In continuation of the topic/project at hand, please find below the comment I left on Okwui Enwezor's paper in ARTFORUM: http://artforum.com/inprint/id=28339
Re: Ai Weiwei and Sharjah Biennial 10 by G.H. Rabbath (06.08.11 07:48 am)
If I may be so bold, the questions asked in Okwui's paper will unfailingly fall short of real answers. Whatever questions asked by confirmed artists or confirmed curators of the likes of Okwui, such questions will always already have lost their original apparent purpose to be repurposed as another interesting thought provoking text published in ARTFORUM under one of the headings etc. The reader would read it, think for a while, and ponder how relatively wise the author is, and move down the road.
As with what is happening in the street, the real questions should frankly be asked by non-branded names with no real track record. Only then would they be taken at face value. There is an endeavor of the sorts that sprung up in the Lebanese artscene recently self-institutionalizing art scene which might be of interest. This specific art scene still holds opporutinities for outside intervention althewhile being connected to the regional and international arts communities.
It goes without saying that outside intervention should be ultimately met by a reaction from within, such a reaction would be tantamount to the level authentic critical discourse. A great part of this is hypothetical of course, suffice to say that Okwui was contacted about such an endeavor with no real response in fact.
G. H. Rabbath
On 8 juin 2011, at 10:11, yasmin_discussions-request@estia.media.uoa.gr wrote:
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> THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DAILY DIGEST
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. 1. Art agency and its constitution (roger malina)
> (Georges Rabbath)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 06:07:05 +0000
> From: "Georges Rabbath" <georges.rabbath@gmail.com>
> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] 1. Art agency and its constitution
> (roger malina)
> To: <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Message-ID: <4def1189.634dec0a.59c6.0748@mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8
>
> This GH. Rabbath signing in. Please excuse me for this long delay.
>
> I would like to try a performative discussion about agency where respondents would be involved in simple actions on the grounds wherever they might be in the world. I would begin with myself of course.
>
> Agency in art is a pressing problem with the intrusion and diss?mination of artistic production in general media as well as in scientific fields. New media has helped develop artistic pratice away from the object (not too far mind you) and towards the process.
>
> At least this is what it looks like from inside the artworld which brings us to the question of agency: when the artwork is fulfilled in the process, the artist's status as producer is put into question. This not a new problem, however the increasing commodification and the archaic relation to the means of production in the artworld is widening a gap between the artist's discourse and action because of the branding of the artist's name.
>
> This brings us to the importance of the performative treatment of the present issue.
> If we are dealing with agency in art or through art the discussion itself has be part of the process and therefore performative.
>
> We cannot deal with art from an external standpoint. There is no possible critical distance. This has the logical consequence of empowering the viewer allthewhile creating a tension and dissensus with the actual and continued practices in art where names refer a limited number of people identified as the producer or artist.
>
> thestateofmind.be initiative came to be with no clear artistic authorship. It is a relational that changes form with new additions and actions. The website is not the space, rather the relation to question of agency in art and its performative treatment.
>
> In that respect the thought process generated by the discussion should have a performative part through specific actions by the respondents.
>
> I would begin myself as offered, and relay the proposal or response on the bambuser account in order transfer the theoretical proposition into a performative stance.
>
> We are thestateofmind
>
>
>
> Georges Rabbath
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: yasmin_discussions-request@estia.media.uoa.gr
> Sent: 03/06/2011, 2:20 PM
> To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> Subject: Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 118, Issue 1
>
>
> Send Yasmin_discussions mailing list submissions to
> yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> yasmin_discussions-request@estia.media.uoa.gr
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> THIS IS A DAILY DIGEST BY YASMIN_ANNOUNCEMENTS
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Art agency and its constitution (roger malina)
> 2. grading the lebanese constitution (roger malina)
> 3. Re: Boundaries (hight@34n118w.net)
> 4. Living data (Lisa Roberts)
> 5. Re: Boundaries (teri rueb)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 13:42:28 +0200
> From: roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>
> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] art agency and its constitution
> To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTikh2x-mY7SzE5j25zD+5eph07jh7g@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> yasminers
>
> the venice biennale activities are under way= goerge
> rabbath and team are reporting daily on their\blog =we hope
> you will contribute
>
> roger
>
> http://thestateofmind.be/
>
>
> With the current change in Middle-Eastern and North African countries,
>>> it has become clear that the use of new media has apparently given
>>> people the power to change status quos. This new (media) kind of
>>> freedom is being addressed by attempts by governments to control the
>>> web and exert better censorship and press intimidation. At the same
>>> time the exercise of freedom of speech through new media gives rise to
>>> new questions about the close relation to freedom and chaos.
