[Yasmin_discussions] Doing and Studying International Collaboration in the Sciences, Arts and the Humanities

Hello all,

I have been a bit slow to post as I had to do some admin updates on my
subscription, but all working now - (I hope).

ANAT has been involved in art/science research collaboration for over ten
years, five of which as a part of the Synapse initiative between ANAT and
the Australia Council for the Arts.

Recently ANAT and the Australia Council for the Arts got together those who
have been involved in the residencies to initiate, what we hope, will be a
research process that will tell us much more about these collaborations and
also initiate the building of a strong art/science community. The discussion
we had was wide ranging, but one point that really struck me was the concept
that we need to redefine what is an artistic career and for that matter what
is a science career. The inherent interdisciplinary nature of successful art
science collaboration creates a different discipline and it seems worth, as
we enter this dialogue, to suspend what we expect from these separate areas
and envision what the new practice might be. This will mean both the arts
and science each being willing to give some of their turf.

To pick on robotics research as an example where the technology has gone
beyond the technical basics to where deeper questions of what it is to be
human need to be answered if the technology is to advance. The research is
no longer pure technology research, it is about interfaces with people -
where engineering, psychology, aesthetics and art meet. From an arts
perspective robotics is a broad and responsive creative dialogue involving
what it means to be human now and into the future. This is an artistic
practice not destined for the gallery, but rather destined to have a much
broader impact on how we live.

So we may have students who want to have a career in robotics so they study
art and students interested in art studying robotics - the point being the
interdisciplinary nature that will be needed for successful creative,
cultural and research out comes, will become the same. In the arts we still
suffer under the weighty concept of the heroic individual as artist, when at
the same time, we are moving into an era that relies increasingly on
interdisciplinary collaboration where the results will be more diffuse and
more difficult to attribute to a single creator.

Gavin Artz | CEO

Australian Network for Art and Technology [ANAT]
e: ceo@anat.org.au | ph: 61 8 8231 9037
www.anat.org.au | www.filter.org.au | www.synapse.net.au
Twitter: __ANAT | Facebook: http://bit.ly/bF9fXl

The Australian Network for Art and Technology (ANAT) is supported by the
Visual Arts and Craft Strategy, an initiative of the Australian, State and
Territory Governments; the Australian Government through the Australia
Council, its arts funding and advisory body, and the South Australian
Government through Arts SA.

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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] : International Collaboration in the Sciences and Humanities

OK...Roger volunteered a topic I suggested for this and I've been tied up
with some other things until now - the focus of this was originally on
collaboration, presumably large-scale or international in scope, within the
social science, humanities, arts or "natural sciences"...not necessarily
between arts and sciences which, as many have noted, already has a strong
and notable record for collaboration.

On 5/31/10 1:48 PM, "Simon Biggs" <s.biggs@eca.ac.uk> wrote:

> I have also been too busy to chip in...but the following might be of
> interest:
>
> http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/leon.2006.39.5.441
>
> and:
>
> http://writing-research.nl/?q=node/78
>
> Best
>
> Simon
>
>
> Simon Biggs
> s.biggs@eca.ac.uk simon@littlepig.org.uk Skype: simonbiggsuk
> http://www.littlepig.org.uk/
> Research Professor edinburgh college of art http://www.eca.ac.uk/
> Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments
> http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
> Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice
> http://www.elmcip.net/
> Centre for Film, Performance and Media Arts
> http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/film-performance-media-arts
>
>
>
> From: Ernest <ernest@ernestedmonds.com>
> Reply-To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 01:31:17 +0100
> To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] : International Collaboration in the
> Sciences and Humanities
>
> Like others, I have been very slow to join the discussion - too busy,
> my apologies.
>
> [Re a taxonomy - see Candy and Edmonds below]
>
> I will try to make a quick summary.
>
> An overview of what we know about some aspects can be see at
> http://www.leonardo-transactions.com/announcements/?page=5
> in the article "How Artists Fit Into the Research Process" which
> makes the following recommendations:-
> 1. Artists should agree to record their creative process, including
> failures.
>
> 2. Each project should have multiple planned outputs so that
> scientific and artistic goals are visibly achieved.
>
> 3. Observation and evaluation of the collaboration process should be
> explicitly included in the outputs.
>
> 4. New relationships and extended networks are common benefits of long-
> term commitments.
>
> 5. Team selection and team building are important. It cannot be
> assumed that a good artist and a good scientist will necessarily form
> a productive team.
>
> 6. Where artworks produced are interactive, provision should be made
> to undertake Obeta-testing¹ with audiences in realistic contexts.
>
> The other key issue is control/partnership/authorship. Different
> models are used. The artist in control is the old way of doing things.
> If the artist does not program this doesn't always seem to work all
> that well because they may not understand the medium enough.
> Partnerships can be better in that respect, but then aesthetic as well
> technical decisions are shared - so some people go for team authorship.
>
> We have published quite a bit on this subject.
> See, for example:-
> Candy, L and Edmonds, E. A. "Explorations in Art and Technology".
> Springer-Verlag, London. 2002.
> Edmonds, E. A., Weakley, A. J., Candy, L., Fell, M. J., Knott, R. P.
> and Pauletto, S. "The Studio as Laboratory: Combining Creative
> Practice and Digital Technology Research". IJHCS vol. 63, issue 4-5,
> October 2005. pp452-481.
> Edmonds, E., A. Bilda, Z. & Muller, L. (2009) Artist, evaluator and
> curator: three viewpoints on interactive art, evaluation and audience
> experience. Digital Creativity, 20, 141 - 151.
> and Yun Zhang's Phd - "Investigating collaboration in art and
> technology" at:-
> http://linus.lib.uts.edu.au/search~S3?/c700.105+ZHAN/
> c700.105+zhan/-3%2C-1%2C0%2CE/frameset&FF=c700.105+zhan&1%2C1%2C
>
> Collaboration is a central part of current art practice and, indeed,
> is at the core of much funding. See the Welcome Trust in the UK,
> Synapse from the Australian Council and ARC (in Australia), CreateIT
> from NSF in the USA etc.
>
> A quick scan of all of the above will show that the collaborations are
> often international - so I did not comment on that aspect.
>
> Ernest
>
>
> On 29/05/2010, at 11:36 PM, Paul Brown wrote:
>
>>
>> On 29/05/2010, at 11:07 PM, Jennifer Kanary Nikolov(a) wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone made a taxonomy of different types of collaboration?
>>>
>>
>> In my talks I have broken art-science collaborations into three
>> broad categories:
>>
>> 1. Art appropriates science - an artist takes an scientific idea
>> and bases an artwork on it. Although scientists may collaborate
>> they do not directly benefit (perhaps some good PR) and, if the work
>> is critical they may suffer (bad PR).
>>
>> 2. Science appropriate arts - for eg. artists doing scientific
>> visualisation. This can be a useful money earner for an artist but
>> they must attenuate their own creative needs to the intentions of
>> the science.
>>
>> 3. True collaboration - all the participant have an equal ownership
>> in a project and all contribute directly towards and benefit
>> directly from it. These kind of collaborations may not be project
>> focussed and may be ongoing. This is a true interdisciplinary
>> collaboration and a good example is the number of scientific centres
>> who have regular or ongoing artists-in-residence because they have
>> recognised the value of a different perspective from their own.
>>
>> There is good work to be seen in all of these areas though my
>> preference as I have got older is for the latter.
>>
>> Best
>> Paul
>>
>> ====
>> Paul Brown - based in OZ April to November 2010
>> mailto:paul@paul-brown.com == http://www.paul-brown.com
>> OZ Landline +61 (0)7 3391 0094 == USA fax +1 309 216 9900
>> OZ Mobile +61 (0)419 72 74 85 == Skype paul-g-brown
>> ====
>> Visiting Professor - Sussex University
>> http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/ccnr/research/creativity.html
>> ====
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>
>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>
>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
>> subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-
>> mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down
>> the page.
>>
>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
>> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
>> asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear
>> ("options page").
>>
>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
>> "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>
> __________________________
> http://www.ernestedmonds.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In
> the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
> password in the fields found further down the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your
> e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>
>
> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number
> SC009201
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In
> the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
> password in the fields found further down the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your
> e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest
> Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.

HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").

HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

Re: [Yasmin_discussions] : International Collaboration in the Sciences and Humanities

I have also been too busy to chip in...but the following might be of
interest:

http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/leon.2006.39.5.441

and:

http://writing-research.nl/?q=node/78

Best

Simon

Simon Biggs
s.biggs@eca.ac.uk simon@littlepig.org.uk Skype: simonbiggsuk
http://www.littlepig.org.uk/
Research Professor edinburgh college of art http://www.eca.ac.uk/
Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments
http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice
http://www.elmcip.net/
Centre for Film, Performance and Media Arts
http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/film-performance-media-arts

From: Ernest <ernest@ernestedmonds.com>
Reply-To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 01:31:17 +0100
To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] : International Collaboration in the
Sciences and Humanities

Like others, I have been very slow to join the discussion - too busy,
my apologies.

[Re a taxonomy - see Candy and Edmonds below]

I will try to make a quick summary.

An overview of what we know about some aspects can be see at
http://www.leonardo-transactions.com/announcements/?page=5
in the article "How Artists Fit Into the Research Process" which
makes the following recommendations:-
1. Artists should agree to record their creative process, including
failures.

2. Each project should have multiple planned outputs so that
scientific and artistic goals are visibly achieved.

3. Observation and evaluation of the collaboration process should be
explicitly included in the outputs.

4. New relationships and extended networks are common benefits of long-
term commitments.

5. Team selection and team building are important. It cannot be
assumed that a good artist and a good scientist will necessarily form
a productive team.

6. Where artworks produced are interactive, provision should be made
to undertake Obeta-testing¹ with audiences in realistic contexts.

The other key issue is control/partnership/authorship. Different
models are used. The artist in control is the old way of doing things.
If the artist does not program this doesn't always seem to work all
that well because they may not understand the medium enough.
Partnerships can be better in that respect, but then aesthetic as well
technical decisions are shared - so some people go for team authorship.

We have published quite a bit on this subject.
See, for example:-
Candy, L and Edmonds, E. A. "Explorations in Art and Technology".
Springer-Verlag, London. 2002.
Edmonds, E. A., Weakley, A. J., Candy, L., Fell, M. J., Knott, R. P.
and Pauletto, S. "The Studio as Laboratory: Combining Creative
Practice and Digital Technology Research". IJHCS vol. 63, issue 4-5,
October 2005. pp452-481.
Edmonds, E., A. Bilda, Z. & Muller, L. (2009) Artist, evaluator and
curator: three viewpoints on interactive art, evaluation and audience
experience. Digital Creativity, 20, 141 - 151.
and Yun Zhang's Phd - "Investigating collaboration in art and
technology" at:-
http://linus.lib.uts.edu.au/search~S3?/c700.105+ZHAN/
c700.105+zhan/-3%2C-1%2C0%2CE/frameset&FF=c700.105+zhan&1%2C1%2C

Collaboration is a central part of current art practice and, indeed,
is at the core of much funding. See the Welcome Trust in the UK,
Synapse from the Australian Council and ARC (in Australia), CreateIT
from NSF in the USA etc.

A quick scan of all of the above will show that the collaborations are
often international - so I did not comment on that aspect.

Ernest

On 29/05/2010, at 11:36 PM, Paul Brown wrote:

>
> On 29/05/2010, at 11:07 PM, Jennifer Kanary Nikolov(a) wrote:
>
>> Has anyone made a taxonomy of different types of collaboration?
>>
>
> In my talks I have broken art-science collaborations into three
> broad categories:
>
> 1. Art appropriates science - an artist takes an scientific idea
> and bases an artwork on it. Although scientists may collaborate
> they do not directly benefit (perhaps some good PR) and, if the work
> is critical they may suffer (bad PR).
>
> 2. Science appropriate arts - for eg. artists doing scientific
> visualisation. This can be a useful money earner for an artist but
> they must attenuate their own creative needs to the intentions of
> the science.
>
> 3. True collaboration - all the participant have an equal ownership
> in a project and all contribute directly towards and benefit
> directly from it. These kind of collaborations may not be project
> focussed and may be ongoing. This is a true interdisciplinary
> collaboration and a good example is the number of scientific centres
> who have regular or ongoing artists-in-residence because they have
> recognised the value of a different perspective from their own.
>
> There is good work to be seen in all of these areas though my
> preference as I have got older is for the latter.
>
> Best
> Paul
>
> ====
> Paul Brown - based in OZ April to November 2010
> mailto:paul@paul-brown.com == http://www.paul-brown.com
> OZ Landline +61 (0)7 3391 0094 == USA fax +1 309 216 9900
> OZ Mobile +61 (0)419 72 74 85 == Skype paul-g-brown
> ====
> Visiting Professor - Sussex University
> http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/ccnr/research/creativity.html
> ====
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
> subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-
> mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down
> the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
> asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear
> ("options page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

__________________________
http://www.ernestedmonds.com

_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In
the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
password in the fields found further down the page.

HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your
e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").

HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC009201

_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.

HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").

HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

Re: [Yasmin_discussions] : International Collaboration in the Sciences and Humanities

Like others, I have been very slow to join the discussion - too busy,
my apologies.

[Re a taxonomy - see Candy and Edmonds below]

I will try to make a quick summary.

