Yasmin List: February 2021

Friday, February 26, 2021

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 37, Issue 2

Thursday, February 25, 2021

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 37, Issue 1

Wednesday, February 17, 2021

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 36, Issue 1

Sunday, February 14, 2021

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 35, Issue 2

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THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DIGEST

Today's Topics:

1. Re: yasmin phoenicians and pirates: overcoming touch
deprivation pharmakon and provokaon (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
2. Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 34, Issue 4. Alyse
Santoro-Roger (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:22:36 +0100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: nake <nake@uni-bremen.de>
Cc: roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>, Ranwa Yehia
<ranwayehia@googlemail.com>, yasmin_announcements@ntlab.gr,
yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] yasmin phoenicians and pirates:
overcoming touch deprivation pharmakon and provokaon
Message-ID:
<mailman.9.1613210638.1495.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear Frieder and Roger, and also John and Siddharth, who were discussing so
nicely about the transformations in sciences,

speaking about ecology, we could approach this by keeping in mind that
ecology is the science that studies relationships between organisms and
their environment, and that "organisms" does not necessarily means humans
or animals or plants or viruses, and environment does not necessarily mean
nature(?).

what is "natural"? we have encountered this question millions of times in
many forms.

and what is "immediate"? which literally means not-mediated. What does it
even mean?

technologies change us, and we change technologies. And this goes the same
with the environment, with law, with communication etc

in our little research center, during the pandemics, we did an experiment
called Data Meditations

https://www.he-r.it/project/data-meditations/

we were not satisfied at all about how media and governments were using
data and how they were using the concepts of lockdowns. Everything looked
too much like war, prison or mental asylums. Instead, cultures of all times
and origins are full of examples of "lockdowns" that do not incarcerate
people but, instead, are meant to uplift them: monasteries, hermitages,
retreats, spiritual isolations. We just could not accept that everywhere we
looked we found all of the first type, and none of the second.

So we started doing Data Meditations. Communities chose to generate data
about their psycho-social well being, in non extractive ways, as part of
their self-representation, and at a certain time of day we had a meditative
ritual.

Presence was required, and it was technologically enabled. No advanced
stuff like VR was needed, just the fact that we had a time at which the
ritual should have started, and that when people arrived their little light
would turn green, and the fact that if most lights did not turn on the
access to the ritual would not become accessible. In the feedback phase,
people told us that they felt this presence, like a new sense, a tactile
tension, with real effects.

On top of that, people would feel their own data as well as someone else's:
data was transformed into sounds and you would hear in back along a
timeline: yours on the left ear and your Other's on the right ear. So you
could not avoid comparing: who woke up earlier, who had been alone all day,
who had been anxious or happy, and so on. On top of that data has this
phantasmatic characteristic: it just cannot represent everything. This
means that it leaves voids, and empty spaces for interpretation. These two
things together added up, and a form of data enabled empathy formed
spontaneously.

Now in our little research center we are also thinking about the non-human,
just like Roger was suggesting. Since a building, neighbourhoods, cities,
forests, animals, seas, companies and viruses all emit data as "part of
their autobiographies", can we imagine to have Data Meditation session with
them? To develop new forms of empathies and sensibilities with them? And,
in case of a positive answer: what does it even mean? And can we unite in
these new sensibilities with other human beings (and non-humans), just like
we think we can with the senses of our flesh and nervous systems? (and,
here again, I find myself troubled by this last sentence, because: where
does our nervous system end?)

Enormous questions. Small, boutique, research center. We'd love to discuss
and collaborate.

Kind wishes,
Salvatore

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 10:35 AM nake <nake@uni-bremen.de> wrote:

> Dear Roger,
>
> never tired, as I have always known you!
>
> Implicitly, with your greatly open thinking, you make me realize how
> old-fashioned and limited to my own body my way of thinking has become.
> But, in some way, I want to insist on the great immediacy of the bodily
> senses, even if those humans who suffer some principle lack or loss of
> one or more of those biologically given senses are to be deplored.
>
> Your wonderful collection of other very individual experiences we can
> have now (and since long times), and that we do, in fact, experience,
> are mediated and, to a large extent, products of mental capabilities of
> our existence. The digital and algorithmic is not immediate. The
> immediate is natural, given, and the source of sins for the religious
> friends of ours; the mediated is what comes after, cultural and made.
>
> Don't you think?
>
> Snow and white out here in the North of Germany. Almost silence. Only
> the rare car cuts through. Birds still in the air, in search of food, I
> suppose.
>
> Frieder
>
>
> On 08.02.21 17:56, roger malina wrote:
> > ranwa, frieder, slavatore et yasmin phoenicians
> > a) let me pick up on frieders"
> > We could touch our old neighbor next door. We will never touch any of
> > all those others. We lose our skin and gain a bodiless existence.
> > Digital. Algorithmic.Frieder Nake
> >
> > b) roger replies- strange how the sense of touch has become more
> > crucial than ever in this time when
> > touching is suspicious- the blind rely on the sense of touch to
> > navigate their own virtual reality-but now when they touch repeatedly
> > they are told to stop, to reduce the spread of the virus
> > last friday Dr Jin Kim of our dallas universities computer science
> > department told us about his research on develop a very advanced state
> > of 'touch' and proprioception in virtual reality
> >
> > c)my instant post pandemic provocation is why, why, reproduce in
> > virtual reality the sense of human physical touch ? let's invent new
> > senses that can be deployed in virtual reality- like a sense for
> > trends in climate change. or the presence of covid q9 near us- our
> > dear recently departed stiegler would have insisted
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmakon_(philosophy) on a new
> > pharkaon for the post pandemic age - so yes frieder- the sense of
> > touch is greatly needed to be enhanced today, but lets use the methods
> > of the pharmakon to create enhanced sense of touch in the post
> > pandemic world, and lets invite the yasmin pirates to do their damage
> > and liberate us from old ways of thinking in the post pandemic world
> >
> >
> > d) frieder again: Now, "global" has become when so many of us feel our
> > neighbor, physically next door, is emotionally or intellectually or in
> > terms of shared interests or in collaborating on some project or in
> > exchanging exciting ideas, etc., farther away from us than a dozen or
> > more people around the globe.
> >
> > frieder continues:
> >
> > We could touch our old neighbor next door. We will never touch any of
> > all those others. We lose our skin and gain a bodiless existence.
> > Digital. Algorithmic.
> >
> > Frieder Nake
> >
> > Roger in Dallas, please phone/txt/ +15108532007 if urgent
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> Frieder Nake
> Universit?t Bremen, FB3 (Informatik)
> P.O. Box 330 440, 28334 Bremen, Germany
> (for parcels use: Bibliothekstr. 1, 28359 Bremen, Germany)
>
>

--
*Art is Open Source *- http://www.artisopensource.net
*Human Ecosystems Relazioni* - https://www.he-r.it/
*Ubiquitous Commons *- http://www.ubiquitouscommons.org

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 23:59:49 -0500
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 34, Issue
4. Alyse Santoro-Roger
Message-ID:
<mailman.11.1613243162.1495.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi Alyce, Roger, and all,

SHORT & SWEET REPLY ANSWER (I think).

Biosphere and cultural perceptions about ?Good and Evil? quests as reflective mirrors of the time I think too IS THE VALUE of continuing Yasmin.

Going forward with flexible analytic groups to examine ever-changing old and current issues presented by ?then and now? philosophers, scientists, Citizen Scientists, and artist creative investigators, incestigators, outlier efforts, is an important and unique amalgamation algorithm that Yasmin can provide for bringing about ?New? questions.
Best regards,
Nina
Nina Yankowitz
106 Spring St. #2N
New York, N.Y. 10012
www.ninayankowitz.com
Mobile or text (1)917-575-0671

Vimeopro.com/userninay/art-nina-yankowitz

Nina Yankowitz History-Smithsonian Archives of American Art
http://www.aaa.si.edu/download_pdf_transcript/ajax?record_id=edanmdm-AAADCD_oh_394656

Begin forwarded message:

From: yasmin_discussions-request@ntlab.gr
Date: February 5, 2021 at 5:01:39 AM EST
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 34, Issue 4
Reply-To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr

?Send Yasmin_discussions mailing list submissions to
yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://ntlab.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Yasmin_discussions digest..."