>>>
>>> A R A B means W E S T, the words ??? (Arab) and ??? (West) have the
>>> same root. The A R A B S were named thus because they were to the west
>>> of the Assyrians. It so happens that this name has come to give E U R
>>> O P E its name through the myth of Europa, being kidnapped by Zeus
>>> from kingdom of Tyre and ending up in an island at equal distance of
>>> East and West. Being A R A B has become an allegory of change.
>>>
>>> Change is happening, the question is whether change entails freedom or
>>> whether it just refers to the unpredictability of chaos. The growing
>>> aspect of participation in contemporary art, questions under new light
>>> whether artistic practice per se, entails conditions of freedom, or
>>> whether it stops at agency. Agency is a notion closely tied to that of
>>> freedom. When we refer to agency, we usually combine the two words and
>>> say free agency. But we sometimes use this term to refer to freedom as
>>> well as agency. T H E A R A B S T A T E S O F M I N D is the
>>> performative displacement, and the conceptual wandering of the ?State
>>> of Mind? exhibition projected in Venice in June 2011.
>
> http://thestateofmind.be/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 13:48:44 +0200
> From: roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>
> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] grading the lebanese constitution
> To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTimyA0nhV2ZyfUD1yRSBt7vJCrphng@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> yasminers
>
> 187 of you have now graded the Lebanese Constitution and it
> is currently rated at:
>
> 11.20320855615 out of 20
>
> http://www.dastooronline.com/
>
> 'Grading the Lebanese Constitution' is a web based project by Ricardo
> Mbarkho where people can make anonymous grading for any and every
> article of the actual Lebanese Constitution. An Overall Average Grade
> is constantly displayed and updated. This grading centered project
> with its mass evaluation process implies different ways of reading the
> numbers and graphs of all the statistical results. It's a work that
> deals with data interpretation to offer multiple analysis levels
> relative to our emotional and rational attitude toward the
> Constitution.
>
> http://www.dastooronline.com/
>
> Roger
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:49:37 -0700
> From: hight@34n118w.net
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Boundaries
> To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> Message-ID:
> <9ae6cb0d361bc4a7baff336fdaa30a2c.squirrel@webmail.34n118w.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Vicki,
>
> I love the title "Echology". echo/ecology=data and even feedback loop
>
> It sounds fascinating and very timely. I have studied meteorology and
> climatology since I was a little kid and Australia in the last year has
> had some wild events. Yassi comes to mind first, but also the unusual
> inland flooding both in the east and in the west central dry regions that
> had a temporary lake. The effects of La Nina and arguably climate change
> have been immense and wide ranging to the extreme there. As I write we are
> expecting a storm in a few days to bring up to 2 inches of rain in parts
> of northern california which is unheard of in June (some all time records
> are .89 inches down to near a trace).
>
> I would love to know what you and other yasminers think of data and how it
> is timely in relation to larger issues and concerns. I think right away
> of archiving and older platforms and hardware as well as the work being
> down by the Buckminster Fuller Insitute and the recent challenge winners
> among a wide array of ecological and semiotic concerns around data and
> measure.
>
> best,
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
>> On 30/05/11 4:24 AM, "hight@34n118w.net" <hight@34n118w.net> wrote:
>>> Good point. I think the fascinating thing is the larger gestalt
>>
>> Jeremy,
>>
>> You're not kidding about the larger gestalt! Just in the past couple of
>> months arts/culture orgs including Future Everything, Eyebeam and MediaLab
>> Prado, have presented some really exciting projects around data.
