Cristina:
Architecture serves as an excellent vehicle for discussion since it so
nicely connects
the arts with engineering. I would also recommend that we begin to look at
fundamental concepts that, on the surface, appear so obvious to
disciplines that
they tend not to question them. Here is a subset:
* What if the humanist scholar (or the computer scientist) produces
something that is
not a product of writing? [for both areas, the act of writing is
deeply engrained in
the culture--monographs for the former and "written" algorithms and
programs for
the latter]
* What if a work of art could have utility as well as deep perceptual
significance? Must
Kant's concept of "disinterest" rule the day? Why not art that is
engaging, meaningful
to the artist, and also useful? The choice of architecture
highlights this friction with
some suggesting that a building is "not art" and so forth.
* What if "aesthetic" to the mathematician could mean something
perceptual, and to
the artist something useful and of the same sort of elegance one
speaks of when referring
to a nice proof?
Perhaps, when we cross boundaries, we need deep role reversals of this
sort. Real
shocks to the system. We tend to take a lot of discipline-specific
ontological and
epistemological conditions for granted and rarely question them.
-p
On 7/6/2012 7:10 PM, cristina miranda wrote:
Roger,
Usually life problems always imply and require multidisciplinary
approaches, levels and contributions to understand and to deal with
them in a fully way: we take into consideration different needs,
either pshycological, economical, sociological, scientific, etc. In
the same way in any "scientific" result there appear millions of
ressonances of all kinds from ethical to political and society, as a
whole, is implied. There is no science disconnected to society, nor
science disconnected to the scientist's
cultural-institutional-political background as a person. Even in the
choice of a subject there is already a personal implication of gender,
social class and culture, not to talk about the political bias.
Talking from the point of view of an architect, and urban planner,
that is also an artist, and a researcher, a theorist and a teacher,
and, a rooted-foreigner multicultural person, I would like to focus on
architecture and invite us to think that architecture and urbanism are
complex question-based or problem-based fields (the city, urban space,
a building, etc) in which different expertises (in fact very
specialized ones) and social layers dialog and contribute to the
construction of an integrated work-space-experience.
I wonder if this experience in architecture and urban planning, that
is to say, this kind of collective collaboration around one complex
"question" or "problem" whatever scale it is, could be useful to
analyse and to think of how different expertises could collaborate
and merge their specific and highly especialized knowledge fields into
an integrated complex problem, or project or aim.
So, what I am proposing is that experts should keep their
specialization (without loosing sight of the whole) in order to fully
contribute to a collective question/problem, but need to develop
sensitive interacting languages, bridges and instruments for dialog.
Each field should prepare students of any field to dialog with other
fields. Something like giving people the "language" with which to
communicate. However, this level of conversation requires to bring the
discussion to a more abstract form than the one that is required to
deal within each culture of practice, culture of sub-field of science,
engineering, humanities or art.
I suggest to develop question-based networks, problem-based networks,
not discipline-centred networks or multi-discipline-centred networks.
Question-based networks function like open nodes of dialogical
collaboration between specialized contributors. So the model could be
groups of experts that are deeply grounded in different fields but are
not closed because they are prepared to open different channels in any
required direction at any time. For instance: the problem of identity.
Each field has a different approach towards identity, from the genetic
code to art representations this is a question that travels many
fields. So, identity could be a "question" to base a problem-based
network to be developed in different fields, across faculties.
So, if each faculty deals with a chain of coordinated "questions" or
"problems" each expert can relate to other fields in an easier way
because at least this means refering to a centre of concern that is
multidisciplinarily shared. At educative institutional level this
would imply a kind of familiarization of students with other fields
during the formative process, a kind of "Erasmus" between disciplines
to allow students to circulate more inside their own universities and
be able to get first hand experience of this dialog. Another
possibility of this problem-centred collaboration is to allow
interdisciplinary collaboration around projects during the formative
period (for instance, the last project of an engineer could be done
together with an artist but each one keeps their expertise deeply
rooted to their respective fields. What is multidisciplinar and hybrid
is the result and the capacity of dialog of the experts in order to
work together in collaboration around problems that lie in-between
science, engineering, art and design.