An overview of what we know about some aspects can be see at http://www.leonardo-transactions.com/announcements/?page=5
in the article "How Artists Fit Into the Research Process" which
makes the following recommendations:-
1. Artists should agree to record their creative process, including
failures.

2. Each project should have multiple planned outputs so that
scientific and artistic goals are visibly achieved.

3. Observation and evaluation of the collaboration process should be
explicitly included in the outputs.

4. New relationships and extended networks are common benefits of long-
term commitments.

5. Team selection and team building are important. It cannot be
assumed that a good artist and a good scientist will necessarily form
a productive team.

6. Where artworks produced are interactive, provision should be made
to undertake 'beta-testing' with audiences in realistic contexts.

The other key issue is control/partnership/authorship. Different
models are used. The artist in control is the old way of doing things.
If the artist does not program this doesn't always seem to work all
that well because they may not understand the medium enough.
Partnerships can be better in that respect, but then aesthetic as well
technical decisions are shared - so some people go for team authorship.

We have published quite a bit on this subject.
See, for example:-
Candy, L and Edmonds, E. A. "Explorations in Art and Technology".
Springer-Verlag, London. 2002.
Edmonds, E. A., Weakley, A. J., Candy, L., Fell, M. J., Knott, R. P.
and Pauletto, S. "The Studio as Laboratory: Combining Creative
Practice and Digital Technology Research". IJHCS vol. 63, issue 4-5,
October 2005. pp452-481.
Edmonds, E., A. Bilda, Z. & Muller, L. (2009) Artist, evaluator and
curator: three viewpoints on interactive art, evaluation and audience
experience. Digital Creativity, 20, 141 - 151.
and Yun Zhang's Phd - "Investigating collaboration in art and
technology" at:-
http://linus.lib.uts.edu.au/search~S3?/c700.105+ZHAN/
c700.105+zhan/-3%2C-1%2C0%2CE/frameset&FF=c700.105+zhan&1%2C1%2C

Collaboration is a central part of current art practice and, indeed,
is at the core of much funding. See the Welcome Trust in the UK,
Synapse from the Australian Council and ARC (in Australia), CreateIT
from NSF in the USA etc.

A quick scan of all of the above will show that the collaborations are
often international - so I did not comment on that aspect.

Ernest

On 29/05/2010, at 11:36 PM, Paul Brown wrote:

>
> On 29/05/2010, at 11:07 PM, Jennifer Kanary Nikolov(a) wrote:
>
>> Has anyone made a taxonomy of different types of collaboration?
>>
>
> In my talks I have broken art-science collaborations into three
> broad categories:
>
> 1. Art appropriates science - an artist takes an scientific idea
> and bases an artwork on it. Although scientists may collaborate
> they do not directly benefit (perhaps some good PR) and, if the work
> is critical they may suffer (bad PR).
>
> 2. Science appropriate arts - for eg. artists doing scientific
> visualisation. This can be a useful money earner for an artist but
> they must attenuate their own creative needs to the intentions of
> the science.
>
> 3. True collaboration - all the participant have an equal ownership
> in a project and all contribute directly towards and benefit
> directly from it. These kind of collaborations may not be project
> focussed and may be ongoing. This is a true interdisciplinary
> collaboration and a good example is the number of scientific centres
> who have regular or ongoing artists-in-residence because they have
> recognised the value of a different perspective from their own.
>
> There is good work to be seen in all of these areas though my
> preference as I have got older is for the latter.
>
> Best
> Paul
>
> ====
> Paul Brown - based in OZ April to November 2010
> mailto:paul@paul-brown.com == http://www.paul-brown.com
> OZ Landline +61 (0)7 3391 0094 == USA fax +1 309 216 9900
> OZ Mobile +61 (0)419 72 74 85 == Skype paul-g-brown
> ====
> Visiting Professor - Sussex University
> http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/ccnr/research/creativity.html
> ====
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
> subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-
> mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down
> the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
> asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear
> ("options page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

__________________________
http://www.ernestedmonds.com

_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.

HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").

HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

Re: [Yasmin_discussions] : International Collaboration in the Sciences and Humanities

On 29/05/2010, at 11:07 PM, Jennifer Kanary Nikolov(a) wrote:

> Has anyone made a taxonomy of different types of collaboration?
>

In my talks I have broken art-science collaborations into three broad categories:

1. Art appropriates science - an artist takes an scientific idea and bases an artwork on it. Although scientists may collaborate they do not directly benefit (perhaps some good PR) and, if the work is critical they may suffer (bad PR).

2. Science appropriate arts - for eg. artists doing scientific visualisation. This can be a useful money earner for an artist but they must attenuate their own creative needs to the intentions of the science.

3. True collaboration - all the participant have an equal ownership in a project and all contribute directly towards and benefit directly from it. These kind of collaborations may not be project focussed and may be ongoing. This is a true interdisciplinary collaboration and a good example is the number of scientific centres who have regular or ongoing artists-in-residence because they have recognised the value of a different perspective from their own.

There is good work to be seen in all of these areas though my preference as I have got older is for the latter.

Best
Paul

====
Paul Brown - based in OZ April to November 2010
mailto:paul@paul-brown.com == http://www.paul-brown.com
OZ Landline +61 (0)7 3391 0094 == USA fax +1 309 216 9900
OZ Mobile +61 (0)419 72 74 85 == Skype paul-g-brown
====
Visiting Professor - Sussex University
http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/ccnr/research/creativity.html
====

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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] : International Collaboration in the Sciences and Humanities

I'm sorry for suddenly appears in the discussion but I'm not having time to
collaborate. I'm a PhD student at the University of Sao Paulo in Brazil and
at the moment a visiting researcher at the CAiiA-Hub, Planetary Collegium,
living in Plymouth, UK. I read the conversation about art and science and
remember this interesting database:

http://www.synapse.net.au/

<http://www.synapse.net.au/>Clarissa Ribeiro

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2010/5/29 Jennifer Kanary Nikolov(a) <jenniferkanary@yahoo.com>