THIS IS THE YASMIN-DISCUSSIONS DIGEST

Today's Topics:

1. Re: let yasmin die ? (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
2. Re: [Yasmin_announcements] YASMIN next steps, a new YASMIN
discussion (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
3. yasminers sense of touch and the ecological imaginary
(YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
4. Queer Data. Queer AI. Community AI. (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)
5. Re: Queer Data. Queer AI. Community AI. (YASMIN DISCUSSIONS)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 03:35:40 +0100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Cc: Alyce Santoro <alyce@alycesantoro.com>,
"yasmin_announcements@ntlab.gr" <yasmin_announcements@ntlab.gr>
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] let yasmin die ?
Message-ID:
<mailman.1.1612463375.20336.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I would be very interested by the papers claiming that ideas we have are
independant to our appearance.
I think it is only true given the definitions and scopes given. I think
that our body shape, inner image, and body usage is important in supporting
our ideas streams and evolution (rythmn, speed, nature). As a performer
artist and as a scientist, in my experience it is clear, and for others, I
see frequently people respond to the outer (social image), respond with
ideas and actions and inner image.

As for the question of the "nature of viruses" shaping our ideas, well,
"nature of virus" needs to be defined, to my knowledge there is no
scientific meaning behind that. However, it is clear that through the
social impact of such virus as SARS-CoV2, it is clearly influencing our
ideas (their object, and the goals and impact of our ideas may be more
strongly cnnnected to 2020's situation, social, environmental etc). In a
more direct manner, ie through genomic, I'm not aware of such process but
it may exists.

The point of "good" and "bad" virus was the point that provoked me to write
here. "so how do we cross connect yasmin, with the biosphere and the world
of
the viruses we need to learn how to love (the good ones, not the bad ones)
". Viruses are not good or bad in themself, it's a point of view, and it
depends on the timescale. At the individual level, when sickness and death
is involved, it is clearly bad, at the macro-social level, from a human
perspective it is clearly bad too, but from an environment perspective is
has its good points; from a genomic and genetic shuffle, increase of
genomic diversity, it is good, and at long term, there may emerge a genetic
based advantage for the human race to have caught such virus, but it is
hard to tell right now. However, lock downs and strong reduction of human
travels is also reducing hetero genetic encounter and genetic shuffling
through sexual reproduction.

In biology, there is no good or bad, there is evolution, functions (as a
concept of "what is happening"), and better fit to survival or genetic
spreading.

I don't know any way to love any virus. Indifference and fear seem to me
more appropriate associated concepts for such entities, fear especially,
for SARS-CoV2.

I can't stop thinking however about how such pandemy is pushing imagination
and creativity to keep going, survive, meditate and embrace our situation
as human being able to influence in many ways on the societies, and the
biosphere in general, in particular at the level of animal-human
relationships. Way too many animals are being massacred because of covid19
"being around" and fear of inability ot think of solutions, or gather the
funds and ressources of help those animals whom freedom and libre-arbitre
was stolen. Animal genocides. Maybe it is a good moment to take a very good
look to what we are allowing to happen, without taking responsibility (few
are, but clearly only few). Why can't such topic be treated by arts and
biology? Covid19 can be seen as a catalytic component, accelerating a
change for more consciousness, awareness and responsibility.

Mathieu

Le mar. 2 f?vr. 2021 ? 18:37, YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <
yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr> a ?crit :

