[Yasmin_discussions] why scientists engage in art-science practices

Dear colleagues of Yasmin, engaged in exchanges about science and art
or the other way around,

with joy I read. Rubbing my eyes. A disbeliever often, a sceptic.
The contributions, the discussion is inspiring. I wish I had time to
participate in the way some of you do.
But now the black holes, dark matter. And metaphors. This gives me a
push to send a remark.

A person trying to do a work of which she or he hope that it will be
recognized as a work of art, often relies for many reasons on a
metaphor, a metaphorical little story to find inspiration for that
work. The black hole, of course, is such a case. A greatly powerful
case. A strong mataphore. A hole, we immediately grasp. Likewise a
hole when it is black.

The physicist on the other side. I do not understand the physics of
black holes nor all that that is associated with them. Even worse: I
believe this metaphore when used in physics is as metaphorical as it
would be in the case of a work meant to become a work of art. The
black hole in physics is a work on its way to be accepted as a work of
art. Unfortunately, the writing about it is lacking the artistic
spirit. In the sense of art and science collaboration, two or a few
more, from physics and from art, should get together and design a
mutli-media event on black – not intending to demonstrate art in
service of physics, but physics having become art.

You believe this is not serious? Maybe you are right. I don't know.

Frieder Nake

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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Greetings! with a quick response to your latest snapshot on neuroscience and art trends

Jon,

I´m reading the information, and it is very, very interesting. Here i leave
an article with a lot of information (in spanish), and some links to
science papers from Jeff Steinhauer
<http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v10/n11/full/nphys3104.html#auth-1>:

http://francis.naukas.com/2015/11/06/se-observa-un-analogo-al-entrelazamiento-cuantico-en-la-radiacion-de-hawking/

http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v10/n11/full/nphys3104.html

http://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.92.024043

For my point of view, the real interesting think is this kind of metaphore
used, from black holes to dumb holes, has a tremeoundus richness. In my
point of view this kind of metaphores are enhanced in the art/sci typical
exchanges.

I don´t know if with this metaphores is possible to measure or to resolved
the problems from the real systems (black holes in this case), even may be
it is possible to obtain some nformation, but these are like physical
models. However, i´m sure that ths kind of creative thinking and modelling
has tremeodous impact to develop new concepts and new technologies. For
instance, they develope a lasing system with this kind of concepts.

It is a great example of the direct implications between theoretical
concepts, technoogies and disruptive thinking.

Thanks very much for your link Jon !!, i will use it in next art/sci
lectures.

Guillermo.
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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Greetings! with a quick response to your latest snapshot on neuroscience and art trends

Hello Jon,

Yes, i agree that quantum mechanics is a great field to interact with
artists. For me is a passionate field, and may be one of the reasons
because i studied physics (even i´m not expert, or close to be an expert).
However, at the same time, is dangerous, in the sense that it is very easy
to go mystical or unnatural. In fact, in my impresion, i´m really excited
about this field because is natural (is nature¡¡) (but this is just
ideology, wich is transversal to any discussion).

Concerning Bell, i disagree with you. I think his famus paper is one of the
most cited in scientific literature (if not the most cited). At the same
time, John Bell has a tremendous reputation in science. I agree with you
about the richnes of his proposal. He make that somethinkg that was
considered as a problem if interpretation, become to a measurable problem.
I really like the problems of interpretation, and in quantum mechanics
there are a lot of interpretative arguments, but in science we finally want
to measure, and Bell did just this.

I´m reading your link with care (i´m far to be any kind of expert in this
field and i need time), but it seems fascinating, in the sense that they
use a beautifull metaphore (dumb holes), to study things that nowadays are
not easy/possible to measure. Thanks for the link, i will enjoy it !!, (i
think this is another example of the enrichment of science from artists: as
we are interested in many simillar phenomena, we can share information,
which comes from different sources)

Best,

Guillermo.

2015-11-16 11:11 GMT+01:00 Guillermo Muñoz <m.m.guillermo@gmail.com>:

> Hello Jon,
>
> Yes, i agree that quantum mechanics is a great field to interact with
> artists. For me is a passionate field, and may be one of the reasons
> because i studied physics. However, at the same time, is dangerous, in the
> sense that it is very easy to go mystical or unnatural. In fact, in my
> impresion, i´m really excited about this field because is natural (is
> nature¡¡).
>
> Concerning Bell, i disagree with you. I think his famus paper is one of
> the most cited in scientific literature (if not the most cited). At the
> same time, John Bell has a tremendous reputation in science. I agree with
> you about the richnes of his proposal. He make that somethinkg that was
> considered as a problem if interpretation, become to a measurable problem.
> I really like the problems of interpretation, and in quantum mechanics
> there are a lot of interpretative arguments, but in science we finally want
> to measure, and Bell did just this. Nowadays this is not possible to do it
> with string theories or with event horizonts, ..., so, let´s push to do it
> !!!
>
> Best,
>
> Guillermo.
>
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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Greetings! with a quick response to your latest snapshot on neuroscience and art trends

Ciao Guillermo,

I'm glad to hear about this conversation in Valencia. More than any other branch of science, I think quantum mechanics parallels so-called conceptual art in how a small effort can provoke a radical conclusion. I doubt most professional scientists appreciate the way Bell's theorem undermines our default view of the world. By contrast, string theory seems to require a vastly higher ratio of number-crunching to brain-scratching.

