction.
So, may be the balance approach is not bad at all.

Best wishes,

Guillermo.

------------------------------

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End of Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 18, Issue 1
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Friday, November 8, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 17, Issue 4

Thursday, November 7, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 17, Issue 3

Wednesday, November 6, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2

Tuesday, November 5, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 17, Issue 1

Send Yasmin_discussions mailing list submissions to
yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr

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THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DIGEST

Today's Topics:

1. WWWWASP Discussion. First week summary. (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
2. Re: WWWWASP Discussion (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
3. Re: WWWWASP Discussion (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 23:36:51 +1100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion. First week summary.
Message-ID:
<mailman.15.1572873269.1824.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear Yasminers,

We have completed our first discussion week, where the invited discussants
have sent us some of their thoughts in bits and pieces format, about the
present strategies of the art and science interaction. I would like to
summarize here some important statements from their interesting comments:

- As a first note, I would like to highlight that their comments
come from different research specializations, different cultures and
different geographical zones. This represents a self-contained exchange,
and I really would like to thank to all of them their words and
availability. Just this kind of sharing between borders, countries,
languages, and self-experiences, is an accomplished objective.

- Vicky Sowry, from Australia, started our discussion with very
interesting points. She addressed some of the peculiarities when
participating in art/sci residences. Being one of the fortunate
participants in this kind of residences, I know that Vicky?s words are very
important: ?Accidental and random connections can take a project in
entirely new directions. The other thing is that, if you know what the
outcomes are going to be at the outset ? our residencies are not for you?.
Her statement was kindly illustrated with some examples. I think this is
kind of crucial practice, because here we are not speaking about absence of
productivity. Instead, we are supporting and allowing the space for an
alternative conception of productivity. So, in these residences we are
opening new spaces for multiple creativity scenarios, where the official
disciplinary spaces are much more reticent to do it.

- Jadwiga Charzy?ska, from Poland, follow the discussion
introduction reviewing the exciting example of the ART+SCIENCE MEETING
project. She gives us the great opportunity to briefly walk through the
project, making special attention to the general culture connections. I
have felt very important her statement about social implications: ?Artists
and scientist are working together in matters of extending spectrum of
explorations ? their researches involve ethical and social problems.?
Etical and social problems can serve as a mutual framework for our
interdisciplinary collaborations. In many cases, these side (but always
present) implications are not clearly addressed in some of our research
expertise, and when we meet in this broad-spectrum relationship, we make it
more visible. In my opinion, our art/sci interaction helps to enhance our
societal commitment.

- Next, Gustavo Ariel Schwartz, from San Sebastian, in Spain, but
with main roots in Argentina, give us the opportunity to review some of the
challenges that he found when organizing these interdisciplinary forums. In
his case, he directs the ?Mestizajes program?, where science and writing
concepts and experiences are mixed to propose an alternative understanding
of creativity. However, he pointed towards a general problem in our
interdisciplinary spaces. The usual spaces for these collaborations are
mainly science research scenarios, where artists are engaged to the science
research, but it is much more difficult to see the opposite case. This can
be related to the point that Vicky address, ?What kind of productivity is
accepted in our disciplinary methodologies? ?Is this biased by any societal
requirement?

- On last Friday we had the opportunity to follow one step forward
in our discussion with Salome Cuesta, from Spain, but this time just in the
Mediterranean coastal side, Valencia. She used an interesting workshop in
Paris to emphasize in two key concepts: educational spaces (at different
stages) and working methodologies, as for example workshop oriented group
learning. In my opinion this is an example of how our micro-actions are
starting to re-design our methodologies, as all these new spaces that are
flouring nowadays (DIY garage, Hackathons, Citizen Science, Maker Spaces,
?) are getting accepted and in many cases included in the official
institutions. May be here the problems is the question of accessibility:
who is being able to participate in these new scenarios?

- Next step comes from ?pure? intermixed voice, Joao Silveira, from
Brasil, but currently working in France, with dancing and science
pharmacist background, highlighted an important statement. In his words:
?Should Art/Sci be inside a ?silo??? Here there is not a single answer, and
hopefully we will share our thoughts in the following weeks. So, is it
possible to define a new discipline which inner nature is
multidisciplinary? Did this happen before with other disciplines? Is this
easily happening today within our networked and collaborative disciplinary
maps?

In summary, in our first week we have opened some of the important topics
and interesting questions of this mixed and elastic field, which comes from
thoughts and words from different parts of the planet and different
personal experiences. But we still have two of our invited discussants
introductory posts to publish and read, which it would happen in our next
week.

At the same time, today I would like to invite to all Yasmin community to
start to send us your reflections and thoughts. This is an entirely open
debate, which it will be strongly enriched with comments from all possible
edges, spaces, cultures and disciplines.

Last but not least, I would like to remember to all of you the basic
protocol to send to us your contributions. You need to send an e-mail to
the following direction (: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr) with ?WWWWASP
Discussion? as subject. We would like to ask you to include the name to the
post author that you are commenting or answering at the beginning, and we
will be pleased if you can remove any previous text in your e-mail. This
will help a lot to the general text readability for our digest mode daily
review.

