I was just walkin near by when I saw the discussion, and I want to add 2 points:
- I think the problem is not about developed or undeveloped countries.
>From my opinion, the issue is What kind of definition are we using to
describe this situation for these countries. Because now we call
developed countries to those before mentioned as "The First World".
Chile was considered of the "Third World", and now is a almost
developed country (!).
- And here is the second point: Who or where this denominations are
created from?.
Depending the conceptual model we use, is the result we have, and the
point of view.
Chile is a renown country for its economic success, a no violent
change from dictatorship to Democracy, fiscal order, etc., and if you
come to visit Chile (an ISEA in chile?) can find beautiful buildings,
a world class metro, etc. But still we have big bags of poverty, big
differences in the payment for a job, and few respect for the
indigenous people.
The democracy, the development and the benefits of a "modern" society
not always has been distributed very well. There are layer of
societies that have different levels of development, if we use this
world. Inside one country, we can observe many different countries
with different levels.
So, the idea of "developed country" is a useful to all the cases?,
There is another concepts to refer to an specific state of a nation?
or do we need to build another new kind of framework to define this
kind of situations?
And sorry for my bad english.
r
PS: also the technology is not well distributed...
R
Ricardo Vega
www.ricardov.cl
www.artnumerica.net
08 191 5577, Santiago, Chile
2011/9/28 Tracey M Benson <bytetime@gmail.com>:
> Hi Colette,
>
> My comment is not to say that Istanbul is not evolving still but rather that
> the perception that it is backward and not forward thinking and moving.
>
> Apologies for any confusion - this is a very big topic for discussion and
> perhaps my short post falls very short of expressing the complexity of
> issues that could/should be explored (in terms of the evolution of any
> place/city).
>
> Regards
> Tracey
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 10:20 PM, c.tron@voila.fr <c.tron@voila.fr> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>> I must say that I don't understand very well.
>> If you don't want to ear "still in development", do you mean that the
>> development of istanbul has stopped ?
>> I am from Marseille, and it is in France, and it is a poor city, and it is
>> still in development because the city is still in tranformation, moving,
>> changing its image.
>> And it is not the same situation than Istanbul
>> And if you read to the turkish Nobel price of litterature Orhan Pamuk, you
>> can understand how Turkey has changed since the Ottoman empire, and how it
>> has fall down during the XXth century.
>> Now, for him, and I think in many points of view, it is better, and we have
>> to distinguish the current economy from the hundreds of centuries of culture
>> of a country.
>> I hope everybody had time to visit the fabulous historical sites in
>> Istambul, and you can see the great Ottoman empire, and even the magnificent
>> byzantine culture
>> And it continues to grow, to exchange, to invent, to develop, Isn't it ?
>> Colette
>>
>>
>>
>> > Message du 28/09/11 à 13h49
>> > De : "Elif Ayiter"
>> > A : "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS" , "Cynthia Beth Rubin"
>> > Copie à :
>> > Objet : Re: [Yasmin_discussions] ISEA feedback
>> >
>> > Cynthia, a heartfelt thank you for your correction, to which I will
>> > add a few words, if you will allow me:
>> >
>> > Contrary to popular belief, what you call "newly engaging more
>> > conversation with Western Europe/North America...", and what I
>> > personally prefer to call the process of democratization and
>> > secularization of the Ottoman Empire, did not start a decade ago or
>> > indeed materialize overnight in 1923 with the founding of the Turkish
>> > Republic, but has its origins in the first half of the 19th century,
>> > starting with Sultan Mecid and his extensive legal and social reforms,
>> > for which you can see the wikipedia entry here:
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzimat
>> >
>> > As for this city "still in development": Here, an estimated 3 million
>> > people spend weekend nights in an area which is after all only a few
>> > square miles wide. You have all been there, you have witnessed it with
>> > your own eyes. Huge, indeed overwhelming crowds, and yet hardly ever a
>> > fight, a brawl, an incident... And this despite some serious alcohol
>> > consumption, I might add!
>> >
>> > In this city "still in development", instead of collecting them in
>> > shelters and then heartlessly putting them down, the city
>> > administration provides healthcare for its thousands of "city dogs"
>> > which are taken care of, fed and sheltered by shop keepers and market
>> > vendors throughout the city. Needless to even say, quite a big budget
>> > is set aside in this city "still in development" for this task, since
>> > the city provided animal healthcare includes a yearly booster shot for
>> > rabies, which is checked through an RFID system implemented through
>> > ear tags, with appended mobile veterinary teams etc...
