Greetings Yasminers, and thank you Myriam and Wafa for your post (nke sawal imik tamazigh)
two points
one
my first point is that all forms of communication , all modes of effective signal exchange(as in metabolism, social interaction or telecomunications) are multimodal, occur in several mediums or substrates at the same time, in terms of how they work, then later when artistic, political, scientific productions , performances or the traces of the performances are studied, described expplained to others, by scientists, artists philosofers et al these studies are "monomodal" and look at voice, text, paint, sculpture dance food as if they where independent and separate streams which quite obviously they are not when they happen.
In that sense orality is also a fabrication of the observation method as voice is embedded in bodies and happens in places and things are arround, that give meaning to the dynamic procedures which include voice, and language, they never exist only as voice. Very much as texts dont have much meaning without readers and writters, but also printers and publishers, and libaries and schools, orality is part of a multimedia performance and no voice is alone.
One interesting instance of this is china where text and music , poetry and music where (are) conceived, learned, performed as one thing , poems had a tune, tunes had poems, it is only in the late 18th century that chinese scholars imported the autopsy methods the greeks and romans used where texts are texts and have no music and music is music and says nothing.
the other point is about the number of worlds and the geography of cultures, first i think the main distinction is access to resources, not geography. We all know that wealthy people from Algiers, Ouarzazate, Hong Kong or Toronto are closer, more similar in their options than people in the same places who do not have the resources (capital)
then the world has a long , complicated and often violent history, and any place or group of people has received from and given to others, the world is one big mess and there are different positions in it in terms of what you can do and what you have, but where you are and where you go is not a matter of two or three geographical options.
cordially
r
--- On Sat, 11/7/09, wafa bourkhis <wafabourkhis@yahoo.fr> wrote:
> From: wafa bourkhis <wafabourkhis@yahoo.fr>
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] introductory thoughts...on the subject
> To: "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS" <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 4:49 AM
> Sorry Rogerthere is the complete
> link:http://artisticunionforthemediterranean.ning.com/video/partie1workshop-1
> best Regards
>
> --- En date de : Ven 6.11.09, wafa bourkhis <wafabourkhis@yahoo.fr>
> a écrit :
>
> De: wafa bourkhis <wafabourkhis@yahoo.fr>
> Objet: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] introductory thoughts...on
> the subject
> À: "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS" <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Date: Vendredi 6 Novembre 2009, 22h28
>
> HelloI wanted to thank Myriam for her excellent postand i
> want to discuss about the importance of the voice in the
> oral Traditionssound is a very important element to transmit
> a message, especially in multimedia
> Without it, the image is missing a lot of her rhetoric.When
> i'd set the workshop on Second Life/real Life
> territorieswith Algerian students, i asked Myriam if they
> have the possibility to talk to me with Voice Chat... So it
> was easier to me to explain to the students all my ideas and
> definitions of Virtual Environments...I had a better feeling
> of receiving my message to the students, as Marshall Mc
> Luhan said; " The medium is the message". without Voice
> communication we cannot interact with each other and feel
> the presence of human beings.So, the "Noise pollution
> killing dolphins in the mediterranean sea" was our subject
> in this workshop. It can be a metaphor of our communication
> on the net that needs to have a single territory not like
> dolphins that are in exile. and noise pollution can be the
> metaphor of the desinformation in the media that kills our
> ability to make peace and friendship...Reality is being
> multiple with this pollution of medias...
> To be continuedWafa bourkhishttp://artisticunionforthemediterranean.ning.com/video/partie1workshop-1---
> En date de : Ven 6.11.09, gustavo espeja <gusta_49@yahoo.com>
> a écrit :
>
> De: gustavo espeja <gusta_49@yahoo.com>
> Objet: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] introductory thoughts...on
> the subject
> À: "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS" <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Date: Vendredi 6 Novembre 2009, 17h54
>
> Myriam: Don`t forget the Algerian film "Murailles
> d'Arcille" and mainly the Brazilian new realism mainly
> Glauber Rocha (He died in 1981 in Lisbon , I was there )
> their film "Antonio das Mortes" ("Anthony the Killer") ,
> "Deus o o diavo na terra do sol" "God and devil in Sun land"
> and another director that I didn't remember his name that
> filme "O Cangaçeiro" "The Cangaçeiro is a rural bandit
> (sometimes is a social bandit like Lampeâo - Lantern -
> Virgulino) ., so, they were closed communities that robbed
> to great fazendarios (landlords) or some plantations. They
> were (and in a sense are) in the Northern Brazil.
> A film based in novel of the Paraguayan writer Augusto Roa
> Bastos named "Hijo de hombre" "Man's Son" based in the Chaco
> war between Bolivia and Paraguay , shown in a film the
> reality and the history the director was an Argentine I
> don't know but I suppose that was Leopoldo Torre Nilsson.
> With my best regards
>
> ricardo gustavo espeja
>
> --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Myriam Hammani <mhammani@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> From: Myriam Hammani <mhammani@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] introductory thoughts...on
> the subject
> To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 6:07 AM
>
>
>
>
> Thinking about Orality in today's world ,Western and Other,
> and it's role on our thinking pattern when transmitted onto
> film and new media...Hearing and Seeing, are two disctinct
> ways of taking in information. We have noticed that our
> actuall global culture has become a very visual experience
> in the new media world which has bombarded our community.
> Posters in the streets, in the subway metros, televisions in
> every home, internet visuals, working on the computer is a
> more visual then sonic experience. What is interesting to
> note is that sonic manifestations are more 'annoying' to
> people then visual manifestations. For example, sound makers
> and musicians in Paris are not allowed to make music outside
> wherever nor whenever they choose to. They must get the
> permission of the mairie by passing a test and win a badge
> and play in a restricted area of Paris...each sound has it s
> block. If they make music on the street or sound art without
> permission they can
> politely be asked to st!