Best wishes,

Guillermo.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 00:51:49 +0100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion
Message-ID:
<mailman.16.1572874044.1824.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Dear Yasminers,

I would like to jump on Joao statement. I believe this is a
crucial statement.

He writes : "Should ArtSci be inside a ?silo??
On one hand, to be inside a silo could be prejudicial for
the transdisciplinary philosoph. On the other hand, we have
in the contemporary history many examples of well-developed
disciplines that were born from the fusion of other areas as
Biochemistry (biology + chemistry)" and he lists several of
this "duo".

This relates to the question I am asking myself at the
moment: what would we teach if we were teaching art-science
? A methodology?
As far as I know in the various existing programmes, people
are not teaching artscience, they are teaching bioart,
physics and art, etc. = some specific scientific disciplines
in relation to art.

The thing is that neither "art" nor "science" is a
"discipline", both include many "disciplines" as Joao
himself points by listing several combined scientific
disciplines.

I would like to throw another ball in the discussion and to
everyone here: why do we so much want that something like an
artscience field comes into being? an artscience discipline?
Why do we want those creations to be in universities ? Why
do we want to "institutionalize" everything?
Could the answer just be: to get the damn funding 'cause if
you don't wear a label and fit into a box it's kinda hard to
get the coins?

I have so much questions ... but I am not even sure I am
allowed to post that early in the discussion!

Annick

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 15:09:49 +0100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion
Message-ID:
<mailman.18.1572909754.1824.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

That's an interesting point. It's possible that arts-science is not yet
established because the volume of putative value is not obvious to deciders;
in value we can put "papers and citations", "economical impact (university
fees, patents, industrial shift...)", "social impact", "cultural an
influence impact".
So: have you tried to create such department in your own university ? If it
failed, what was the dean arguments ?

Mathieu P

Le sam. 2 nov. 2019 ? 00:23, YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
a ?crit :

> Dear Yasminers,
>
> We follow one step forward in our first week introduction to our discussion
> topic. Today, Joao Silveira, from Brazil, send us some clues about his
> thoughts.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Guillermo.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Joao Silveira Introductory text
>
>
> As mentioned, there are some residency programs connecting artists and
> scientists around the world as well as more and more interactions inside
> the universities. However, ArtScience is usually a peripheral activity and
> still far from institutionalized activity. This opens the question: Should
> ArtSci be inside a ?silo?? On one hand, to be inside a silo could be
> prejudicial for the transdisciplinary philosophy and in the end, ArtSci
> could end just as another ?discipline?. On the other hand, we have in the
> contemporary history many examples of well-developed disciplines that were
> born from the fusion of other areas as Biochemistry (biology + chemistry);
> Astrophysics (Astronomy + Physics); Biophysics (biology + Physics);
> bioengineering (biology + engineering), etc. So, why not ArtScience as an
> established area of practice, research, and education?
>
>
> Joao Silveira
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
> http://ntlab.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr
>

------------------------------

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------------------------------

End of Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 17, Issue 1
*************************************************

Saturday, November 2, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6

Friday, November 1, 2019

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 16, Issue 5

Send Yasmin_discussions mailing list submissions to
yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Yasmin_discussions digest..."

THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DIGEST

Today's Topics:

1. WWWWASP Discussion (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
2. scientists in residence ? :discussion around gustavo schwart
initial discussion on WWWASP (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2019 12:06:56 +0100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] WWWWASP Discussion
Message-ID:
<mailman.12.1572558947.1824.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Hello,

Art / Science practices are becoming important in the international
cultural space. One good and recent example of these practices was the
exhibition "La Fabrique du vivant", at Center Pompidou, Paris, where the
artistic practices and science research were focused to discover new
forms of interaction within the fields of life sciences, neuroscience
and synthetic biology, all linked together. At the same time, a second
event was organized: "Behavioral Matter", located in the hall of the
Center Pompidou and sponsored by the Chaire arts & sciences of the ?cole
Polytechnique, l'Ecole Nationale Sup?rieure des Arts D?coratifs (EnsAD -
Universit? PSL) and The Daniel and Nina Carasso Foundation. From my
point of view,?this latest event was even more relevant. ?It was
designed as a workshop, with a radically multidisciplinary approach,
based on the artistic research to explore, through practice, the idea of
"behavior" in relation to the contemporary concept of matter and
materials, as well as objects and techniques, and living or semi-living
systems. More than 70 participants gathered from different countries
(Germany, Australia, Canada, Spain, United States, France, Italy, Great
Britain , etc.) and worked together, including the active and constant
participation of the public.
We could address another relevant exhibitions, such as "Cu?ntica" at the
CCCB, Barcelona, or the international exhibition project
"Eco-Visionarios", or educational activities and thematic tours such as
"Ingenios" at the Thyssen-Bornemisza National Museum,? Despite the
visibility and growing interest in these proposals is necessary to
consider what mechanisms we need to sponsor to encourage
interdisciplinary work in all areas of knowledge, starting at school,
but especially promote it at college, seeking for the involvement of
cultural institutions and the aggregation of companies.
If we add to all of this the complexity and the constant change of our
world, we have a lot of work to do ahead of us.