You might appreciate this recent related result, which blew my socks off:

"Quantum Entanglement Survives Across an Event Horizon"
http://ow.ly/3yrAv8

Physicist J. A. Wheeler famously said a black hole has no hair, meaning that all information about an object from the outside world dies once it enters a black hole. Now, apparently, a black hole can have hair if it's tangled.

jon

> On Nov 11, 2015, at 1:10 PM, Guillermo Muñoz <m.m.guillermo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I just come to home after having a really nice afternoon. I revised the new
> article from R. Hanson group about Bell inequalities violation without
> loopholes (detection and locality), published last 29 th October in Nature (
> http://hansonlab.tudelft.nl/loophole-free-bell-test/), with art students
> (within the framework of the art/sci subject in Visual Arts and Multimedia
> Master at Universidad Politecnica de Valencia. This was an example of
> really foundamental physics exchange for artistic pourposses/audience.
>
> Even to understand all the physics is not the objetive (i can not
> understand all the physics there, even i´m physicist), we made interestings
> paralelism about Duchamp work, and Goethe sentences, Poincare ideas of
> scientific research, fundations of quantum mechanics, semiconductor physics
> development, Nanostructured semiconductors, ...
>
> For sure, for me was very helpfull to find some time to learn and to study
> in detail some basic principles in physics that i didn´t recall at all (for
> example, the multipe interpretations of quantum mechanics or wave functions
> (psi-epistiemic vs psi-ontologic models)).
>
> We are trying to push new art students to collaborate with physisc and
> chemistry students, but this year we may have the posibility to include
> philosophy and history of science students. If we get it this would be
> great !!,
>
> Best,
>
> Guillermo.
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
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>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] why scientists engage in art science practices

Hello Yasminers,

Yesterday evening we had one of our Art Sci Salon presentations
at the The Fields Institute for Research in Mathematical Sciences
in Toronto. http://www.artscisalon.com/ on the theme of

Revealing Neutrinos
with
Mark-David Hosale Digital Media, School of the Arts, Media,
Performance & Design, York University
and
James Madsen Physics, University of Wisconsin-River Falls

James and Mark David discussed their processes of collaboration
and the challenges in exploring the visualization and sonification
of data sets collected at the IceCube Neutrino Observatory.

After the meeting I have asked James Madsen why as scientist
is he engaged in art science collaboration? "I am deeply involved in
education and outreach - and find that in our ongoing
collaboration with Mark-David an artist who is well informed
in science and technology - we are able to explore and present
complex scientific concepts in a much more aesthetic and
accessible and way than I would through a science publication".

Please find below further info on the theme of the ArtSci event.

Nina Czegledy



IceCube Neutrino Observatory.
a new type of telescope made from one cubic kilometer of ice starting
one and half kilometers below the surface at the South Pole. Hosale
and Madsen have been working regularly with each other since 2012 and
have realized several projects including Quasar2 and 3, an
international art/science panel discussion at Deutsches Museum in
Munich, Germany, and a variety of education and outreach projects.
Their current work is the product of a collaboration between the
Wisconsin IceCube Particle Astrophysics Center and the nD::StudioLab
at York University.


>The Labs
>Wisconsin IceCube Particle Astrophysics Center (WIPAC)
>The Wisconsin IceCube Particle Astrophysics Center, or WIPAC
>(<http://wipac.wisc.edu>http://wipac.wisc.edu), is a scientific
>center within the Graduate School of the University of
>Wisconsin-Madison with faculty based in the Departments of Physics
>and Astronomy. Until December of 2011, WIPAC was known as the
>IceCube Research Center
>(<https://icecube.wisc.edu/>https://icecube.wisc.edu/). Following
>construction completion of the IceCube Neutrino Observatory in
>December 2010, the mission, vision, and name of the center were
>revised to reflect the shift from IceCube construction to data
>analysis and encompass a broader range of particle astrophysics
>research interests. The main goals of the center still revolve
>around IceCube: maintaining and operating the detector to maximize
>data output and supporting the international collaboration in
>multiple ways. Other priorities include recruiting and developing
>gifted researchers, developing a national education and outreach
>program, and contributing to the field of particle astrophysics.
>
> nD::StudioLab
>Led by Mark-David Hosale, the n-D::StudioLab
>(<http://www.ndstudiolab.com>http://www.ndstudiolab.com) is a
>multi-purpose facility designed for the research and development of
>transmodal artworks based on worldmaking theoretical research based
>at York University. The n-D::StudioLab is an adaptable space that
>can accommodate Research-creation activities that include
>theoretical discourse, methodological development, and the
>production of works. The common foci of these activities explore
>questions and produce work in the areas of ArtScience, Media Art,
>and Interactive Architecture. While a distinction between theory,
>methods, and making can be helpful for discussion, in practice they
>are interrelated with the output of one activity being the catalyst
>of another. Since its inception in October 2011 the n-D::StudioLab
>has been involved in the research and development of several works
>that have been shown internationally, and contributed to published
>research with a number of collaborators.
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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Greetings! with a quick response to your latest snapshot on neuroscience and art trends