> yasminers
>
> Alyce Santoro pushes us to think differently with her reply to our
> discussions on whether YASMIN should re-arise ;like a phoenix after
> the pandemic. I think her reply is : MAYBE NOT- read on
>
> alyce says: knowledge production reinforces an impression that humans
> are autonomous entities/outside observers, separate from one another
> and the biosphere?
> and goes on to explain that humans are in-separable from viruses as
> the pandemic is now teaching us again.
>
> my comment: scientists realised only recently that the ideas we have,
> are as independent of the shape of our body as the shape of our
> clothes are ( einstein) so we now need to quote Alyce Santoro are the
> ideas we have independent of the nature of our viruses ?
>
> so how do we cross connect yasmin, with the biosphere and the world of
> the viruses we need to learn how to love (the good ones, not the bad
> ones)
>
>
> Roger Malina
>
> Alyce you say:
> knowledge production reinforce an impression that humans are
> autonomous entities/outside observers, separate from one another and
> the biosphere? Rather, might a fundamental sense of situatedness
> within, instead of outside of or above, an externalized conception of
> ?nature? lead to more constructive, egalitarian,
> humanist/post-humanist, solutions?and might creative practitioners
> ?excavating Could it be that empirical, hierarchical, dualistic forms
> of in the terrains of science? contribute to revealing ?that where
> scientists [alone] could not"? The virus has powerfully demonstrated
> the ways in which humanity is interwoven with and inseparable from the
> vast milieu of planetary systems and forces
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 12:35 PM Alyce Santoro <alyce@alycesantoro.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I would like to elaborate on the point Stephen raises below: "Art
> excavating in the terrains of science, can reveal that where the scientists
> could not?. In a post to the group last April, I asked whether the
> objective stance we are obliged to take as good scientists may lead to an
> unintended consequence: knowledge production reinforce an impression that
> humans are autonomous entities/outside observers, separate from one another
> and the biosphere? Rather, might a fundamental sense of situatedness
> within, instead of outside of or above, an externalized conception of
> ?nature? lead to more constructive, egalitarian, humanist/post-humanist,
> solutions?and might creative practitioners ?excavating Could it be that
> empirical, hierarchical, dualistic forms of in the terrains of science?
> contribute to revealing ?that where scientists [alone] could not"? The
> virus has powerfully demonstrated the ways in which humanity is interwoven
> with and inseparable from the vast milieu of planetary systems and
> forces?at the same time it has emphasized the need for sound science and
> clear science communication.
>>
>> I ask: Can dualism be applied when due, while undue dualism is undone?
>>
>> I would also like to express appreciation for Roger?s mention of Gary
> Hall?s pirate philosophy and Guillermo Munoz? Piratas de la Ciencia. Here
> in the US, Science for the People is doing excellent work to challenge
> "militarization of scientific research, the corporate control of research
> agendas, the political implications of sociobiology and other scientific
> theories, the environmental consequences of energy policy, inequalities in
> health care, and many other issues.?
>>
>> Along the lines of pirate philosophy and the concept of mutual aid, I
> would like to add a recommendation to the work of social
> ecologist/communitarian anarchist philosopher John P. Clark. The Impossible
> Community, Realizing Communitarian Anarchy and Anarchy, Geography,
> Modernity: Selected Writings of Elis?e Reclus.
>>
>> In solidarity,
>> Alyce Santoro
>> alycesantoro.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:52 PM, YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <
> yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yasmin Phoenicians!
>>
>> Among stubborn socio-political/cultural bulwarks in need of being
> pirated by a certain 21st century progressive onset of activism, the
> dualist notion of a co-existing natural/supernatural reality to all things
> looms large. I think huge, actually -- elephant-in-the-room gigantic.
> Disinformation and alternative truths were not invented by Donald Trump --
> they form the mass social-cultural backbone for all of human history --
> i.e., an entirely anti-science notion that beneath its physical facade, the
> Universe is governed by supernatural forces. Not to mention the Earth
> itself, and in the face of today's advanced science, the muck of a deeply
> rooted and institutionalized, powerful and enormously wealthy supernatural
> belief complex among the planet's human animals, coupled with an inability
> of human scientists themselves to exploit and communicate the liberating
> non-supernatural spirituality and ontological meaning inherent in their
> simple search for a truth of things, is like a termite infestation in the
> woodwork structures of progressive desire for change.
>>
>> I don't mean religions per se, there are many humanitarian ones or even
> a God notion whatever that means. It all begins with the stubborn fictional
> meme from our ancient past of "supernatural," derailing the momentum toward
> critical paths to our future at the 21st century. The notion of spirit,
> that being a profoundly emotional connection to existence, needs to be
> pirated from the falsely omniscious supernatural-based institutions that
> wield it, robbed from those pretenders and given back to the "natural"
> (i.e. science) in which it is properly nested, imbued with the rich
> biological sensations of meaning that evolution has gifted us as a reward
> for uncovering truth. Art excavating in the terrains of science, can reveal
