Re: [Yasmin_discussions] ISEA feedback

Dear Ricardo,

You are raising an interesting issue.
>
> - I think the problem is not about developed or undeveloped countries.
>>From my opinion, the issue is What kind of definition are we using to
> describe this situation for these countries.

The international official definition is a pure economical
one and is based on the gross national product.

>
> - And here is the second point: Who or where this denominations are
> created from?.

International economical and state entities !

More and more people (including in the economical spheres)
start saying that it should also include : level of
education, pollution and environment measures, health, etc.

> Chile is a renown country for its economic success, a no violent
> change from dictatorship to Democracy, fiscal order, etc., and if you
> come to visit Chile (an ISEA in chile?) can find beautiful buildings,
> a world class metro, etc. But still we have big bags of poverty, big
> differences in the payment for a job, and few respect for the
> indigenous people.

Well, Chile is not the only state like that. Big epidemy of
tuberculosis in the near suburbs of Paris at the moment ....
The time when the rich countries were North and the poor
ones South, or when rich was Western + Japan and poor the
rest of the World is really gone. Globalisation is
reshuffling the cards and indeed we need other methods of
measurement to evaluate if a country is "developped",
"emerging", "underdevelopped" or ... just to invent another
concept as this one is just a total capitalistic one and
even with some make up, capitalism may just remains ...
capitalism.

And I would LOVE to have an ISEA in Chile !

I am not sure that this discussion is appropriate on this
list ... so I hope the moderators will approve my post.

Best
Annick

--

------------------------
Annick Bureaud (abureaud@gmail.com)
Leonardo/Olats : http://www.olats.org
Web : http://www.annickbureaud.net
Collectif Nunc : http://www.nunc.com
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[Yasmin_discussions] ISEA

Hi
there is a positive element in this ISEA i wanted to point out.
The division in many and parallel small rooms and small groups did seem to me at first rather negative.
Sort of privatization of the comunication.
Then i began to circle around, in a "peer to peer" movement in different panels and papers.
Then i made my own panel about "East&West", then chaired another on media and art and circled around a lot.
I had the feeling that this "smaller" groupings had a distinct character and an interesting one.
In a moment when media culture is getting inside taxonomies, cathegories, cataloguing etc....
it's refreshing to find ourselves in a direct confrontation and discussion, avoiding formal formulations and strict speeches.
The discussions following the talks were very informal, lively and did show a need to comunicate and exchange ideas more engaging than in other formal occasions.
So the small meetings came out as "conversation pieces" that encouraged partecipation and exchange, often brought well after the given times and showing how much need of talk and exchange there is today in media cuture.
Best & Ciao
Lorenzo Taiuti

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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] ISEA feedback

Hello
I was at la plissure du texte and it was great !
I think to have said it to you just after the presentation.
Hey ! Marseille is 2600 years !! Founded by the greeks !
And still so mediterranean city.
But maybe my english is not so good and the good word is another one than still, but maybe always , i don't know.
my meaning was about a continuous development.
But my feedback was very positive. about istanbul, and about ISEA
so let's talk on this way !
But Marseille will have to be at the top for the year of european capital of culture in 2013
we need some advices !
Thanks a lot
Colette
___________________________________________________________
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[Yasmin_discussions] ISEA

This has been an amazing discussion, and in a way it supports my paper's assertion that the distance between Turkey and North America (culturally) is large enough that many artists working in the other country often show cognitive dissonances or evidences of ontological shocks to the system.

I think that people have been nailing the issues really well, and in my working with Turkish artists extensively over the past couple years, and meeting Basak Senova three years ago, I went from absolute culture shock in living in the culture with few Westerners during a project in 2010 to ongoing pieces, currently "My Day/Your Night" facilitated by Morehshin Allyahri, which is an interpretive project where Persian and American artists operate through a Turkish interpreter to create bodies of work. Over these two years, I'me been studying Turkish Media Art, and Burak Arikan has been doing great work in cataloguing them.