Hello all,

I just come to home after having a really nice afternoon. I revised the new
article from R. Hanson group about Bell inequalities violation without
loopholes (detection and locality), published last 29 th October in Nature (
http://hansonlab.tudelft.nl/loophole-free-bell-test/), with art students
(within the framework of the art/sci subject in Visual Arts and Multimedia
Master at Universidad Politecnica de Valencia. This was an example of
really foundamental physics exchange for artistic pourposses/audience.

Even to understand all the physics is not the objetive (i can not
understand all the physics there, even i´m physicist), we made interestings
paralelism about Duchamp work, and Goethe sentences, Poincare ideas of
scientific research, fundations of quantum mechanics, semiconductor physics
development, Nanostructured semiconductors, ...

For sure, for me was very helpfull to find some time to learn and to study
in detail some basic principles in physics that i didn´t recall at all (for
example, the multipe interpretations of quantum mechanics or wave functions
(psi-epistiemic vs psi-ontologic models)).

We are trying to push new art students to collaborate with physisc and
chemistry students, but this year we may have the posibility to include
philosophy and history of science students. If we get it this would be
great !!,

Best,

Guillermo.
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] latest snapshot on neuroscience and art trends

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 1:51 PM, toddsiler1 . <siler.todd@gmail.com<mailto:siler.todd@gmail.com>> wrote:

I agree with Greg Dunn's point that 'many artists who use scientific methods
in their work are not recognized as being "science artists" (such as Georges
Seurat and John Singer Sargent), yet the inclusion of them under a broader
umbrella term may help to educate the public about the pervasiveness of
scientific observation in artistic practice.'


The referencing of an artist such as Seurat in this discussion brings to mind other issues surrounding the lineage between current art-science and earlier developments in late nineteenth and early twentieth-century art — a relationship that I believe is under-acknowledged in general, and then somewhat erroneously attributed when it is acknowledged.

Although an artist like Seurat was engaged with explorations in optical and visual perception, and the Cubists may somehow have been reacting to Einstein's theory of relativity, what science such artists were (or may have been) illustrating or exploring in their work is not the most salient antecedent to current art-science. I think there is a much more profound relationship between the two eras — i.e., what was going on in the late nineteen-hundreds with the general notion of how humans perceive space, and how pictorial space in the visual arts enshrined in the human psyche certain assumptions and particular world views.

When modern art changed from expressions located in pictorial imaginary space, to expressions located in physical real space (think, from Cezanne to Malevich and Duchamp), it was superficially described as being a transition from representation to abstraction — and that is the difference which became understood and studied as the era's paradigmatic change.

But I think maybe the paradigmatic change was actually in space-orientation, and what makes this a distinction with a difference, rather than without one, is the recognition that pictorial illusionistic space is what had embodied and validated imaginary, erroneous, and so-called supernatural beliefs about the world for millennia prior to the nineteenth century. The dismantling of pictorial illusionistic space by artists of that century and its replacement with the aesthetics of real space (the canvas as an object in our real world rather than a window through which we peered into an imaginary one) exalted and gave existential priority to the space science studies rather than the space where persistent mythologies thrive. Science and art have propelled this gradual paradigm change over the last century-and-half, and its primary effect continues to be an erosion (albeit slow) of belief in the so-called supernatural with a concomitant rise in the aesthetic embrace of, and concern for, the natural.

Today that vector of change is manifest in the art-science movement, and should be part of any discourse over the movement's emerging meanings. I have written some about this in an essay for the 2014 exhibition REALSPACE, at http://bit.ly/1MJHlxr .

Stephen Nowlin


S t e p h e n N o w l i n
Vice President
Director, Alyce de Roulet Williamson Gallery
ArtCenter
1700 Lida Street
Pasadena, CA 91103
626.396.2397 | http://williamsongallery.net/google

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