>>
>> Here at ANAT in Australia we've been developing 'ECHOLOGY: making sense of
>> data', which will take place from 2011-13. Kicking off with a travelling
>> seminar in November, the project is especially interested in data
>> representations that move beyond the screen and play to the fuller suite
>> of
>> senses, embracing sound, light, kinetics, materials (water, sand, gas,
>> fire,
>> etc) in their realisation.
>>
>> We're not quite at launch stage, but I thought yasminers might be
>> interested
>> in what we're planning, so I've included a brief overview below.. If you'd
>> like to know more, please get in touch.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Vicki
>>
>> ----
>> ECHOLOGY: making sense of data
>>
>> The 21st Century is an era of pervasive and ever-increasing data
>> collection;
>> it tracks who we are, what we do and how we live our lives ? in effect
>> creating a complex, connected universe of information-based ecologies.
>> Alongside this, there has been a rapid proliferation of proprietary and
>> open
>> source publication and aggregation tools, enabling critical and creative
>> approaches to data representation well beyond the intent and scope of
>> those
>> involved in its collection.
>>
>> Presented by the Australian Network of Art & Technology (ANAT) and Carbon
>> Arts, ECHOLOGY: making sense of data introduces artists and other creative
>> types to the use of real-time data in the production of artworks for the
>> public realm ? bringing these abstract information ecologies into our more
>> grounded, local spaces. We are especially interested in approaches that
>> embrace new ways of representing data through the use of sound, kinetics,
>> materials (water, sand, plants) and light.
>>
>> Timeline
>> 2011: Travelling roadshow featuring Julie Freeman, Usman Haque, Joyce
>> Hinterding, Geo Homsy, Natalie Jeremijenko and DV Rogers.
>> 2012: Site identification, call for proposals, development lab
>> 2013: Production, unveiling at ISEA2013 (hosted by ANAT in Sydney).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>
>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>
>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to.
>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name,
>> and password in the fields found further down the page.
>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
>> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on
>> the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
>> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 08:04:42 +1000
> From: Lisa Roberts <lisa@lisaroberts.com.au>
> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] Living data
> To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Message-ID: <20110603080442.14cafb9a@lisa-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Yasminers,
>
> I am interested to read Vikki's post, particularly have
> experienced last week's VIVID event. I too have observed a growing
> number of artists who are attracted to working with data. The word
> data seems to have gathered around it an appeal that goes beyond its
> definition as mere measurements and statistics.
>
> The VIVID event comprised many small
> and large scale light projections. At the launch it was was promoted
> as a Design event that was innovative, sustainable and creative.
> Individual statements by designers and design companies made references
> to their innovative projections of data. Was it innovative? Apart
> from the fact that LED lights are now replacing incandescent lighting
> forms, many of the works appeared to collect and project the same old
> data (random movements of people) in the same old ways (through motion,
> heat or light sensors). Sustainable? The scale of the event was so huge
> it made me wonder about its carbon footprint. Creative? Creativity has
> no clear definition, but I had to ask, How does such work contribute
> to creating a more sustainable world?
>
> However, VIVID gave many people pleasure. It was, quite simply
> seductive colour and movement. It brought people together in a
> space and made us think and talk. I was seduced by the beauty of
> the works and stimulated by discussions that they led to. One
> discussion was about how there are artists and scientists
> who have an interest in connecting many people to data that has more
> meaning than random human actions. We agreed that there is a
> place for designers to develop such displays, but a need for
> connections to be made between them and artists and scientists.
>
> Such connections are starting to be made at UTS, and I am keen to know
> of other places where this is happening.
>
> At UTS this year, a confluence of interests naturally arose between
> me, a climate change scientist and an artist who works with data. This
> has led to a new research project, Living data: How animation can bring
> scientific data to life, which I will lead through the Climate Change
> Cluster (C3) in the Faculty of Scientists. I will work with
> plankton ecologist Martina Doblin (PhD UTS) and artist and data
> visualizer Gail Kenning (PhD UNSW). Students and their tutors at UTS and
> other universities in Australia and overseas will be offered
> opportunities to participate in the research through field trips,
> workshops, exhibitions, conferences, publications and the on-line
> research journal.
>
> Please read the Project Outline below and let us know if you would like
> us to us keep you posted of our progress.