Which could be these questions that travel across disciplines and are
able to articulated deep thinking and experimentation from each field
creating resonances that can contribute to a more complex
understanding of our condition? For instance, identity is one of these
strong triggers around which question-based networks could form and
develop.
Thank you for this debate,
Cristina
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 7:10 PM, cristina miranda <
cristinamiranda.de@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roger,
>
> Usually life problems always imply and require multidisciplinary
> approaches, levels and contributions to understand and to deal with them in
> a fully way: we take into consideration different needs, either
> pshycological, economical, sociological, scientific, etc. In the same way
> in any "scientific" result there appear millions of ressonances of all
> kinds from ethical to political and society, as a whole, is implied. There
> is no science disconnected to society, nor science disconnected to the
> scientist's cultural-institutional-**political background as a person.
> Even in the choice of a subject there is already a personal implication of
> gender, social class and culture, not to talk about the political bias.
>
> Talking from the point of view of an architect, and urban planner, that is
> also an artist, and a researcher, a theorist and a teacher, and, a
> rooted-foreigner multicultural person, I would like to focus on
> architecture and invite us to think that architecture and urbanism are
> complex question-based or problem-based fields (the city, urban space, a
> building, etc) in which different expertises (in fact very specialized
> ones) and social layers dialog and contribute to the construction of an
> integrated work-space-experience.
>
> I wonder if this experience in architecture and urban planning, that is to
> say, this kind of collective collaboration around one complex "question" or
> "problem" whatever scale it is, could be useful to analyse and to think of
> how different expertises could collaborate and merge their specific and
> highly especialized knowledge fields into an integrated complex problem, or
> project or aim.
>
> So, what I am proposing is that experts should keep their specialization
> (without loosing sight of the whole) in order to fully contribute to a
> collective question/problem, but need to develop sensitive interacting
> languages, bridges and instruments for dialog. Each field should prepare
> students of any field to dialog with other fields. Something like giving
> people the "language" with which to communicate. However, this level of
> conversation requires to bring the discussion to a more abstract form than
> the one that is required to deal within each culture of practice, culture
> of sub-field of science, engineering, humanities or art.
>
> I suggest to develop question-based networks, problem-based networks, not
> discipline-centred networks or multi-discipline-centred networks.
> Question-based networks function like open nodes of dialogical
> collaboration between specialized contributors. So the model could be
> groups of experts that are deeply grounded in different fields but are not
> closed because they are prepared to open different channels in any required
> direction at any time. For instance: the problem of identity. Each field
> has a different approach towards identity, from the genetic code to art
> representations this is a question that travels many fields. So, identity
> could be a "question" to base a problem-based network to be developed in
> different fields, across faculties.
>
> So, if each faculty deals with a chain of coordinated "questions" or
> "problems" each expert can relate to other fields in an easier way because
> at least this means refering to a centre of concern that is
> multidisciplinarily shared. At educative institutional level this would
> imply a kind of familiarization of students with other fields during the
> formative process, a kind of "Erasmus" between disciplines to allow
> students to circulate more inside their own universities and be able to get
> first hand experience of this dialog. Another possibility of this
> problem-centred collaboration is to allow interdisciplinary collaboration
> around projects during the formative period (for instance, the last project
> of an engineer could be done together with an artist but each one keeps
> their expertise deeply rooted to their respective fields. What is
> multidisciplinar and hybrid is the result and the capacity of dialog of the
> experts in order to work together in collaboration around problems that lie
> in-between science, engineering, art and design.
>
> Which could be these questions that travel across disciplines and are able
> to articulated deep thinking and experimentation from each field creating
> resonances that can contribute to a more complex understanding of our
> condition? For instance, identity is one of these strong triggers around
> which question-based networks could form and develop.
