Roger, Aprille, Rasheed, Paul
I believe it's not just only a methodological question, neither a
technological aspect that pushes forward SEAD interactions. There are a lot
of types of enablors that could help create good SEAD experiences. We must
look at each of them carefully.
Briefly I would say that methodologies (how to research) depend on
epistemologies (what to research) and that depends on ontologies (what is
the real/ the beings). There are some pieces that fit together better than
the others, and others don't fit at all, or at least are really hard that
could work together. It's like a lego....
Some times, things work well together. For example Latour's Actor-Network
Theory (let's say, an epistemology) proved to fit great with etnography (a
methodology) as they shared also a great respect with material culture
status (ontology) and its agency in Science and Technology studies. That
time pieces fitted well and STS, Antropology, Etnography are taking
advantatge of this sinergy. As it is taking its course in Media Studies and
elsewhere.
Other times you don't realize they don't fit until it's too late. You start
working with somebody from another discipline, you set up what to do and
some methodologies and techniques to work together, then you start having
epistemological discussions about what is and what is not the object to
research - they migth tolerate differences or they migth not- and you end
up having trouble with ontologies -about what deserves to be studied as
it's relevant for the real...You did not know that before you started,
maybe there was a great personal feeling, or an ideal context for
developing a collaboration or collective work, but it simple did'nt worked
out because you hit the hard stone. As Rasheed pointed out some times the
"other side" doesn't share the same values, or doesn't tolerate/understand
other's values, and there's no point in collaboration.
For example, you are an artist trying to work with an Historian because you
both love Art, you both share great personal feeling and have an ideal
context for working together. You believe in the power of Art for enabling
Social transformation. But the Historian conception of History gives
relevance only to structure and Institutions as key agents in all changes,
and those changes can only be achieved through structural revolutions and
war. In that sense believes that Art is just a side-effect, and art and
the artists are secondary examples, not driving forces at all. That
Historian didn't believe in Art for social change that would lead into
political change and then to structural and institutional change. Then, if
they don't tolerate each other's point of departure, collaboration would
ultimately lead into failure.
And, this is just in a discoursive level, but as we've said, there are
other factors that are related with the "ecosistem" where those
collaborations operate: Political, Economic, Social, Ethical aspects that
influence definetivelly those possibilities....Mutual understanding of
those ecosystems' rules is needed. We migth take a look at all of them one
by one in order to recreate those enablers, but of course, SEAD
interactions not always produce valuable content "per se".... inter or
transdisciplinariety doesn't make it all into good as pointed out before.
I also like Paul's suggestion to continue discussion in clarification of
the questions arised by Rasheed.
Many thanks!
Pau
2012/7/11 roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>
> Pau
>
> let me pick on your topic of 'bridges' and consilience
>
> like you i think E O Wilson's concept of consilience turned out
> not to be very productive and rather totalising - am not very familiar
> with Gould's " conscilience of
> equal attention"
>
> but yes- one of the way to enable science/engineering to
> arts/design/humanities
> is to find these bridging concepts
>
> i have been reading recently in the field of translation studies and have
> found some interesting ideas- for instance of 'travelling concepts=
> but also the idea that un-translatability exists and one needs methods that
> are well established in cross cultural translation and now
> interdisciplinary
> translation ( or inter-media)
>
> there are bridges that are technological- when artists and scientists use
> the same tools then they start have overlapping epistemologies etc
>
> paul fishwick in his white paper looks at how gaming technologies are such
> a
> collaboration enabling tool
>
>
> http://seadnetwork.wordpress.com/white-paper-abstracts/abstracts/learning-computing-through-game-experiences/
>
> one area that is fertile right now is the science of complex networks which
> has been found to be productive across the science and humanities
>
> I do think that we need to start being more rigorous in discussing
> collaboration - as depending on the context ( interdisciplinary, multi
> disciplinary
> and trans-disciplinary) there need to be differing approaches- but
> certainly
> collaboration as a learned skill is a bridging problem also
>
> it would perhaps be interesting to inventory these bridge areas that are
> currently enabling collaboration between science/engineering with
> arts/design
>
> here in marseille the area of history and philosophy of science is rather
> strong and i have found some of the discussions interesting especially
> since history and philosophy of science is very disconnected from the doing
> of science in general - at lunch today we were discussing meta-mathematics
> and meta-philosophy !