>
> Project Outline
>
> The need to communicate accurate and accessible information about the
> integral connections between human actions and the global ecosystem is
> urgent. As artists and scientists we propose a two-year program of
> research into how art and science methods can be used to make digital
> animations that present scientific data in ways that can expand
> awareness of the place of humans within the natural systems. A visual
> language of archetypal forms used in art and science to describe
> feelings of connection and forces of change in the natural world will
> be combined. Animations that appeal to the senses and intellect will
> give new meanings to climate change data by connecting them to human
> experience. Animations will be made accessible from a free on-line
> archive and distributed widely. Our research will model a new
> pedagogical framework for teaching and learning that reflects our view
> of the world as a dynamic integrated whole.
>
> Roberts, L; Doblin, M.; Kenning, G. May 2011
>
> ---------------------------
>
> Lisa Roberts, PhD Fine Arts (UNSW)
>
> www.lisaroberts.com.au
> www.antarcticanimation.com
>
> Post:-
> PO Box 486
> Newtown NSW
> Australia 2042
>
> Tel. +61 2 9550 2806
> Mob. 0428 502 805
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 19:31:37 -0400
> From: teri rueb <terirueb@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Boundaries
> To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTikxvmGebGpPBRC-9=5LiQjBeHmDDg@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi All,
>
> Happy to be a new Yasminer! And sorry to be so late in jumping into this
> discussion - I have been busy writing a very long paper. Finally done. I
> hope I am not introducing too much of a non sequitur with this comment.
>
> Roger wrote:
>
> whats not clear to me is whether these kinds of work
> can really change our behaviours or relationship
> to the world= to the extenthat they occupy our
> mediated spaces they can perhaps "re thicken" our
> connection to phenomena that we only have
> abstract awareness of) but without embodiment
> do they remain un=intimate ? that boundary
> between the virtual and physical is multi layered
>
> I wonder:
>
> What about the phenomena that we only have abstract awareness of that lies
> right in plain view and sensible without aid or "visualization," yet resists
> quantification or reduction to mediated representations? Do mediated
> overlays of data sets possibly eclipse or dull our senses to such rich
> information? How might the capacity to direct movement and gaze or
> attention - also critical capacities of locative media - be used to bring us
> back to the fundamental experience of our own embodiment that is so often
> pushed to the margins of our consciousness as we seek evermore data
> "enhanced" experiences, often tailored to data-obsessed, media-attuned
> sensibilities?
>
> I also am drawn to think about the ways that "layers and layers" of data may
> actually distance us from the richness of ambiguous, yet ubiquitous,
> phenomena that give richness to interaction in public spaces - the level of
> conscious and unconscious apprehension of our surroundings that "places" us
> in relation to environment and other inhabitants. For example, the smells
> in a crowded subway car that shift with the rocking of cars and bodies, the
> sources of such smells ranging from the fuel or electric power of the
> infrastructure, the materials of the train itself, to the smells of hair
> products, laundry detergent, food, sweat, urine, etc. - all of which inform
> our sense of identity, placing us and displacing us in the moment, location,
> and social context. Displacement may be even more important to challenging
> who we are and what unites and divides us in public, personal and private
> space, yet how do data overlays facilitate such displacements - especially
> since most are intent upon fixing us in space, or in specific relationship
> to others, framing the context around concrete themes and easily recognized
> meanings? I wonder about the affective experiences we cannot quite
> articulate, visualize or explain which are nonetheless powerful factors that
> inform our feelings, attitudes, opinions, and actions, behavior, etc. How
> is this level of experience folded into so-called "locative media"?
>
> Another example from the subway . . . we seem to be informal experts at
> managing furtive glances or even outright stares as a form of observation
> through which we become attuned to social contexts and communications at
> verbal and non-verbal levels. These are highly localized, yet powerful
> sources of affective knowledge that extrapolate to more abstract levels of
> behavior and decision making. The information we are gleaning in these
> moments and how we make sense of it may remain relatively inchoate, even
> over long exposure or extended experiences with the same conditions, yet
> still they form a sense of place and identity at less self-conscious levels
> that may be more important than we think. Yet just to point to it isn't very
> compelling, and may even be self-defeating if the goal is to foster diverse
> levels of attention and affective experience. Is this kind of knowing and
> experience eclipsed by "data layers" that promise to add other dimensions to
> our social interactions in public space, even as they may dull our capacity
> for deeply attuned and embodied forms of social exchange?