What can be said about all this? There is a great interview with basak Senova in Ozkal/Pederson's book/social network project, "Gun" (Meaning day) that concisely maps out the landscape and differences with Turkish Digital Media. She outlines the idiosyncrasies of expression in Turkey, the cultural differences, and the access to technology, and that although there is a great diversity, that the same institutions keep hosing workshops and events, which seens like a frustration to her. I believe that the project will be available more widely as the initial edition was 100. I recommend it highly.

As for ISEA:
My perspective comes is bifurcated - as someone familiar with the Istanbul scene on a personal basis, and as someone who is a long-term ISEA attendee. In thsi sense, perhaps my perspective is just more pronounced, as it seems that attendees were torn between the city, the Bienalle, and the conference. I think that the conference at the Sabanci Center, as I never took the bus to the Communications Center, showed the challenges of istanbul aptly in being distributed and often not having enough room for the audience. However, I felt that the programming was very good, showing new trends in urbanism, locative media and AR, as well as wonderful panels of digital feminism, soundwalks, and a lot more.

As for myself, I spent some time visiting local universities and having conversations with artists in the local LGBT community, which was amazing. I hope to continue my agenda of promoting Turkish culture in the US through various projects, but at this point, I almost feel that this trip, as with allmy trips leave me so full, that it takes time to digest, and it often takes months.

Patrick Lichty
Asst. Professor
Dept of Interactive Arts & Media
Columbia College Chicago
916/1000 S. Wabash Ave #104
Chicago, IL USA
"Sometimes you do things not for the logic of them, but only for the fact that it is the right thing to do, and that is all."

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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] ISEA feedback

I fully agree with Ricardo. If you travel to rural areas in Spain, Greece
or Italy you find poverty, bad housing, unemployment, analfabetism.
In the US more than 60 million peopple live in poverty, inbreeding and no
hope for young people.
All is about how wealth is distributed. We live in a world ruled by wild
capitalism where profit is king and people expendable. Until we find a way
to humanize the economy all those concepts of developing and
underdevelopment are quite old fashioned.
Evo Morales, the Bolivian president, confronts now a severe backlash from
indigenous protesters against a highway to the Amazonien forest. Yes, it's
development, say the protesters, but a development with bad results, it will
destroy a protected part of ancestral landscape to make easier to
enterprises to deliver their products with more ease.
And will those enterprises create work and education for those indigenous?
No, and it's because the protesters paid with their bodies the prize of
their no.
Ana