> that where the scientists could not.
>>
>> Stephen Nowlin
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:19 PM
>> To: yasmin_announcements@ntlab.gr; yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
>> Subject: yasmin phoenix, pirates, phoenicians and etruscans and and
> emerging digi-indigenous ingenious natives
>>
>> Yasminers
>> and in particular Dalila Honorato, Stephen Nowlin and Luca Forcucci
>> and Gullermo Munoz
>>
>> Dalila triggered the metaphor of YASMIN PHOENIX for the work we are
>> starting to have a new different YASMIN rise from the ashes of the
>> pandemic- let me add that we should think as yasminers as pirates
>>
>> Immediately it triggered my memory of reading Gary Hall's Pirate
>> Philosophy
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/pirate-philosophy__;!!Fh--17vRJmFW!h87pOpvBVOSMBCJEoYBf9xn0QDi5wgjBhCBipq_3iQpbigN8Ir1emxYySevwLtWHNujTwyof$
> and his
>> unpacking the very useful innovation role that pirates played in the
>> Mediterranean- i have copied this email to him in case he has an
>> update on how pirate philosophy might be relevant in the post pandemic
>> digi-indigenous culture that the digi-natives are inventing as we read
>> the new rituals, customs and behaviours for the post pandemic world
>> and its increasing virtual reality- and we digital elders stand back
>> and notice but don't meddle- ok digi-natives take over YASMIN PHOENI
>>
>> secondly YASMIN moderator Guillermo Munoz co founded the group in
>> spain called "pirates of science'
>>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.piratasdelaciencia.com/blog/quienes-somos/__;!!Fh--17vRJmFW!h87pOpvBVOSMBCJEoYBf9xn0QDi5wgjBhCBipq_3iQpbigN8Ir1emxYySevwLtWHNrQ2xq-4$
> so maybe the
>> pirate metaphor could be helpful as we work on the helping the YASMIN
>> PHOENIX arise from the ashes with the help of the YASMIN pirates and
>> phoenicians-- i have copied Guillermo also in case he has some
>> thoughts too
>>
>> luca forcucci also suggested: I am all in for the flight, and let's
>> not forget the Etruscans !
>> all the best Luca
>>
>> and stephen nowlin: Roger -- as our nearest star rises seemingly anew
>> over a political return to some sanity here in the U.S., your news
>> feels timely and welcomed. Happy to climb aboard the flight of the
>> YASMIN Phenix!
>>
>>
>> and
>>
>> Roger Malina
>> more on gary hall below:
>> Gary Hall is a critical theorist and media philosopher working in the
>> areas of digital culture, politics and technology. He is Professor of
>> Media at Coventry University, UK, where he directs the Centre for
>> Postdigital Cultures which brings together media theorists,
>> practitioners, activists and artists.
>>
>> He is the author of a number of books, including The Inhumanist
>> Manifesto (Techne Lab, 2017), Pirate Philosophy (MIT Press, 2016) and
>> The Uberfication of the University (Minnesota UP, 2016).
>>
>> How philosophers and theorists can find new models for the creation,
>> publication, and dissemination of knowledge, challenging the received
>> ideas of originality, authorship, and the book.
>>
>> In Pirate Philosophy, Gary Hall considers whether the fight against
>> the neoliberal corporatization of higher education in fact requires
>> scholars to transform their own lives and labor. Is there a way for
>> philosophers and theorists to act not just for or with the
>> antiausterity and student protestors??graduates without a future??but
>> in terms of their political struggles? Drawing on such phenomena as
>> peer-to-peer file sharing and anticopyright/pro-piracy movements, Hall
>> explores how those in academia can move beyond finding new ways of
>> thinking about the world to find instead new ways of being theorists
>> and philosophers in the world.
>>
>> Hall describes the politics of online sharing, the battles against the
>> current intellectual property regime, and the actions of Anonymous,
>> LulzSec, Aaron Swartz, and others, and he explains Creative Commons
>> and the open access, open source, and free software movements. But in
>> the heart of the book he considers how, when it comes to scholarly
>> ways of creating, performing, and sharing knowledge, philosophers and
>> theorists can challenge not just the neoliberal model of the
>> entrepreneurial academic but also the traditional humanist model with
>> its received ideas of proprietorial authorship, the book, originality,
>> fixity, and the finished object. In other words, can scholars and
>> students today become something like pirate philosophers?
>>
>> and the phoenicians:
>> The Phoenicians came to prominence following the collapse (c. 1150 BC)
>> of most major cultures during the Late Bronze Age. They were renowned
>> in antiquity as adept merchants, expert seafarers, and intrepid
>> explorers.[citation needed] They developed an expansive maritime trade
>> network that lasted over a millennium, becoming the dominant
>> commercial power for much of classical antiquity. Phoenician trade
>> also helped facilitate the exchange of cultures, ideas, and knowledge
>> between major cradles of civilization such as Greece, Egypt, and
>> Mesopotamia. After its zenith in the ninth century BC, the Phoenician
>> civilization in the eastern Mediterranean slowly declined in the face
>> of foreign influence and conquest, though its presence would remain in
>> the central and western Mediterranean until the second century BC.
>>
>>
>> PS words matter: nina czegledy thinks the term 'digi-indigenous' is an
>> inappropriate appropriation of the values of indigenous cultures
>>
>> Roger in Dallas, please phone/txt/ +15108532007 if urgent
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> Yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
>> http://ntlab.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
> http://ntlab.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr
>