>
> Thank you for this debate,
> Cristina
>
>
> El 06/07/12 13:27, roger malina escribió:
>
>> Pau
>>
>> thanks for your comment and in particular:
>>
>> But I have to say that in our case we didn't follow the track we opened
>> by
>>
>>> creating, for example, a Society, Association, or else that could have
>>> definitively helped to take the White Paper beyond that moment and
>>> continue
>>> to influence cultural policies and strengthen the community as a whole.
>>> We
>>> still have this in the list of key things to do.
>>>
>> I guess its not clear to me how this SEAD community of practice should
>> organise itself as a collective of interested people= there are dozens or
>> even hundreds of existing organisations and societies that do a great job.
>>
>> I suspect we need to think differently for two obvious reasons:
>>
>> a) we need to re invent professional organisations in the networked
>> world= maybe we need networks of networks rather than new
>> organisations. Professional societies are an invention of the
>> nineteenth century ( taking over from guilds etc).What is a twenty
>> first century model of how emerging communities of practice can
>> link to each other and be mutually supportive.
>>
>> b) the science/engineering to arts/design/humanities covers a vast
>> territory= and in fact in many cases dont share the same "culture
>> of practice" ( we see the disintegration under way in new media arts
>> because new media is not a conceptually clear category)
>>
>> In the book by allen repko on interdisciplinary theory and practice
>> one of the things he does is discuss how different kinds of scientists
>> have different cultures
>> eg observational sciences like astronomy
>> vs experimental sciences like chemistry
>> vs field sciences like ecology
>> vs mathematical sciences like complex networks
>>
>> they are all sciences but in fact the scientists have different practices.
>> does it make sense to combine them all or should we create
>> translation methods between culturs of practice ?
>>
>> in arts and humanities we also find similar variations on how
>> the discipline deals with information about the world
>> and intervening in the world= time based arts differ
>> from architecture etc
>>
>> Anway i know that the FECYT report and the process that led to
>> it was very useful in spain= as are other efforts internationally
>>
>> for instance in the USA the mellon foundation has just funded a major
>> project to promote integrating arts practice into the research university
>>
>> http://artsengine.umich.edu/
>>
>> ArtsEngine National has been awarded a $500,000, 3.5 year grant from
>> the Andrew W. Mellon
>> Foundation to create the first comprehensive guide to best practices
>> in the integration of arts
>> practice in U.S. research universities. To be published in Fall 2015,
>> the guide is to identify models,
>> obstacles, implementation strategies, costs, and impact on students
>> and faculty as well as on
>> research, practice, and teaching in other knowledge areas.
>>
>> With this award, the Mellon Foundation has enabled the national
>> network to make major progress
>> toward our mission of integrating arts practice into the research
>> university.
>>
>> This activity of course is a heads on collision between the "studio
>> based" artists practice
>> versus the research model for the arts ( and all the debate on to PhD
>> or not to PhD )
>>
>> So my question to your statement:
>> "But I have to say that in our case we didn't follow the track we opened
>> by
>>
>>> creating, for example, a Society, Association, or else that could have
>>> definitively helped to take the White Paper beyond that moment and
>>> continue
>>> to influence cultural policies and strengthen the community as a whole.
>>> We
>>> still have this in the list of key things to do."
>>>
>> is what is really missing in the organisational landscape ? how do
>> we network networks ? what are the roadblocks to implementing the
>> FECYT report recommendations ?
>>
>> roger
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Pau Alsina <palsinag@uoc.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Roger and Roc,
>>>
>>> I find truly valuable the creation and sharing of White Papers in AST, or
>>> better, SEAD as you named it.
>>>
>>> In the case of Spain I can say that it contributed to influence (slowly,
>>> and in some aspects) the cultural policies of some cities like Barcelona,
>>> Madrid or other places. The creation of a collectively organised
>>> discourse
>>> and a set of practical actions to do I believe has proved to be highly
>>> strategically relevant.
>>>
>>> But I have to say that in our case we didn't follow the track we opened
>>> by
>>> creating, for example, a Society, Association, or else that could have
>>> definitively helped to take the White Paper beyond that moment and
>>> continue
>>> to influence cultural policies and strengthen the community as a whole.