> It seems that this discussion is in a silent bubble....
>
> but perhaps there are a lot of people who still might share their
> experiences and idea's on which factors are successes and which are pitfalls
> in art-science collaborations. It's such an old discussion at the same time,
> so perhaps people might point out existing discourse? Has anyone made a
> taxonomy of different types of collaboration?
>
> Dear Lea,
>
> You wrote:
>
>
>
> "Jennifer, I was really interested in reading your vision about what makes
> collaborations between artists and scientists successful and how the
> ultimate
> goal of successful collaborations would be knowledge production. I do not
> know
> what the percentage of collaborations between artists and scientists, which
> produce knowledge, is, but I bet it is not very high. It seems to me to be
> quite
> an ambitious task to aim for producing knowledge, even so it is undoubtedly
> a
> sign of success.
>
> In my opinion, a successful collaboration is when the expectations of
> both sides (art and science) are met. [Of course, defining the expectations
> and
> the aims of the collaboration are vital in order to produce a successful
> collaboration.] Generating knowledge would be for me going beyond the
> expectations and almost the icing on the cake (unless of course it was the
> aim
> of the project from the starting point)."
>
> The idea of art as a form of knowledge production is being discussed in the
> emerging field of artistic research.
>
> I think it is important that when scientists (academics) and artists want
> to collaborate with the aim of new forms of knowledge production, that they
> consider to formulate their research question together. So indeed having a
> collective aim at the beginning. I believe that when artists and scientists
> first get to know each others languages (for instance in a Socratic
> Discourse Bootcamp as we do with our students) they formulate questions that
> they otherwise might not do. And they can find ways of finding answers to
> the questions from several different methods that they would normally not
> try. It means that both the artist and the scientist temporarily need to let
> go of their backgrounds in order to best formulate how a question can best
> be approached.
>
> To give an example. We now have a group that studies the question: "Can You
> Take the Top Off of a Mountain?" A deceptively simple question at first, but
> this question allows for approaches from numerous fields. How would you
> approach this question from your field of expertise and what knowledge do
> you think it could generate when combined? As soon as you take a top off, a
> new top exists. What do you consider as the top? The highest blade of Grass?
> The structure on a building on the top? The atmosphere just above the trees?
> This approach led the group to now study possible (social and political)
> implications of Saba becoming part of the Netherlands, thereby taking away
> the official highest point of The Netherlands, which normally was in Vaals.
> They chose to combine methods of interviews with academics with the artistic
> method of found footage (video and photographs). They built a scale model of
> the height difference within the school stairway section so
> that one could experience the difference in height etc. They are now
> talking to politicians involved. They are still in the process of
> understanding the 'urgency' of such research, but already it is very
> promising.
>
> Last year we had a group that studied public spaces at night by
> experimenting in social activities at different locations at different
> times. For instance by handing out freshly squeezed orange juice in winter
> at temperatures of - 5 C. The interaction of public at the different times
> and locations provided insight into the effects of different designs of
> public spaces at night time. It said something about how comfortable people
> felt at night in different locations.This was later found valuable by
> municipal initiatives such as Museum Night.
>
> I do not think that this method of working and combining is new in the
> sense of never been done before, but by allowing questions to form from a
> middle ground platform we professionalise such practice. We provide
> platforms for 'hybrid' people who could not chose between the arts or the
> sciences in their education. And Yes, I think that this is currently only
> being done by few. Acting and doing in ways that you normally do not, the
> experience, brings that edge, that extra value. There is an extra challenge
> in understanding which methods to use that are best to present the research
> results...the results themselves being perhaps not completely artistic and
> not completely scientific, but inspiring speculation that opens windows to
> new discourses.
>
> One successful method of finding common ground on collaboration and forming
> a combined research question we use is to ask the students from University
> and Art School to bring a set of 'rules' with them. This is done in a
> workshop by the artist and academic Tine Melzer. Any rule will do. Think
> about: 'it has to be white', 'become naked', it has to be 25 x 40 x 65 cm.
> We then mix the rules and ask them to produce work based on these rules,
> using them all. We encourage taking the rules very literal. This is a
> successful way of letting go and at the same time using your particular
> background. The rules become the glue between the different methods.
>
> Pitfalls are to get over our fear of 'Bad' science and 'Bad' art and just
> do. As the guest teacher Tine Melzer said to the students in her workshop.
> Lets decide later if something is silly or not, if it is art or not.
>
> Jennifer
> _______________________________________________
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>
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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] : International Collaboration in the Sciences and Humanities

It seems that this discussion is in a silent bubble....

but perhaps there are a lot of people who still might share their experiences and idea's on which factors are successes and which are pitfalls in art-science collaborations. It's such an old discussion at the same time, so perhaps people might point out existing discourse? Has anyone made a taxonomy of different types of collaboration?

Dear Lea,

You wrote:

"Jennifer, I was really interested in reading your vision about what makes
collaborations between artists and scientists successful and how the ultimate
goal of successful collaborations would be knowledge production. I do not know
what the percentage of collaborations between artists and scientists, which
produce knowledge, is, but I bet it is not very high. It seems to me to be quite
an ambitious task to aim for producing knowledge, even so it is undoubtedly a
sign of success.

In my opinion, a successful collaboration is when the expectations of
both sides (art and science) are met. [Of course, defining the expectations and
the aims of the collaboration are vital in order to produce a successful
collaboration.] Generating knowledge would be for me going beyond the
expectations and almost the icing on the cake (unless of course it was the aim
of the project from the starting point)."

The idea of art as a form of knowledge production is being discussed in the emerging field of artistic research.

I think it is important that when scientists (academics) and artists want to collaborate with the aim of new forms of knowledge production, that they consider to formulate their research question together. So indeed having a collective aim at the beginning. I believe that when artists and scientists first get to know each others languages (for instance in a Socratic Discourse Bootcamp as we do with our students) they formulate questions that they otherwise might not do. And they can find ways of finding answers to the questions from several different methods that they would normally not try. It means that both the artist and the scientist temporarily need to let go of their backgrounds in order to best formulate how a question can best be approached.

To give an example. We now have a group that studies the question: "Can You Take the Top Off of a Mountain?" A deceptively simple question at first, but this question allows for approaches from numerous fields. How would you approach this question from your field of expertise and what knowledge do you think it could generate when combined? As soon as you take a top off, a new top exists. What do you consider as the top? The highest blade of Grass? The structure on a building on the top? The atmosphere just above the trees? This approach led the group to now study possible (social and political) implications of Saba becoming part of the Netherlands, thereby taking away the official highest point of The Netherlands, which normally was in Vaals. They chose to combine methods of interviews with academics with the artistic method of found footage (video and photographs). They built a scale model of the height difference within the school stairway section so
that one could experience the difference in height etc. They are now talking to politicians involved. They are still in the process of understanding the 'urgency' of such research, but already it is very promising.

Last year we had a group that studied public spaces at night by experimenting in social activities at different locations at different times. For instance by handing out freshly squeezed orange juice in winter at temperatures of - 5 C. The interaction of public at the different times and locations provided insight into the effects of different designs of public spaces at night time. It said something about how comfortable people felt at night in different locations.This was later found valuable by municipal initiatives such as Museum Night.