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:11:42 +0200
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: "xDxD.vs.xDxD" <xdxd.vs.xdxd@gmail.com>
Cc: Dimitris Charitos <vedesign@otenet.gr>,
yasmin_announcements@ntlab.gr, yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] [Yasmin_announcements] YASMIN next
steps, a new YASMIN discussion
Message-ID:
<mailman.5.1612485282.20336.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hello Roger, Dimitris and Salvatore,

I believe I have been one of the very very silent participants in YASMIN
for almost 13 years now. I connected with Roger when I was still
starting up Arab Digital Expression Foundation in Cairo. The foundation of
our work has been the integration or art, technology, media into
alternative fun educational modules for teenagers and young professionals.
We have since implemented our activities in Egypt, Tunisia and Lebanon,
with our network snowballing year and year as more people are impacted by
our activities. As silent as I have been, I was attentive and curious to
quite a few of the postings on this group. I agree that with the pandemic,
as horribl as it has been, has also opened ways for new possibilities. Now
we are as close to our next door neighbour as we are to anyone in the world
because of the pandemic. and somehow, to me, this makes the world closer to
me. I hence also feel closer to this community. As I expand the work of
ADEF, now also establishing an entity in Berlin and me personally moving
there with my family next summer, I have to say it is exciting what
Salvatore is proposing. I have decided to establish ADEF Berlin because
over the past 6 years many of the active politically and socially engaged
artists, techies, academics, researchers in many Arab countries have moved
to Berlin in fear of their lives - be it the violence in Syria, the
military rule in Egypt or the devastating state of Lebanon. I want to
capitalize on the role of this Arab diaspora.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 5:49 PM xDxD.vs.xDxD <xdxd.vs.xdxd@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Dimitris and everyone!
> it's really nice to see this in the inbox :)
>
>
>> - What would we like to see YASMIN evolving into in the post-pandemic
>> era ?
>>
>> you know Dimitris, I really enjoy staying up to date in what all of you
> are doing and, as a matter of fact, this kind of curated, selectes,
> communal kind of selection that can take place in this kind of mailing list
> helps a lot to grasp signal from noise. From this point of view, I wish
> there was more of this storytelling. What are you all doing? Don't keep it
> to yourselves in these times of isolation and of communicational fatigue. I
> have always had good ideas come up from our interactions.
>
> And, on top of that, I think that in these times one other thing that
> could really spice things up in meaningful ways would be the idea of
> collaboration.
> If, on the one hand, I love to hear what you're doing, I would love even
> more doing something together.
> So why not have collaborations from the beginning of the process? Project
> ideas, partner search, collaborative project writing etc
> Let's do a European project together! Let's find some grants together and
> tackle one or more of the topics we are talking about.
> I've done it already with a couple of you all and it's been wonderful. I
> guess that doing it as an explicitly out in the public, would bring people
> further together and give even more the sense of a Mediterranean way to
> arts+science+technology
>
> to help this not get out of hand, maybe for both these things we could
> have "formats" or something like it: a "what are you up to" format, a
> "project idea" format, a "partner search" format etc
>
> or, we may find out that the "format" thing is too cumbersome, and we just
> need the intention and purpose, and that communal informality fits more the
> mediterranean. I don't know, and I can't say it alone.
>
> But i wanted to bring these two things out, as I feel that they could help
> shape a shared effort and bring us closer together (and also augment
> Yasmin's impact)
>
> cheers and hugs!
> Salvatore
>
> --
> *Art is Open Source *- http://www.artisopensource.net
> *Human Ecosystems Relazioni* - https://www.he-r.it/
> *Ubiquitous Commons *- http://www.ubiquitouscommons.org
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_announcements mailing list
> Yasmin_announcements@ntlab.gr
> http://ntlab.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_announcements_ntlab.gr
>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:28:28 -0600
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_announcements@ntlab.gr, yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] yasminers sense of touch and the
ecological imaginary
Message-ID:
<mailman.6.1612485324.20336.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Speaking of touch? My grad class just went through an exploration of
the senses and examined Sommerer?s Nanoscape (touching what?s not
there through the mind?s eye).