>> >
>> > ;-)
>> > elif
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue 27 Sep 2011 16:40:52 EEST, Cynthia Beth Rubin wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi Colette and All
>> > >
>> > > I have been part of a few discussions on ISEA2011 on other lists,
>> > > and it is refreshing to read Colette's positive summary. It makes me
>> > > wish that I had chosen what to attend more carefully - and i look
>> > > forward to seeing more about these panels on line. So much to do in
>> > > so many days - and the compression led to a certain overload at
>> > > times, that I believe that some of the best discussions to come may
>> > > take place in the post-isea blogosphere. I plan to create blog for
>> > > the panel that i chaired, and which ended up being far too
>> > > compressed for the open discussion that that we now envision. (an
>> > > aside - we had a free google site for the panel that we had planned
>> > > to make live after ISE but I discovered that google sites are
>> > > blocked in Turkey, although most smart Turkish people get around
>> > > this by putting in an IP address that is from another country)
>> > >
>> > > A small correction to your thoughtful post. Turkey is not "still in
>> > > development" - it is rather newly engaging more conversation with
>> > > Western Europe/North America. (by new I mean last decade, not just
>> > > this year). Turkish culture is quite developed, and has been for
>> > > centuries. I was surprised to find ISEA goers who did not
>> > > know/remember that less than 100 years ago Istanbul was the center
>> > > of a great Empire with influence that extended throughout Eastern
>> > > Asia and the Middle East, and into Europe. Several Turkish artists
>> > > that I spoke with found it distressing that those coming from the
>> > > countries that are now in power think of Turkey as under-developed.
>> > >
>> > > best wishes,
>> > > Cynthia
>> > >
>> > > Cynthia Beth Rubin
>> > > http://CBRubin.net
>> > >
>> > > =========
>> > >
>> > > Hi everybody,
>> > > I have participed to ISEA for the 3rd time (Nagoya, Singapore,
>> > > Istanbul), and it is still a big event in many ways and not only in
>> > > quantity but in the quality of programm and discussions. It is an
>> > > amazing brainstorming where people from so many countries can
>> > > exchange about so many medias and practices, and in addition get
>> > > some thinking, theories, and perspectives about electronic and
>> > > digital tools and culture.
>> > > Some little things that I can say :
>> > > - it was so important to cross electronic art (ISEA) and
>> > > contemporary art (Istanbul biennal) in a place, it means in a city,
>> > > and a city as Istanbul , that is still in development, and at the
>> > > junction of Europe and Asia... Now we have to know where can be the
>> > > junctions between these practices : are they so different, are they
>> > > in the same fields, are they in different economies, how to think
>> > > their environment, technics, modes of production and diffusion ? We
>> > > can see that the exhibitions for the practices and conferences for
>> > > the theory are still the way to present them. In which kind of
>> > > public area, in which modes of knowledge and culture can we share
>> > > our experiments and creation, thinking and theory ? Can it be a way
>> > > to explore the future of isea ? Can it be a way to invent some new
>> > > tools, new objects (as things), new spaces ? For example, I was very
>> > > interested by the experimentation by the Collectif Nunc
>> > > www.nunc.com to explore the rôle of the catalogue as a way of
>> > > knowledge, and creation ; and it is only one example
>> > >
>> > > - I was very interesseted too by the Mediterranean forum on digital
>> > > culture, and the links with the arabic revolution. It was such
>> > > appropriate to speak about that in an other mediterranean country,
>> > > and to learn about how people used the digital and global media in
>> > > one part of the world, that could be seen as a local revolution, but
>> > > concerning the total humanity. And also it would be great to follow
>> > > the discussion, cause : the revolution is going on and needs to be
>> > > thinked to be realized, and new models seem to be necessary to
>> > > invent. But, in that way, it is not only a local problem, but a
>> > > global, if we think to the difficulties that each country can have
>> > > with the economic crise. New medias could help to these non
>> > > institutionnal exchanges. And help to find ways to invent a virtual
>> > > global public space
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > At the end I want to think all the people that organized this ISEA,
>> > > and above all to think Baruch Gotlieb who was my panel chair about
>> > > The persistence of hardware. I think we have open the beginning of a
>> > > discussion about the electronic and digital environment that
>> > > concern material, energy, production, economy, culture… that it
>> > > would be important to follow and to developp cause it is a very
>> > > crucial question in the use of these technology and its
>> > > consequences, that is not so immaterial…
>> > >
>> > > Regards to all
>> > > Colette Tron
>> > > Marseille, France
>> > > www.alphabetville.org
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
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>> > > Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> > > http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>> > >
>> > > Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
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>> >
>> >
>> > elif ayiter
>> > Sabanci University
>> > FASS VACD
>> >
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>> ___________________________________________________________
>> Les images du Salon de l'auto de Francfort : les voitures écolos, les
>> sportives, les hôtesses sont sur Voila.fr
>> http://actu.voila.fr/evenementiel/salon-auto-francfort-2011/
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Dr Tracey Meziane Benson (aka bytetime)
> Adjunct Postdoctoral Fellow || The Australian National University || School
> of Music
> Visiting Scholar || The Australian University || School of Cultural Inquiry
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