I do not think that this method of working and combining is new in the sense of never been done before, but by allowing questions to form from a middle ground platform we professionalise such practice. We provide platforms for 'hybrid' people who could not chose between the arts or the sciences in their education. And Yes, I think that this is currently only being done by few. Acting and doing in ways that you normally do not, the experience, brings that edge, that extra value. There is an extra challenge in understanding which methods to use that are best to present the research results...the results themselves being perhaps not completely artistic and not completely scientific, but inspiring speculation that opens windows to new discourses.

One successful method of finding common ground on collaboration and forming a combined research question we use is to ask the students from University and Art School to bring a set of 'rules' with them. This is done in a workshop by the artist and academic Tine Melzer. Any rule will do. Think about: 'it has to be white', 'become naked', it has to be 25 x 40 x 65 cm. We then mix the rules and ask them to produce work based on these rules, using them all. We encourage taking the rules very literal. This is a successful way of letting go and at the same time using your particular background. The rules become the glue between the different methods.

Pitfalls are to get over our fear of 'Bad' science and 'Bad' art and just do. As the guest teacher Tine Melzer said to the students in her workshop. Lets decide later if something is silly or not, if it is art or not.

Jennifer
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[Yasmin_discussions] Hello . _--3

Dear friend,
 Good day.I have a Japanese friend,His company is holding a promoting action, I hope you may join it,the company sell some electronic products such as motorbike,GPS notebook laptop,TV,cellphone,camera,psp. they are made in Korea,Japan and so on.the price is very low .if you want to buy it ,please visit www.oanls1.com/  and choose the products you like,and their company may handsel  some small products as gift. if you are satisfied with the product after you receive it,please introduce it to your friends.
thank you , have a nice day.

 e--j

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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] International Collaboration in the Sciences and Humanities

Hi-

To Roger's gracious promotion of my work on "visioneers" and radical ideas
for the technological future, I would just add the value that images have
had as a means of stimulating the imagination and, I would argue, also
stimulating policy (and perhaps even some collaborative efforts).

Images of space travel, of course, were a powerful inducement for making
space exploration "appear real" as numerous scholars have pointed out while
I think it is fair to say that representations of "nano space" have had the
same effect more recently. As Roger notes, Leonardo itself appeared at the
apogee of human space flight, at least in the US, and I imagine it reflected
an optimistic idea about the 3rd culture that might emerge from the closer
union between artists and technologists.

I'm not sure this represents a true collaboration but this visual
representations have I'm sure, inspired some engineers/scientists and have
also certainly provided a useful venue for historians to explore. They are
also a valuable evidentiary source as we try to understand how people in the
past imagined the future.

Patrick

On 5/24/10 2:06 PM, "roger malina" <rmalina@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> jean baptiste
>
> thanks for your many thoughtful responses on our collaboration discussion
>
> you state:
>
>
> The engineering context of many historical art/sciences conferences
> and projects can be a political terrain and thus inform a specific
> discourse or mode of production. I am thinking here for instance of
> militaro-artistic collusion in the 50s and 60s in conferences, events
> and places such as Macy (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macy_conferences ), 69th Regiment Armory
> (E.A.T. http://www.9evenings.org/ ), Rand + Lacma (
> http://www.fondation-langlois.org/html/e/page.php?NumPage=706 ), JPL (
> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/ ) and CAVS ( http://cavs.mit.edu/ ).
>
>
> i want to pick up on your connected comment about including the
> humanities in this
> discussion about collaboration- as you mention IMERA is hosting residencies
> of artists and scholars in the humanities= patrick mccray
>
> http://www.history.ucsb.edu/people/person.php?account_id=14
>
> who is organising the imera workshop on collaboration is a historian of
> science, but he is particularly interested at the moment in how popular
> culture
> cross couples to the techno sciences:
>
> he says
>
> Currently, my work focuses on the the creation of a national research
> infrastructure (with Cyrus Mody and Hyungsub Choi) and the activities
> of various pro-technology futurist movements. This work, which is
> sponsored by the NSF, will be part of my next book project which
> explores the intersection of technology, culture, and political
> thought in American culture at the end of the 20th century.
>
> his comment above about pro-technology futurist movements connects to your
> comment about how EAT, CAVS, and indeed leonardo were created in a period
> of techno futurism/optimism= a period that dissipated very much in the
> 1970s partially as a cultural push back during the vietnam war when
> the military scientific industrial
> complex was seen as being allied to to the destructive forces at work=
> this period
> was of course also
>
> the art-science discussion sometimes doesnt bring in the humanities=
> which is a booming
> area with what are called now the digital humanities, and scholars in
> the humanities
> are key to understanding collaboration cultures and methodologies
>
> http://digitalhumanitiesnow.org/about/
>
> and see for instance the
> high throughput humanities conference
>
> http://hth.eccs2010.eu/
>
> collaboration cultures/methodologies vary within the areas of science,
> engineering,
> arts and humanities= and when collaborations occur between these areas the
> issues of underlying values -in in particular techno-philia vs techno-phonic
> outlooks need to be made explicit
>
> and there are very different regional differences ( cf the differing
> attitudes to
> genetically engineered foods in different countries, or the differing
> attitudes
> of different green movements to technological solutions )
>
> roger
>
>
> an other issue is the time allocated= most residencies are so short that they
> are barely enough for the collaborators to begin to explore the shared
> interests
>
>
> That's a crucial issue, usually related to the impossibility to build
> a "deliverable" that can be "monetized" and hence sustain a sabbatical
> for bot the artists and the scientists involved. In addition, and in
> relation with the topic of "Doing and Studying International
> Collaboration in the Sciences, Arts and the Humanities ", usually
> Humanists are missing from this equation and it is very agreable to
> see that IMERA for instance is hosting historians and philosophers :)
>
> Jean-Baptiste
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jean-Baptiste LABRUNE <labrune@media.mit.edu>
> Date: Thu, May 20, 2010 at 3:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] : International Collaboration in the
> Sciences and Humanities
>
>
>
> Jean-Baptiste
>
> --
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeanbaptisteparis/
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In
> the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
> password in the fields found further down the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your
> e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest
> Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

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[Yasmin_discussions] International Collaboration in the Sciences and Humanities

jean baptiste

thanks for your many thoughtful responses on our collaboration discussion

you state:

The engineering context of many historical art/sciences conferences
and projects can be a political terrain and thus inform a specific
discourse or mode of production. I am thinking here for instance of
militaro-artistic collusion in the 50s and 60s in conferences, events
and places such as Macy (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macy_conferences ), 69th Regiment Armory
(E.A.T. http://www.9evenings.org/ ), Rand + Lacma (
http://www.fondation-langlois.org/html/e/page.php?NumPage=706 ), JPL (
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/ ) and CAVS ( http://cavs.mit.edu/ ).

i want to pick up on your connected comment about including the
humanities in this
discussion about collaboration- as you mention IMERA is hosting residencies
of artists and scholars in the humanities= patrick mccray