yasminers
read on- alyce santoro , below, raises the issue of 'radical care'
which i immediately connected to the idea of tele-touch that cassini
nazir
brings up below and the whole idea of tele-epistemology ( see ken
goldberg https://goldberg.berkeley.edu/art/tele/intro.html ) where he
discusses the tele-garden which he created (
https://goldberg.berkeley.edu/garden/Ars/ ) and finally annick bureaud
heroric efforts on helping plants get passports (
https://quoartis.org/project/the-traveling-plant/ and also
https://rootsandseedsxxi.eu/leonardo-olats/ )

yes thats what happens in the yasmin phoenix oasis- strange animals
cross connect their work

roger

cassini says
Perhaps there?s a market opportunity for a smart telehaptics company
to simulate virtual touch?Look forward to giving you a hug, too,
Roger!
alyce says
Since the idea of letting yasmin die was in no way intended, please
allow me to rephrase/simplify the essence of my suggestion:

1. Radical care may be an important component of in any/all forms of
phoenix (social, technological, economic, political, scientific, etc).
2. A desire to radically care can stem from a visceral understanding
of interdependence.
3. Radical care is not (nor can or should it be) a tenet of the
scientific method?which, by its very nature, requires an objective,
detached stance.
4. Could science-minded creative practitioners assist in crafting a
new, more radically caring ?ecological imaginary??

Abstract from my recent thesis (which I would be grateful for the
opportunity to discuss with anyone interested, off list if preferred):

The contradictions inherent in European Enlightenment-based ?logics?
that externalize humans from ?nature? were a concern for the Romantic
Naturalists, Dadaists, and Surrealists. More recently, some in the
environmental humanities and socio-ecologically-concerned arts and
sciences have also posed challenges to anthropocentric, hierarchical,
positivist modes of thought. I suggest that by engaging the ludic,
imaginative, and collaborative while bearing the empirical in mind,
dualisms (such as objective and subjective, individual and collective)
dissipate, and existence as a dialectical state of intricate ensemble
can be revealed. In light of catastrophic disruption to Earth?s
life-sustaining processes by exploitative forms of human activity, I
argue an ?ecological imaginary? is urgently needed, and everyone is
capable of contributing to its prefiguring.

Once again, in solidarity,
Alyce
alycesantoro.com

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:13:57 +0100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] Queer Data. Queer AI. Community AI.
Message-ID:
<mailman.7.1612486358.20336.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hello everyone
And, while we discuss our beloved Yasmin-phoenix, here is a little
something that has a distinct mediterranean feeling to it, and that we
could work on and discuss.

We have a publication out in which we describe three terms that we think
could be important in the near future:

Queer Data
Queer AI
Community AI

https://www.he-r.it/queer-data-queer-ai-community-ai-the-importance-of-angel_f-and-iaqos-in-torpignattara-explained-in-a-publication/

let's talk if you wish :)
Best
Salvatore

----------

** Queer Data, Queer AI, Community AI: the importance of Angel_F and IAQOS
in Torpignattara explained in a publication **

A new peer reviewed publication is out which documents our research on what
we?re calling Community AI, starting from our first experiences in 2006
with Angel_F, and arriving to the IAQOS project in Torpignattara/Rome.