>>> We
>>> still have this in the list of key things to do.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Pau Alsina
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2012/7/4 Roc Parés i Burguès <roc.pares@upf.edu>
>>>
>>> Dear Roger and Dear Yasminers,
>>>>
>>>> Allow me to contribute to your SEAD project with this reference on a
>>>> similar initiative, leaded by José Luis Brea (1957-2010), in which I
>>>> had
>>>> the honour of participating, in 2007.
>>>>
>>>> "White Paper on the Interrelation of Art, Science and Technology in
>>>> Spain"
>>>> http://www.fecyt.es/fecyt/**docs/tmp/115539236.pdf<http://www.fecyt.es/fecyt/docs/tmp/115539236.pdf>
>>>>
>>>> Published by:
>>>> FECYT (Spanish Foundation for Science and Technology)
>>>> National Book Catalogue Number: M-9179-2007
>>>> ISBN: 978-84-690-3520-7
>>>>
>>>> This document is a bilingual edition in Spanish and in English and has
>>>> these four different chapters:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Training: Salomé Cuesta and Bárbaro Miyares (Polytechnic
>>>> University
>>>> of Valencia)
>>>> 2. Research: Juan Martín Prada (University of Cádiz)
>>>> 3. Production: Roc Parés (Pompeu Fabra University)
>>>> 4. Dissemination: Remedios Zafra (University of Seville)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pau Alsina (Open University of Catalonia) was the relator of the book
>>>> and
>>>> can provide more details on the whole process of preparation, discussion
>>>> and final elaboration of the conclusions, actions and recommendations to
>>>> Policy Makers gathered in this book.
>>>>
>>>> I hope you all find it useful.
>>>>
>>>> Warm regards,
>>>>
>>>> Roc Parés
>>>>
>>>> 2012/7/4 roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>
>>>>
>>>> Dear YASMINERS
>>>>>
>>>>> I am proposing that on YASMIN DISCUSSION LIST we have some discussions
>>>>> on the problems that we face when we try to establish collaboration
>>>>>
>>>> between
>>>>
>>>>> science/engineering with arts/design/humanities= with recommendations
>>>>> on
>>>>> how
>>>>> to overcome these problems. But also how to take advantage of the new
>>>>> opportunities.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is part of a project that a network of us have been developing ,
>>>>> SEAD, and will result in a report next summer 2013. Many reports have
>>>>> already been
>>>>> written and we will also be doing a meta-analysis of previous reports.
>>>>> We are working
>>>>> on a compilation of previous reports which you will find on our web
>>>>> site.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://sead.viz.tamu.edu/**projects/white_papers.html<http://sead.viz.tamu.edu/projects/white_papers.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> Beyond the discussion on YASMIN, we would be delighted if any YASMINERS
>>>>> would like to develop what we are calling a white paper- this is a
>>>>> document (or
>>>>> can be a video) which identifies problems and opportunities with
>>>>> specific
>>>>> recommendations on how to enable the solutions. I provide more details
>>>>> below
>>>>> but you can find our inititial web site at:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://sead.viz.tamu.edu/**projects/white_papers.html<http://sead.viz.tamu.edu/projects/white_papers.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are not already on the YASMIN DISCUSSION list you need to
>>>>>
>>>> subscribe
>>>>
>>>>> at
>>>>>
>>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/**mailman/listinfo/yasmin_**discussions<http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here follows additional details
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Malina
>>>>> YASMIN co moderator
>>>>>
>>>>> All of us encounter many roadblocks to develop
>>>>> the new opportunities that link science/engineering to
>>>>> arts/design/humanities
>>>>>
>>>>> In this international initiative we are calling for 'white papers' or
>>>>> short texts that identify problems
>>>>> and opportunities when one tries to have science/engineering
>>>>>
>>>> professionals
>>>>
>>>>> collaborate with those in arts/humanities/design.
>>>>>
>>>>> These reports can be very short- one page with one recommendation, or
>>>>> even utube videos- or longer, They can be written by one person or
>>>>> many.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are also compiling all the reports written on these issues in the
>>>>> last
>>>>> twenty years and will be doing a meta-analysis of the previous
>>>>> recommendations.