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/people/person.php?account_id=14

who is organising the imera workshop on collaboration is a historian of
science, but he is particularly interested at the moment in how popular culture
cross couples to the techno sciences:

he says

Currently, my work focuses on the the creation of a national research
infrastructure (with Cyrus Mody and Hyungsub Choi) and the activities
of various pro-technology futurist movements. This work, which is
sponsored by the NSF, will be part of my next book project which
explores the intersection of technology, culture, and political
thought in American culture at the end of the 20th century.

his comment above about pro-technology futurist movements connects to your
comment about how EAT, CAVS, and indeed leonardo were created in a period
of techno futurism/optimism= a period that dissipated very much in the
1970s partially as a cultural push back during the vietnam war when
the military scientific industrial
complex was seen as being allied to to the destructive forces at work=
this period
was of course also

the art-science discussion sometimes doesnt bring in the humanities=
which is a booming
area with what are called now the digital humanities, and scholars in
the humanities
are key to understanding collaboration cultures and methodologies

http://digitalhumanitiesnow.org/about/

and see for instance the
high throughput humanities conference

http://hth.eccs2010.eu/

collaboration cultures/methodologies vary within the areas of science,
engineering,
arts and humanities= and when collaborations occur between these areas the
issues of underlying values -in in particular techno-philia vs techno-phonic
outlooks need to be made explicit

and there are very different regional differences ( cf the differing
attitudes to
genetically engineered foods in different countries, or the differing attitudes
of different green movements to technological solutions )

roger

an other issue is the time allocated= most residencies are so short that they
are barely enough for the collaborators to begin to explore the shared
interests

That's a crucial issue, usually related to the impossibility to build
a "deliverable" that can be "monetized" and hence sustain a sabbatical
for bot the artists and the scientists involved. In addition, and in
relation with the topic of "Doing and Studying International
Collaboration in the Sciences, Arts and the Humanities ", usually
Humanists are missing from this equation and it is very agreable to
see that IMERA for instance is hosting historians and philosophers :)

Jean-Baptiste

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jean-Baptiste LABRUNE <labrune@media.mit.edu>
Date: Thu, May 20, 2010 at 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] : International Collaboration in the
Sciences and Humanities

Jean-Baptiste

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeanbaptisteparis/
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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] : International Collaboration in the Sciences and Humanities

Dear Yasminers,

I am sorry for the delays in getting back to all of your comments/thoughts. So many things to say...

Artist and sponsoring:

I agree with Ana that artists are mostly "un-sponsored" and don't deal with commissions. In addition, many artists even refuse the possibility of being sponsored as it could lead to a reduction of their freedom and creativity.

This reminds me a controversial exhibition in London sponsored by a
mobile phone company, which I visited with some other visual artists (at that
time I was a practicing visual artist myself). I felt a lot of discomfort in
the sponsoring offered and I reacted quite negatively to the exhibition simply
because it felt that artists did not have a total freedom of expression: the
sponsor censored some part of the exhibition. One of the artists involved in the show
shared this information with me.

Wellcome Trust – Visualizations
of science:

Roger you wrote :" The Wellcome trust I heard was disappointed in many
of the art science

collaborations they funded because the results were illustration of
science rather than art science collaborations" I would be interested in knowing
more. Where did you read/hear about that?

I have seen exhibitions of arts and science, where actually "artists" are
just illustrating science or making a visualization of science. It is surely
disappointing and these visualizations are surely not the result of a fruitful collaboration!
I am even questioning if they can be called "art"…

Dissonancias:

Aranxta, you explained that you used "a game to swap roles between
artists and

managers/scientists". Could you tell us more about that game? Is it a
role play? Did you conceive this game? Did you use it for your first
collaboration or did you develop it because you noticed that there was a need
for it?

Two cultures:

I recommend these series of interviews called "Are we beyond the two
cultures? 50 years later". They are realized by SEEDMAGAZINE.

http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/are_we_beyond_the_two_cultures/

Knowledge production:

Jennifer, I was really interested in reading your vision about what makes
collaborations between artists and scientists successful and how the ultimate
goal of successful collaborations would be knowledge production. I do not know
what the percentage of collaborations between artists and scientists, which
produce knowledge, is, but I bet it is not very high. It seems to me to be quite
an ambitious task to aim for producing knowledge, even so it is undoubtedly a
sign of success.

In my opinion, a successful collaboration is when the expectations of
both sides (art and science) are met. [Of course, defining the expectations and
the aims of the collaboration are vital in order to produce a successful
collaboration.] Generating knowledge would be for me going beyond the
expectations and almost the icing on the cake (unless of course it was the aim
of the project from the starting point).

Geopolitical context
of collaboration between artists and scientists:

Roger, let me clarify what I mean by "the geopolitical contexts of collaborations
between artists and scientists". One of my hypotheses: depending on where the
collaboration is taking place, the framework of this collaboration might be shaped
by local policies. For example, in order to attract funding in one country,
there might be the case that a residency should last for a maximum of 6 months
whereas in another country, this would not apply. (Time of the residency is one
of the aspects of the collaboration's framework) This is of course a simple
example, but I think more complex issues arise from the geopolitical context of
the collaborations and influence the shaping of the framework chosen.

Thank you
very much for all your contributions! I am looking forward to hearing from all
of you.

Best
wishes,

Léa

Lea.guzzo [at] ymail.com

> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 19:39:48 +0200
> From: rmalina@alum.mit.edu
> To: Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] : International Collaboration in the Sciences and Humanities
>
> Lea
>
> you state
>
> Indeed I am currently undertaking an Mphil/PhD in Arts Management/policies at
> > Birkbeck (University of London ­ supervised by Dr. Cameron Cartiere, Dr.
> > Isabelle Fremeaux and Dr. Roger Malina) looking at the different models of
> > collaborations between visual artists and scientists in Europe. (Comparative
> > study ­ case studies)
> >
> > I am particularly interested in the geopolitical context of the
> > artist/scientist collaboration and its impact on the model itself. For example
> > how policies could shape the format of the residence/collaboration.
>
> lea guzzo
>
> >>>> i am really not sure what you mean by geopolitical
>
> One of the major issue for art science collaboration is how to set up
> situations where both the artist and scientist are equally engaged= most
> art science work occurs with artists residencies within science or engineering
> environments= very few occur with scientists residencies in cultural
> organisations=
> but some artists are very experienced in working in alien environments and have
> extensive experience working this way ( eg artists residencies in other public
> institutions like hospitals)= the Dissonancias residencies had some success
> with rather limited physical time between the artist and the researcher= but
> some of the most interesting collaborations are the ones that have evolved
> over a number of years
>
> an other issue is the time allocated= most residencies are so short that they
> are barely enough for the collaborators to begin to explore the shared
> interests=
> the uk art council "blue sky "residencies tried to allocate enough
> time and space
>
> i would be interested in hearing from you about two or three different models
> that you are studying as part of your phd research
>
> in the sciences some of the mechanisms used for provoking
> inter-disciplinary collaboration
> are the summer schools system= a google on "summer school sardinia"
> for instance gives a flavour=the advantage being that all the
> participants are outside their
> usual work environment
>
> there was a famous summer school in the art school in aix en provence
> called Art Cognition in 1992 or 1993 that brought together very diverse people
> and provoked a number of collaborations:
> http://www.culturecom.net/InTangible/ArtCog/cover.htm
>
> and of course the artificial life workshops at the santa fe
> institute,http://www.santafe.edu/,in the 1980s
> spawned a whole art science area:
> http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/bib/nf/l/langton.htm
>
> roger
>
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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] : International Collaboration in the Sciences and Humanities