>
> How can the virtual re-direct us to the non-virtual?
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 3:49 PM, <hight@34n118w.net> wrote:
>
>> Vicki,
>>
>> I love the title "Echology". echo/ecology=data and even feedback loop
>>
>> It sounds fascinating and very timely. I have studied meteorology and
>> climatology since I was a little kid and Australia in the last year has
>> had some wild events. Yassi comes to mind first, but also the unusual
>> inland flooding both in the east and in the west central dry regions that
>> had a temporary lake. The effects of La Nina and arguably climate change
>> have been immense and wide ranging to the extreme there. As I write we are
>> expecting a storm in a few days to bring up to 2 inches of rain in parts
>> of northern california which is unheard of in June (some all time records
>> are .89 inches down to near a trace).
>>
>> I would love to know what you and other yasminers think of data and how it
>> is timely in relation to larger issues and concerns. I think right away
>> of archiving and older platforms and hardware as well as the work being
>> down by the Buckminster Fuller Insitute and the recent challenge winners
>> among a wide array of ecological and semiotic concerns around data and
>> measure.
>>
>> best,
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 30/05/11 4:24 AM, "hight@34n118w.net" <hight@34n118w.net> wrote:
>>>> Good point. I think the fascinating thing is the larger gestalt
>>>
>>> Jeremy,
>>>
>>> You're not kidding about the larger gestalt! Just in the past couple of
>>> months arts/culture orgs including Future Everything, Eyebeam and
>> MediaLab
>>> Prado, have presented some really exciting projects around data.
>>>
>>> Here at ANAT in Australia we've been developing 'ECHOLOGY: making sense
>> of
>>> data', which will take place from 2011-13. Kicking off with a travelling
>>> seminar in November, the project is especially interested in data
>>> representations that move beyond the screen and play to the fuller suite
>>> of
>>> senses, embracing sound, light, kinetics, materials (water, sand, gas,
>>> fire,
>>> etc) in their realisation.
>>>
>>> We're not quite at launch stage, but I thought yasminers might be
>>> interested
>>> in what we're planning, so I've included a brief overview below.. If
>> you'd
>>> like to know more, please get in touch.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Vicki
>>>
>>> ----
>>> ECHOLOGY: making sense of data
>>>
>>> The 21st Century is an era of pervasive and ever-increasing data
>>> collection;
>>> it tracks who we are, what we do and how we live our lives ? in effect
>>> creating a complex, connected universe of information-based ecologies.
>>> Alongside this, there has been a rapid proliferation of proprietary and
>>> open
>>> source publication and aggregation tools, enabling critical and creative
>>> approaches to data representation well beyond the intent and scope of
>>> those
>>> involved in its collection.
>>>
>>> Presented by the Australian Network of Art & Technology (ANAT) and Carbon
>>> Arts, ECHOLOGY: making sense of data introduces artists and other
>> creative
>>> types to the use of real-time data in the production of artworks for the
>>> public realm ? bringing these abstract information ecologies into our
>> more
>>> grounded, local spaces. We are especially interested in approaches that
>>> embrace new ways of representing data through the use of sound, kinetics,
>>> materials (water, sand, plants) and light.
>>>
>>> Timeline
>>> 2011: Travelling roadshow featuring Julie Freeman, Usman Haque, Joyce
>>> Hinterding, Geo Homsy, Natalie Jeremijenko and DV Rogers.
>>> 2012: Site identification, call for proposals, development lab
>>> 2013: Production, unveiling at ISEA2013 (hosted by ANAT in Sydney).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>
>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>
>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to.
>>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name,
>>> and password in the fields found further down the page.
>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
>>> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on
>>> the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
>>> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>
>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>
>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to.
>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
>> password in the fields found further down the page.
>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
>> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
>> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
>> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
>
> End of Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 118, Issue 1
> **************************************************
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
>
> End of Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 122, Issue 1
> **************************************************
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