On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 11:58 PM, Ricardo Vega (ricardov) <
rvegamora@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello, my name is Ricardo Vega, from Santiago de Chile.
> I was just walkin near by when I saw the discussion, and I want to add 2
> points:
>
> - I think the problem is not about developed or undeveloped countries.
> >From my opinion, the issue is What kind of definition are we using to
> describe this situation for these countries. Because now we call
> developed countries to those before mentioned as "The First World".
> Chile was considered of the "Third World", and now is a almost
> developed country (!).
>
> - And here is the second point: Who or where this denominations are
> created from?.
> Depending the conceptual model we use, is the result we have, and the
> point of view.
>
> Chile is a renown country for its economic success, a no violent
> change from dictatorship to Democracy, fiscal order, etc., and if you
> come to visit Chile (an ISEA in chile?) can find beautiful buildings,
> a world class metro, etc. But still we have big bags of poverty, big
> differences in the payment for a job, and few respect for the
> indigenous people.
>
> The democracy, the development and the benefits of a "modern" society
> not always has been distributed very well. There are layer of
> societies that have different levels of development, if we use this
> world. Inside one country, we can observe many different countries
> with different levels.
>
> So, the idea of "developed country" is a useful to all the cases?,
> There is another concepts to refer to an specific state of a nation?
> or do we need to build another new kind of framework to define this
> kind of situations?
> And sorry for my bad english.
> r
>
> PS: also the technology is not well distributed...
>
> R
>
> Ricardo Vega
> www.ricardov.cl
> www.artnumerica.net
> 08 191 5577, Santiago, Chile
>
>
>
> 2011/9/28 Tracey M Benson <bytetime@gmail.com>:
> > Hi Colette,
> >
> > My comment is not to say that Istanbul is not evolving still but rather
> that
> > the perception that it is backward and not forward thinking and moving.
> >
> > Apologies for any confusion - this is a very big topic for discussion and
> > perhaps my short post falls very short of expressing the complexity of
> > issues that could/should be explored (in terms of the evolution of any
> > place/city).
> >
> > Regards
> > Tracey
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 10:20 PM, c.tron@voila.fr <c.tron@voila.fr>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello all,
> >> I must say that I don't understand very well.
> >> If you don't want to ear "still in development", do you mean that the
> >> development of istanbul has stopped ?
> >> I am from Marseille, and it is in France, and it is a poor city, and it
> is
> >> still in development because the city is still in tranformation, moving,
> >> changing its image.
> >> And it is not the same situation than Istanbul
> >> And if you read to the turkish Nobel price of litterature Orhan Pamuk,
> you
> >> can understand how Turkey has changed since the Ottoman empire, and how
> it
> >> has fall down during the XXth century.
> >> Now, for him, and I think in many points of view, it is better, and we
> have
> >> to distinguish the current economy from the hundreds of centuries of
> culture
> >> of a country.
> >> I hope everybody had time to visit the fabulous historical sites in
> >> Istambul, and you can see the great Ottoman empire, and even the
> magnificent
> >> byzantine culture
> >> And it continues to grow, to exchange, to invent, to develop, Isn't it ?
> >> Colette
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > Message du 28/09/11 à 13h49
> >> > De : "Elif Ayiter"
> >> > A : "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS" , "Cynthia Beth Rubin"
> >> > Copie à :
> >> > Objet : Re: [Yasmin_discussions] ISEA feedback
> >> >
> >> > Cynthia, a heartfelt thank you for your correction, to which I will
> >> > add a few words, if you will allow me:
> >> >
> >> > Contrary to popular belief, what you call "newly engaging more
> >> > conversation with Western Europe/North America...", and what I
> >> > personally prefer to call the process of democratization and
> >> > secularization of the Ottoman Empire, did not start a decade ago or
> >> > indeed materialize overnight in 1923 with the founding of the Turkish
> >> > Republic, but has its origins in the first half of the 19th century,
> >> > starting with Sultan Mecid and his extensive legal and social reforms,
> >> > for which you can see the wikipedia entry here:
> >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzimat
> >> >
> >> > As for this city "still in development": Here, an estimated 3 million
> >> > people spend weekend nights in an area which is after all only a few
> >> > square miles wide. You have all been there, you have witnessed it with
> >> > your own eyes. Huge, indeed overwhelming crowds, and yet hardly ever a
> >> > fight, a brawl, an incident... And this despite some serious alcohol
> >> > consumption, I might add!
> >> >
> >> > In this city "still in development", instead of collecting them in
> >> > shelters and then heartlessly putting them down, the city
> >> > administration provides healthcare for its thousands of "city dogs"
> >> > which are taken care of, fed and sheltered by shop keepers and market
> >> > vendors throughout the city. Needless to even say, quite a big budget
> >> > is set aside in this city "still in development" for this task, since
> >> > the city provided animal healthcare includes a yearly booster shot for
> >> > rabies, which is checked through an RFID system implemented through
> >> > ear tags, with appended mobile veterinary teams etc...
> >> >
> >> > ;-)
> >> > elif
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue 27 Sep 2011 16:40:52 EEST, Cynthia Beth Rubin wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi Colette and All
> >> > >
> >> > > I have been part of a few discussions on ISEA2011 on other lists,
> >> > > and it is refreshing to read Colette's positive summary. It makes me
> >> > > wish that I had chosen what to attend more carefully - and i look
> >> > > forward to seeing more about these panels on line. So much to do in
> >> > > so many days - and the compression led to a certain overload at