On May 20, 2010, at 1:39 PM, roger malina wrote:

> Lea, you state
>
( ... )
>
>>>>> i am really not sure what you mean by geopolitical
>
> One of the major issue for art science collaboration is how to set up
> situations where both the artist and scientist are equally engaged
> = most
> art science work occurs with artists residencies within science or
> engineering
> environments= very few occur with scientists residencies in cultural
> organisations=

The engineering context of many historical art/sciences conferences
and projects can be a political terrain and thus inform a specific
discourse or mode of production. I am thinking here for instance of
militaro-artistic collusion in the 50s and 60s in conferences, events
and places such as Macy ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Macy_conferences ), 69th Regiment Armory (E.A.T. http://www.9evenings.org/
), Rand + Lacma ( http://www.fondation-langlois.org/html/e/page.php?NumPage=706
), JPL ( http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/ ) and CAVS ( http://cavs.mit.edu/ ).

In the case of CAVS - the one I know the most about - the geopolitical
questions where always in the background as in many other places at
the Institute, which one main source of funding has been defense
contracts since Vannevar Bush appointment in june 1940 ( cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vannevar_Bush
). And contrary to artists going to sci labs, CAVS was an artistic
place open to scientific students, professors and hackers. From Kepes
to Otto Piene, the center for AVS alternated conferences and more
practice based workshops where scientists had the opportunity to
inhabit an art center, hence developing a culture rich of discussions,
projects and performances. Very often, these experimental
collaborations could not be labeled and many big festival would not
know where to put these artefacts or practices defying the traditional
cultural organisation, production and recognition of art works.

> but some artists are very experienced in working in alien
> environments and have
> extensive experience working this way ( eg artists residencies in
> other public
> institutions like hospitals)= the Dissonancias residencies had some
> success
> with rather limited physical time between the artist and the
> researcher= but
> some of the most interesting collaborations are the ones that have
> evolved
> over a number of years

As a spin-off of these institutions, some places like the Judson ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judson_Dance_Theater
), and many other started to push away the idea of technology and
art as a figurative or decorative form and started to investigate new
forms of representation and discourse, certainly influenced by the
political and social context of these institutes. Yvonne Rainer, Joan
Joanas or Bread and Puppets in a different way, criticised technology
and power and experimented with performative and ubuesque styles of
representation. Artists in Businesses, Hospitals and other non-
standard performative and socially-acceptable places manifest again
and again the renewal of the forms of artistic production, mainly the
critique of the depiction or its caricature the construction of a
decorum.

>
> an other issue is the time allocated= most residencies are so short
> that they
> are barely enough for the collaborators to begin to explore the shared
> interests

That's a crucial issue, usually related to the impossibility to build
a "deliverable" that can be "monetized" and hence sustain a sabbatical
for bot the artists and the scientists involved. In addition, and in
relation with the topic of "Doing and Studying International
Collaboration in the Sciences, Arts and the Humanities ", usually
Humanists are missing from this equation and it is very agreable to
see that IMERA for instance is hosting historians and philosophers :)

> =
> the uk art council "blue sky "residencies tried to allocate enough
> time and space
>
> i would be interested in hearing from you about two or three
> different models
> that you are studying as part of your phd research
>
> in the sciences some of the mechanisms used for provoking
> inter-disciplinary collaboration
> are the summer schools system= a google on "summer school sardinia"
> for instance gives a flavour=the advantage being that all the
> participants are outside their
> usual work environment

the google model of patronage would certainly be an interesting
geopolitical question, or more interesting, if Facebook starts to fund
art and sciences collaboration :) In France, Cap Digital, one of the
main funder of art + technology projects (futur en seine) could be
also of interest for you since their governance is composed in part by
Lagardere, a geopolitical champion.

>
> there was a famous summer school in the art school in aix en provence
> called Art Cognition in 1992 or 1993 that brought together very
> diverse people
> and provoked a number of collaborations:
> http://www.culturecom.net/InTangible/ArtCog/cover.htm
>
> and of course the artificial life workshops at the santa fe
> institute,http://www.santafe.edu/,in the 1980s
> spawned a whole art science area:
> http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/bib/nf/l/langton.htm
>

Do you think of an archive or an exhibition that tried to give an
exhaustive list of these events since the 2nd world war ? Also,
related to that, do you know of any History of Art & Sciences or
Philosophy of Art & Sciences department that is dedicated to these
topics (and not only by one of them like aesthetics or STS programs) ?

> roger

Jean-Baptiste

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeanbaptisteparis/

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[Yasmin_discussions] : International Collaboration in the Sciences and Humanities

Lea

you state

Indeed I am currently undertaking an Mphil/PhD in Arts Management/policies at
> Birkbeck (University of London ­ supervised by Dr. Cameron Cartiere, Dr.
> Isabelle Fremeaux and Dr. Roger Malina) looking at the different models of
> collaborations between visual artists and scientists in Europe. (Comparative
> study ­ case studies)
>
> I am particularly interested in the geopolitical context of the
> artist/scientist collaboration and its impact on the model itself. For example
> how policies could shape the format of the residence/collaboration.

lea guzzo

>>>> i am really not sure what you mean by geopolitical

One of the major issue for art science collaboration is how to set up
situations where both the artist and scientist are equally engaged= most
art science work occurs with artists residencies within science or engineering
environments= very few occur with scientists residencies in cultural
organisations=
but some artists are very experienced in working in alien environments and have
extensive experience working this way ( eg artists residencies in other public
institutions like hospitals)= the Dissonancias residencies had some success
with rather limited physical time between the artist and the researcher= but
some of the most interesting collaborations are the ones that have evolved
over a number of years

an other issue is the time allocated= most residencies are so short that they
are barely enough for the collaborators to begin to explore the shared
interests=
the uk art council "blue sky "residencies tried to allocate enough
time and space

i would be interested in hearing from you about two or three different models
that you are studying as part of your phd research

in the sciences some of the mechanisms used for provoking
inter-disciplinary collaboration
are the summer schools system= a google on "summer school sardinia"
for instance gives a flavour=the advantage being that all the
participants are outside their
usual work environment

there was a famous summer school in the art school in aix en provence
called Art Cognition in 1992 or 1993 that brought together very diverse people
and provoked a number of collaborations:
http://www.culturecom.net/InTangible/ArtCog/cover.htm

and of course the artificial life workshops at the santa fe
institute,http://www.santafe.edu/,in the 1980s
spawned a whole art science area:
http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/bib/nf/l/langton.htm

roger

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[Yasmin_discussions] Doing and Studying International Collaboration in the Sciences, Arts and the Humanities

Ana Leonor

Well I walked into a trap by setting up false dichotomies between
artists and scientists and I am not able to defend myself against
your arguments= because I also over generalised !!