Links:
http://bit.ly/2onmL7f
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/GO9CC81Vq2CzGoQBin3-j-?domain=bit.ly>
http://chaire-arts-sciences.org/?lang=en
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/Rmb3C91W8rCM0GxrFE4sOH?domain=chaire-arts-sciences.org>
https://reflectiveinteraction.ensadlab.fr/
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/h7NcC0YKgRsMx14YF21mWS?domain=reflectiveinteraction.ensadlab.fr>
https://www.cccb.org/en/exhibitions/file/quantum/230323
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/AmY-CgZ05Jfm3MN4T3F4fu?domain=cccb.org>
http://www.mataderomadrid.org/ficha/10087/eco-visionarios.html
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/vRIuCjZ12Rf3rWAZF1TQX4?domain=mataderomadrid.org>
https://www.museothyssen.org/en/visit/tours/ingenios
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/jqunCk815RCrEx4ot8A8um?domain=museothyssen.org>

--
Salom? Cuesta
Dir. Dpto. Escultura
Universitat Polit?cnica de Val?ncia

http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7898-8093

----- CONTACTO----
email: sacuesta@esc.upv.es
Tel: (34) 96 38 77 007 Ext. Int. 74801/14825
M?vil: 689 285 254
Fax:(34) 96 387 74 89
--------------------------
Universitat Polit?cnica de Val?ncia: http://www.upv.es
Departamento Escultura: http://www.upv.es/entidades/DE/index-es.html
Grupo de Investigaci?n Laboratorio de Luz: http://www.laboluz.com
M?ster Oficial en Artes Visuales y Multimedia:
http://www.artesvisualesymultimedia.com
http://www.facebook.com/masterAVM

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 12:34:55 -0500
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] scientists in residence ? :discussion
around gustavo schwart initial discussion on WWWASP
Message-ID:
<mailman.13.1572582235.1824.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Gustavo
thank you for your initial statement which raises a number of issues

let me react to your comment: This also defines the ?who?, in the sense
that artists can easily apply for residences or short stays at ?scientific
scenarios? but scientists cannot do the same in the other direction.

indeed one of the asymetries in artscience practice (there are many) is
that there are now many artist in residence programs in science setting (
eg CERN etc etc) but very very few scientist in residence in cultural
contexts.

One that i helped set up is the IMERA artscience residencies which are
open to both artists and scientists(
https://imera.hypotheses.org/programme-art-science-societe )=this program
is led by Pascale Hurtado and she now has several examples where the
involvement of scientists in art projects actually led to new scientific
discoveries. This kind of evidence is part of the 'why' of wwwasp as well
as the "where"

the other scientist in residence program is the one between the djerassi
foundation and leonardo/isast known as "scientific Delirium madness "(
http://djerassi.org/apply/scientific-delirium-madness-2/ ) in which there
are 6 artists in residence and 6 artists in residence, including recently
javiera tejerina-risso ( an IMERA fellow) and marco nardelli, a theoretical
materials scientists (who also was a resident at IMERA)

let me joke of the name of the program Scientific Delirium Madness refers
to the fact that scientists who engage in artscience, often take
professional risks that are not helpful to their promotion in jobs in
scientific institutions-yes they must be temporarily mad to invest so much
time in artscience activities ( see Ian Hacking on temporary madness and
how to build social-pscyhological niches where 'temporary madness' like
artscience can occur in safe places ( or artscience temporary autonomous
zones ASTAZ?)

i wonder if other yasmin members have examples of scientist in residence
programs in cultural institutions

roger malina

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:48:10 +0200

YASMIN discussion - Introductory text
from Gustavo:
What I observe in general, is that the ?where?, the space where the Art/Sci
interchange takes place, is biased towards scientific scenarios
(laboratories, research institutes, Universities, etc.). It is not so
common to have this kind of interaction or hybridization in art museums,
main libraries or Humanities departments at the University.

Concerning to the acquisition of their scientific and/or artistic
knowledge, my feeling (and my own experience) is that it is by far
self-teaching and therefore it is hardly free of errors and mistakes (in
both cases). In this sense, a much stronger interaction between artists and
scientists could substantially improve the knowledge that each one would
have about the other field. This interaction could be materialized not only
by offering ?courses? (science for artists or art for scientists) but also
(and mainly) by the face-to-face interaction between scientists and artists
in workshops, conferences, meeting and informal talks. There is still a
long way to go in this sense.

----------------------------------------
Dr. Gustavo A. Schwartz
Roger is in Dallas
whatsapp, eechat , messenger+1-510-853-2007 and +33680459447 in
europe.This email address for leonardo related work,

------------------------------

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