> op playing by the police with a fine to paye. However
> agressive images and signs bombard us continuously every day
> and night without ever be asked to leave nor paye a fine nor
> have a special place to go. It is everywhere.It is
> interesting to note that before the printing technologies,
> our communities were focused on oraly transmitted news and
> stories. Troubadours were the postmen of the time and
> communication was a much more personal affair passed on from
> person to person.Actually it makes sens to note that orality
> is closer to the 'heart' of humanity then visuality. Jean
> Louis Alibert notes it well in his book 'Le son de L'image',
> the mother's abdominal walls are not sound proof at all.
> About -20 to 25 dB only are blocked by the walls of the
> mother's womb from the child's hearing abilities. And the
> child 's oral nerves are the first part of the brain to be
> myelanated and developped to receive sonic information. The
> voice and heart beat of our mother
> are the first sounds a!
> nd information we hear and think about. So why is it
> that or!
> ality ha
> s slowly dissapeared from western culture and oral memory
> is no longer 'serious' news.This is what intrigues me, our
> first developped communication tool is our ears and the
> sound of our formulated breath. Our thought pattern and
> memory developped from sonic stimulus, before it was
> triggered visually.From this I beleive that our brain works
> differently with sonic stimulation (orality) then with
> visual stimulation (writing, visual gesture). So I am very
> curious how this orality developped and is keped in
> traditional cultures especially in Africa,Asia, South
> America, central Australia (aboriginies) work and effect the
> visual outlook of their thinking. I have personnaly been
> working with film and video for quite some time , and I
> found that most visualy told stories are coming from a
> visual westernized opinion and 'outlook'.It is interesting
> to study the rich rapport existing within orality and it's
> influence on visual expression. To reclaim it and grow with
> it, in this way allo!
> wing a larger palette of communication to occur in my life,
> and therefore a broader deeper way to understand and think
> sensually.
> One way I have begun to study and analyse this curious
> relationship is with my own heritage, the Amazigh, or what
> the westerners refer to as berbers. In the kabyle villages
> of Algeria, orality has been a much more important part of
> historical transmission and communication then writing has.
> Although the technical tool of writing with Tifinagh letters
> has always existed since Pharaonic and Hattian times, the
> Berbers chose to communicate history with orality.Why is
> that?
> For Oraly operating communities, memory is keped alive
> through different personal voices. The memory grows,
> mutates, transforms and never dies. Fact is frozen and used
> as a reference. Orality is alive, changing and is not used
> as a reference in the west. I'm looking at orality on a
> sensual level now, and invite you to join into this
> discussion...How has Orality touched your life personaly?
> Professionaly?Can we use Orality as a Historical reference?
> Is writting and photography and film truly the keepers of
> 'real' history or do they trap history and keep fixed
> borders?
> Madame Barbereux- Parry was a well trained singer with a
> beautiful tone until she lost her voice. She was not asking
> these big historical questions however she understood the
> power and importance of Orality for humanities' well being.
> In the early 1890's, she lost her voice and began
> researching singing techniques which help release the voice
> to its fullest power. She talks about using the voice as a
> tool of release and not imprisonment in her book 'Vocal
> resonance: it s source and command'. And she found a very
> interesting thought from her personal experience:
> "Universal release is universal liberation - the antithesis
> of which is imprisonment. The universal imprisonment of the
> human race as we find it today, can be traced to many
> causes, and is both physical and mental."
> "the universal key which will open the door of this mental
> and physical imprisonement of humanity is found to be vocal
> expression. When all vocal expression is liberated from its
> dependence on physical sensation and breath, it is thus
> connected with the activity of the creative impulse and the
> finer sensisbilities, and is wholly in the realm of thought
> and inspiration."
> Susan Sontag opinion on visual communication also reflects
> her thoughts about the universal imrpisonment of the human
> race in her book 'On Photography':
> "Cameras began duplicating the world at that moment when
> the human landscape started to undergo a vertigionous rate
> of change: while an untold number of forms of biological and
> social life are being destroyed in a brief span of time, a
> device is available to record what is disappearing."
> Is it because Written/visual history is a more western way
> that it is taken more seriously? And all the other cultures
> that keep so much historical information orally are not
> taken seriously because they are other or as many have
> refered to Africa, Asia and South America as 'third world'
> cultures.
> I will leave vietnamese filmmaker's Trinh t. Minh ha's
> reflections on the subject with you...
>
> "Wether "Third world" sounds negative or positive also
> depends on who uses it. Coming from you Westerners, the word
> can hardly mean the same as where it comes from Us members
> of the Third World. Quite predicatably you/we who condemn it
> most are both we who buy in and they who deny any
> participation in the bourgeois mentality of the West.
> For it was in the contesxt of such mentality that "third
> world" stood out as a new semantic find to designate what
> was known as the "savages" before the Independence. Today,
> hegemony is much more subtle, much more pernicious than the
> form of blatant racism once exercised by the colonial west,
> I always find myself asking in this one dimension society
> where I should draw the line between tracking down the
> oppressive mechanisms of the system and aiding their spread.
> Third world commonly refers to those states in Africa, Asia
> and Latin America which called these non aligned that is to
> say affiliated with neither the western capitalist nor the
> Eastern communist power blocs. Thus if Third world is often
> rejected for it's judged to be derogative connotations it is
> not so much because of the hierarchical first, second, third
> order implied as some invariably repeat but because of the
> goring threat third world consequently presents to the
> western bloc the last few
> decades. "
> Hope to hear your opinions on the subject of Orality as an
> existing form by itself, with new media, outside of the West
> and it s effects on thinking patterns....and share you
> personal experience with this...then I will share with you
> my personal experiences....
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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