This is an important step, as for the first time the concepts of Queer Data
and Queer AI are introduced in this context, hopefully opening up new
dialogues and opportunities for collaboration.

We feel that this is an important step towards contrasting the cultural
hegemony about what Data and AI can be in our societies, and in proposing
viable, accessible, inclusive alternatives.

We invite researchers, activists, social entrepreneurs and groups of
citizens to get in touch with us (the paper includes our email addresses)
for further information and to start collaborations.

--
*Art is Open Source *- http://www.artisopensource.net
*Human Ecosystems Relazioni* - https://www.he-r.it/
*Ubiquitous Commons *- http://www.ubiquitouscommons.org

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 05:55:09 +0100
From: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr>
To: yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Queer Data. Queer AI. Community AI.
Message-ID:
<mailman.9.1612511616.20336.yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr@ntlab.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear Salvatore,

Thanks for raising the subject, which is very interesting and important.

My first search query was "svm minority data":
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=svm+minority+data
And I discovered that it's been years classifiers dealing with minority
data were developed.

On social media, I also can observe that it's difficult to pierce in a
platform (seen on youtube comments and from experience), where it seems
clearly that the strongest are pushed forward, leading to an amplification
of the "popular" and subsequently leading to a silencing of minorities.
While without any effort, it seems natural that when one increase some
poster's connexion (topology) to others (followers, likers, etc), the
poster's visibility increases, it seems that there is a difficulty to
pierce (ie., to beat the algorithm) that is mitigated sometimes by using
specific methods such as posting clickbait titles, posting shocking
content, buying bots in order to increase that connexion, leading
eventually to a lack of authenticity (Fake famous, HBO, 2020).

I see that dealing with minorities is not only a mathematical problem, but
also a political (policy of deployment of an algorithm) and economical
(post explosions lead also to an increased revenue via sponsors) problem on
a platform , and a law problem - law can lag behind disruptive/innovative
(both in tech and social practices) breakthroughs - since the algorithm is
leading to a form of discrimination (positive toward the popular, negative
toward the minority). Maybe there is a way to prove that such practices are
against some law / constitution, and this may lead to creation of new laws
applicable to such AI deployments; that I think would be the most effective
and with long term impact shot.

Mathieu Pr?vot
Polymath arts sciences humanities
Researcher mathematics & computer science, entrepreneur

Le ven. 5 f?vr. 2021 ? 01:52, YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <
yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr> a ?crit :

> Hello everyone
> And, while we discuss our beloved Yasmin-phoenix, here is a little
> something that has a distinct mediterranean feeling to it, and that we
> could work on and discuss.
>
> We have a publication out in which we describe three terms that we think
> could be important in the near future:
>
> Queer Data
> Queer AI
> Community AI
>
>
> https://www.he-r.it/queer-data-queer-ai-community-ai-the-importance-of-angel_f-and-iaqos-in-torpignattara-explained-in-a-publication/
>
> let's talk if you wish :)
> Best
> Salvatore
>
> ----------
>
> ** Queer Data, Queer AI, Community AI: the importance of Angel_F and IAQOS
> in Torpignattara explained in a publication **
>
> A new peer reviewed publication is out which documents our research on what
> we?re calling Community AI, starting from our first experiences in 2006
> with Angel_F, and arriving to the IAQOS project in Torpignattara/Rome.
>
> This is an important step, as for the first time the concepts of Queer Data
> and Queer AI are introduced in this context, hopefully opening up new
> dialogues and opportunities for collaboration.
>
> We feel that this is an important step towards contrasting the cultural
> hegemony about what Data and AI can be in our societies, and in proposing
> viable, accessible, inclusive alternatives.
>
> We invite researchers, activists, social entrepreneurs and groups of
> citizens to get in touch with us (the paper includes our email addresses)
> for further information and to start collaborations.
>
> --
> *Art is Open Source *- http://www.artisopensource.net
> *Human Ecosystems Relazioni* - https://www.he-r.it/
> *Ubiquitous Commons *- http://www.ubiquitouscommons.org
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@ntlab.gr
> http://ntlab.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions_ntlab.gr
>

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Tuesday, February 9, 2021

Yasmin_discussions Digest, Vol 35, Issue 1

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