Both within the arts and humanities, and within the sciences and engineering
there are of course a whole spectrum of motivations, approaches and
relationships
to the "market" whether in arts or the corporate world in science.

I guess the point that I wanted to make , rather than defend the specifics,
is that people who work within disciplines in the arts and humanities,or
within the sciences and engineering it seems to me do have different kinds
of "cultures' of practice and that often these differences are implicit=and
because they are poorly understood or verbalised= many collaboration
between artists and scientists fail because of poor collaboration practice=

Elie During has written for example of the different role of the "prototype" in
the arts and in the sciences= both cultures use the same work but with
different meanings.

The Wellcome trust I heard was disappointed in many of the art science
collaborations they funded because the results were illustration
of science rather than art science collaborations.

arantxa mendiharat explains the interesting technique they used
for the artists in residence in the Dissonancias program and the new
Improbables program.

Arantxa states:

from disonancias and improbables (the new project we are just
starting), we think that it is very important at the beginning of the
collaboration that the 2 parts express their motivation to work
together. why are they in the project? what for?

we gather the diferent partners and we use different tools (a card
play by françois deck, a game to swap roles between artists and
managers/scientists, by aniabas, etc.) to make them express their deep
motivation and values to start the process from a clear basis.

it something quite simple but very effective to come over the cultural
and professional dissonances.

best,
arantxa mendiharat

I would be interested in other examples of how people involved in collaborations
that bridge the arts-humanities to the sciences-engineering have used techniques
to train people or prepare the collaborators for working together ?

Roger

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ana leonor rodrigues <analeonor.rodrigues@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, May 18, 2010 at 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Doing and Studying International
Collaboration in the Sciences, Arts and the Humanities
To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>

Dear Roger,
I was quite surprised by your opinion, and imagine that you look at
artists from the outside, and I explain why I say this:
The profession of the artist establishes itself outside and beyond the
markets and the artistic milieu, that is something that comes after
and it is important to have that in mind.
The profession of the artist is precisely what the root of the word
means, in the way that the being of the artist is totally devoted to
his/hers art in the way that it even surpasses the idea of profession
as it is not something that qualifies him extrinsically but
intrinsically.
Intellectual honesty and integrity are attributes of the human
character that show in the results of the work may it be scientific or
artistic, the deviations of those qualities exist, unfortunately both
in artists and in scientists and the resulting works suffer in both
fields.
Epistemic communism I have to say I do not know what it is, but then,
I'm an artist.
Organized skepticism and dis-interestedness… Well, I give you an
example that any art beginner knows, one cannot draw a nude model if
you are not able to look at it with the organized look of the
investigator and the dis-interestedness of the observer. At that
moment you are "eyes" (or visual cortex) seeing, understanding,
investigating shapes, shades, lights, shadows.
Impersonality, there I agree, the impersonal artist will be a being
without affection, and affection, in art more then anywhere else is a
working tool.
About universality, that is controversial again because you relate it
to context, and only minor works cannot overcome context, however, if
they achieve to move the sensibility and the mind of the spectator,
they do have the universal quality of the micro-cosmos.
It is indifferent if there is a sponsor in art, as the major quantity
of artists do not arrive at the possibility of being sponsored, but go
on working anyway.
It is a very western way of looking at artistic activity, sponsoring I
mean, as in the majority of places it is nor even considered as an
hypothesis.
I'd rather say that the working together of artist and scientists has
much more to do with the ability a both parts to be willing to accept
the possibility of the other: the mind of the other, the surprising
solutions or questions of the other (different from what I'm or the
other is used to), the different skills and the different methods.

-
Ana Leonor M. Madeira Rodrigues

2010/5/17, roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>:
> Yasminers
>
> For our collaboration topic, here is a underlying question: do artists
> and scientists share
> the same  cultures of inquiry ? Sundar Sarukkai in his article
> on Science and the Ethics of Curiosity which I have quoted several
> times on yasmin:
>
> http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/sep252009/756.pdf
>
> Points out that scientific curiosity is often framed within
> the following ethos:
>
> Intellectual Honesty, Integrity, Epistemic Communism
> Organized skepticism,Dis-interestedness
> Impersonality, Universality
>
> It seems to me that many artists do not share all these values,
> and that when artists and scientists seek to collaborate
> these cultural difference can create friction, sometimes productive
> sometimes not.
>
> in my talks i like to insist that artistic curiosity is often;
>
> non universal : a work can be loaded with meaning in one
> context and meaningless in another. There is a large discussion
> against "universals" in art. In science there is no concept of locally
> meaningful science.
>
> Impersonal: whereas scientists seek to remove the personality
> of the scientist from their work, artists often seem to ground the
> work in their embodied specificity.
>
> Disinterested: basic scientists like to have an intellectual distance
> between
> their work and the sponsor of their work (how succesful they are is another
> matter)
>
> Many artists work on commissions where indeed the work is intended to be
> situated within the framing of the institution or sponsor that funds the
> work.
> eg the Bilbau museum is inseparable as a building from the ethos of the
> Guggenheim Foundation. ( but of course scientists working on applications
> are sponsor contextualised)
>
> I know that I am over-generalising here, but there is much discussion
> about the need for a "third culture' that somehow melds the scientific
> and the artistic ( or even E O Wilson's concept of conscilience). I often
> get very uncomfortable with these discussions, because it seems to me
> there are valuable differences between the goals, values and methods
> of scientists
> and those of artists - and that often these implicit cultural
> differences between
> artists and scientists are not made explicit.
>
> There is a large literature in the business world on what are called
> strategic
> alliances= most collaborations between businesses fail, often because so
> many implicit values are not made explicit before a collaboration is
> entered into.
>
> In the case of art science collaborations, many of them fail to be
> successful
> from the point of view of one or  both the art and science participants.
>
> Roger
> _______________________________________________
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