>
> Roger
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Pau Alsina <palsinag@uoc.edu>
>
> Roger,
>
> > In the book by allen repko on interdisciplinary theory and practice
> > one of the things he does is discuss how different kinds of scientists
> > have different cultures
> > eg observational sciences like astronomy
> > vs experimental sciences like chemistry
> > vs field sciences like ecology
> > vs mathematical sciences like complex networks
> >
> > they are all sciences but in fact the scientists have different
> practices.
> > does it make sense to combine them all or should we create
> > translation methods between culturs of practice ?
> >
> > in arts and humanities we also find similar variations on how
> > the discipline deals with information about the world
> > and intervening in the world= time based arts differ
> > from architecture etc
> >
>
> You mean creating "bridges"? I believe, as Loius Bec says, that art itself
> is a rare transformational agent that would do that function.
>
> Those other "methodological" or "epistemological" bridges are really hard
> to imagine as a universal set of tools. But of course there are
> "practice-based-theories" that migth prove better bridges than others. This
> would lead into another deep philosophical debate....(that I also enjoy a
> lot, but migth be a whole new focus of discussion)
>
> You migth not agree with Edgar O. Wilson's concept of consilience as it has
> proved to be reductionist, and at the end not taking seriously all fields
> of knowledge equally. But do you think that something not just theoretical
> could came out from what Stephen Jay Gould says about "conscilience of
> equal attention"? Are there already methodology or epistemology tools
> coming out from that? Some techniques or strategies for "jumping together"
> as Gould says?
>
> Just wondering...
>
>
>
> >
> > Anway i know that the FECYT report and the process that led to
> > it was very useful in spain= as are other efforts internationally
> >
> > for instance in the USA the mellon foundation has just funded a major
> > project to promote integrating arts practice into the research university
> >
> > http://artsengine.umich.edu/
> >
> > ArtsEngine National has been awarded a $500,000, 3.5 year grant from
> > the Andrew W. Mellon
> > Foundation to create the first comprehensive guide to best practices
> > in the integration of arts
> > practice in U.S. research universities. To be published in Fall 2015,
> > the guide is to identify models,
> > obstacles, implementation strategies, costs, and impact on students
> > and faculty as well as on
> > research, practice, and teaching in other knowledge areas.
> >
> > With this award, the Mellon Foundation has enabled the national
> > network to make major progress
> > toward our mission of integrating arts practice into the research
> > university.
> >
> > This activity of course is a heads on collision between the "studio
> > based" artists practice
> > versus the research model for the arts ( and all the debate on to PhD
> > or not to PhD )
> >
>
>
> As you already know In Europe there is the Studiolabs innitaitive
> http://www.studiolabproject.eu/ that migth work quite in the same way, am
> i
> right?
>
>
> Pau
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
> to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
> name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked.
> Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options
> page").
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>
>
> --
> Roger Malina
> I am in France at the moment
> 33(0)6 80 45 94 47
>
> Announcing new version with videos of
> Leonardo EBOOK on Arts Humanities and Complex Networks
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007S0UA9Q
>
> Announcing Leonardo Party in Los Angeles during Siggraph.
> Aug 5-9 If you would like to be invited contact me.
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to.
> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
> password in the fields found further down the page.
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on
> the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>
--
Pau Alsina González
Professor dels Estudis d'Arts i Humanitats
Universitat Oberta de Catalunya
Web Estudis: http://arts-humanitats.uoc.edu
Blog Postgrau: http://laboralcentrodearte.uoc.edu/
Revista Artnodes: http://artnodes.uoc.edu
(+34) 93 254 (2176) | palsinag@uoc.edu
Av. Tibidabo 39-43. Barcelona 08035
Blog: http://paualsina.wordpress.com
Twitter: @paualsina <http://twitter.com/#%21/paualsina>
Aquest missatge s´adreça exclusivament a qui va destinat i pot contenir
informació privilegiada o confidencial i dades de caràcter personal, la
difusió de les quals és regulada per la Llei orgànica de protecció de dades
i la Llei de serveis de la societat de la informació. Si no sou la persona
destinatària indicada (o la responsable de lliurar-lo a qui va destinat),
no heu de copiar aquest missatge ni lliurar-lo a tercers per cap concepte.
Si heu rebut aquest missatge per error o l´heu aconseguit per altres
mitjans, us demanem que ens ho comuniqueu immediatament per aquesta mateixa
via i l´elimineu irreversiblement.
Abans d´imprimir aquest missatge electrònic penseu en el medi ambient.
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