> >> > > times, that I believe that some of the best discussions to come may
> >> > > take place in the post-isea blogosphere. I plan to create blog for
> >> > > the panel that i chaired, and which ended up being far too
> >> > > compressed for the open discussion that that we now envision. (an
> >> > > aside - we had a free google site for the panel that we had planned
> >> > > to make live after ISE but I discovered that google sites are
> >> > > blocked in Turkey, although most smart Turkish people get around
> >> > > this by putting in an IP address that is from another country)
> >> > >
> >> > > A small correction to your thoughtful post. Turkey is not "still in
> >> > > development" - it is rather newly engaging more conversation with
> >> > > Western Europe/North America. (by new I mean last decade, not just
> >> > > this year). Turkish culture is quite developed, and has been for
> >> > > centuries. I was surprised to find ISEA goers who did not
> >> > > know/remember that less than 100 years ago Istanbul was the center
> >> > > of a great Empire with influence that extended throughout Eastern
> >> > > Asia and the Middle East, and into Europe. Several Turkish artists
> >> > > that I spoke with found it distressing that those coming from the
> >> > > countries that are now in power think of Turkey as under-developed.
> >> > >
> >> > > best wishes,
> >> > > Cynthia
> >> > >
> >> > > Cynthia Beth Rubin
> >> > > http://CBRubin.net
> >> > >
> >> > > =========
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi everybody,
> >> > > I have participed to ISEA for the 3rd time (Nagoya, Singapore,
> >> > > Istanbul), and it is still a big event in many ways and not only in
> >> > > quantity but in the quality of programm and discussions. It is an
> >> > > amazing brainstorming where people from so many countries can
> >> > > exchange about so many medias and practices, and in addition get
> >> > > some thinking, theories, and perspectives about electronic and
> >> > > digital tools and culture.
> >> > > Some little things that I can say :
> >> > > - it was so important to cross electronic art (ISEA) and
> >> > > contemporary art (Istanbul biennal) in a place, it means in a city,
> >> > > and a city as Istanbul , that is still in development, and at the
> >> > > junction of Europe and Asia... Now we have to know where can be the
> >> > > junctions between these practices : are they so different, are they
> >> > > in the same fields, are they in different economies, how to think
> >> > > their environment, technics, modes of production and diffusion ? We
> >> > > can see that the exhibitions for the practices and conferences for
> >> > > the theory are still the way to present them. In which kind of
> >> > > public area, in which modes of knowledge and culture can we share
> >> > > our experiments and creation, thinking and theory ? Can it be a way
> >> > > to explore the future of isea ? Can it be a way to invent some new
> >> > > tools, new objects (as things), new spaces ? For example, I was very
> >> > > interested by the experimentation by the Collectif Nunc
> >> > > www.nunc.com to explore the rôle of the catalogue as a way of
> >> > > knowledge, and creation ; and it is only one example
> >> > >
> >> > > - I was very interesseted too by the Mediterranean forum on digital
> >> > > culture, and the links with the arabic revolution. It was such
> >> > > appropriate to speak about that in an other mediterranean country,
> >> > > and to learn about how people used the digital and global media in
> >> > > one part of the world, that could be seen as a local revolution, but
> >> > > concerning the total humanity. And also it would be great to follow
> >> > > the discussion, cause : the revolution is going on and needs to be
> >> > > thinked to be realized, and new models seem to be necessary to
> >> > > invent. But, in that way, it is not only a local problem, but a
> >> > > global, if we think to the difficulties that each country can have
> >> > > with the economic crise. New medias could help to these non
> >> > > institutionnal exchanges. And help to find ways to invent a virtual
> >> > > global public space
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > At the end I want to think all the people that organized this ISEA,
> >> > > and above all to think Baruch Gotlieb who was my panel chair about
> >> > > The persistence of hardware. I think we have open the beginning of a
> >> > > discussion about the electronic and digital environment that
> >> > > concern material, energy, production, economy, culture… that it
> >> > > would be important to follow and to developp cause it is a very
> >> > > crucial question in the use of these technology and its
> >> > > consequences, that is not so immaterial…
> >> > >
> >> > > Regards to all
> >> > > Colette Tron
> >> > > Marseille, France
> >> > > www.alphabetville.org
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> >> > > Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> >> > > http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> >> > >
> >> > > Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
> >> > >
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> > elif ayiter
> >> > Sabanci University
> >> > FASS VACD
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Yasmin_discussions mailing list
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> >> ___________________________________________________________
> >> Les images du Salon de l'auto de Francfort : les voitures écolos, les
> >> sportives, les hôtesses sont sur Voila.fr
> >> http://actu.voila.fr/evenementiel/salon-auto-francfort-2011/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr Tracey Meziane Benson (aka bytetime)
> > Adjunct Postdoctoral Fellow || The Australian National University ||
> School
> > of Music
> > Visiting Scholar || The Australian University || School of Cultural
> Inquiry
> > You can find *bytetime *on twitter, delicious, scribd, flickr, linkedin,
> > identica, slideshare and facebook.
> >
> > *websites:*
> > www.byte-time.net
> > www.xconnectmedia.com
> > www.fauxonomy.org
> > *blogs:*
> > geokult.wordpress.com/
> > dorkbotcbr.wordpress.com/
> > mediakult.wordpress.com/
> > *wiki:*
> > mediakult.wetpaint.com/
> > _______________________________________________
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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] ISEA feedback