>>>>>
>>>>> We would be delighted if anyone on YASMIN would like to submit a short
>>>>> or
>>>>> longer white paper with recommendations. Please contact me at rmalina
>>>>> ( AT) alum.mit.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> More details below
>>>>> Roger Malina
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> SEAD Network for Sciences, Engineering, Arts and Design announces a
>>>>> call for White Papers on issues facing the international community
>>>>> seeking to enhance transdisciplinary collaboration
>>>>>
>>>>> We are seeking to survey concerns, roadblocks and opportunities, and
>>>>> solicit recommendations for enhancing collaboration between sciences
>>>>> and engineering with practioners in arts and design. These position
>>>>> papers will be submitted as part of a report to US National Science
>>>>> Foundation and the community
>>>>> from the SEAD network in the summer of 2013. With grateful
>>>>> appreciation for US funding, we recognize that activity connecting the
>>>>> sciences, engineering, to arts, and design is international and,
>>>>> furthermore, that global involvements are essential in today's
>>>>> economy. Therefore we are interested both in what US collaborators can
>>>>> learn from experiences in other countries, and vice versa, institution
>>>>> or region specific issues, and also in how to foster collaborations
>>>>> that bridge beyond regions . Cultural cross-fertilization
>>>>> via the SEAD network – whether from disciplinary, organizational or
>>>>> ethnic perspectives – is a vital component of our purpose and goals.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chair, Roger Malina, Leonardo/ISAST Chair Emeritus, Leonardo Governing
>>>>> Board Member. Distinguished Professor of Art and Technology at the
>>>>> University of Texas, Dallas
>>>>>
>>>>> Co-Chair, Carol Strohecker, Director, Center for Design Innovation,
>>>>> University of North Carolina system; Professor, Winston-Salem State
>>>>> University; Chief Research Officer & Instructor, UNC School of the
>>>>> Arts; SEAD Co-PI
>>>>>
>>>>> For more information:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://sead.viz.tamu.edu/**projects/white_papers.html<http://sead.viz.tamu.edu/projects/white_papers.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> This material is based upon work supported by the National Science
>>>>> Foundation under Grant No.1142510 , IS, Human Centered Computing,
>>>>> "Collaborative Research: EAGER: Network for Science, Engineering, Arts
>>>>> and Design (NSEAD)
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.**media.uoa.gr<Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
>>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/**mailman/listinfo/yasmin_**discussions<http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>>>
>>>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
>>>>> to.
>>>>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name,
>>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> password in the fields found further down the page.
>>>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
>>>>> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.**media.uoa.gr<Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/**mailman/listinfo/yasmin_**discussions<http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions>
>>>>
>>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>>
>>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
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>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pau Alsina González
>>> Professor dels Estudis d'Arts i Humanitats
>>> Universitat Oberta de Catalunya
>>>
>>> Web Estudis: http://arts-humanitats.uoc.edu
>>> Blog Postgrau: http://laboralcentrodearte.**uoc.edu/<http://laboralcentrodearte.uoc.edu/>
>>> Revista Artnodes: http://artnodes.uoc.edu
>>>
>>> (+34) 93 254 (2176) | palsinag@uoc.edu
>>> Av. Tibidabo 39-43. Barcelona 08035
>>> Blog: http://paualsina.wordpress.com
>>> Twitter: @paualsina <http://twitter.com/#%21/**paualsina<http://twitter.com/#%21/paualsina>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
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>>> i la Llei de serveis de la societat de la informació. Si no sou la
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>>> destinatària indicada (o la responsable de lliurar-lo a qui va destinat),
>>> no heu de copiar aquest missatge ni lliurar-lo a tercers per cap
>>> concepte.
>>> Si heu rebut aquest missatge per error o l´heu aconseguit per altres
>>> mitjans, us demanem que ens ho comuniqueu immediatament per aquesta
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>>>
>>>
>>> Abans d´imprimir aquest missatge electrònic penseu en el medi ambient.
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>>
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
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>
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> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
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