Hello, my name is Ricardo Vega, from Santiago de Chile.
I was just walkin near by when I saw the discussion, and I want to add 2 points:

- I think the problem is not about developed or undeveloped countries.
>From my opinion, the issue is What kind of definition are we using to
describe this situation for these countries. Because now we call
developed countries to those before mentioned as "The First World".
Chile was considered of the "Third World", and now is a almost
developed country (!).

- And here is the second point: Who or where this denominations are
created from?.
Depending the conceptual model we use, is the result we have, and the
point of view.

Chile is a renown country for its economic success, a no violent
change from dictatorship to Democracy, fiscal order, etc., and if you
come to visit Chile (an ISEA in chile?) can find beautiful buildings,
a world class metro, etc. But still we have big bags of poverty, big
differences in the payment for a job, and few respect for the
indigenous people.

The democracy, the development and the benefits of a "modern" society
not always has been distributed very well. There are layer of
societies that have different levels of development, if we use this
world. Inside one country, we can observe many different countries
with different levels.

So, the idea of "developed country" is a useful to all the cases?,
There is another concepts to refer to an specific state of a nation?
or do we need to build another new kind of framework to define this
kind of situations?
And sorry for my bad english.
r

PS: also the technology is not well distributed...

R

Ricardo Vega
www.ricardov.cl
www.artnumerica.net
08 191 5577, Santiago, Chile

2011/9/28 Tracey M Benson <bytetime@gmail.com>:
> Hi Colette,
>
> My comment is not to say that Istanbul is not evolving still but rather that
> the perception that it is backward and not forward thinking and moving.
>
> Apologies for any confusion - this is a very big topic for discussion and
> perhaps my short post falls very short of expressing the complexity of
> issues that could/should be explored (in terms of the evolution of any
> place/city).
>
> Regards
> Tracey
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 10:20 PM, c.tron@voila.fr <c.tron@voila.fr> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>> I must say that I don't understand very well.
>> If you don't want to ear "still in development", do you mean that the
>> development of istanbul has stopped ?
>> I am from Marseille, and it is in France, and it is a poor city, and it is
>> still in development because the city is still in tranformation, moving,
>> changing its image.
>> And it is not the same situation than Istanbul
>> And if you read to the turkish Nobel price of litterature Orhan Pamuk, you
>> can understand how Turkey has changed since the Ottoman empire, and how it
>> has fall down during the XXth century.
>> Now, for him, and I think in many points of view, it is better, and we have
>> to distinguish the current economy from the hundreds of centuries of culture
>> of a country.
>> I hope everybody had time to visit the fabulous historical sites in
>> Istambul, and you can see the great Ottoman empire, and even the magnificent
>> byzantine culture
>> And it continues to grow, to exchange, to invent, to develop, Isn't it ?
>> Colette
>>
>>
>>
>> > Message du 28/09/11 à 13h49
>> > De : "Elif Ayiter"
>> > A : "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS" , "Cynthia Beth Rubin"
>> > Copie à :
>> > Objet : Re: [Yasmin_discussions] ISEA feedback
>> >
>> > Cynthia, a heartfelt thank you for your correction, to which I will
>> > add a few words, if you will allow me:
>> >
>> > Contrary to popular belief, what you call "newly engaging more
>> > conversation with Western Europe/North America...", and what I
>> > personally prefer to call the process of democratization and
>> > secularization of the Ottoman Empire, did not start a decade ago or
>> > indeed materialize overnight in 1923 with the founding of the Turkish
>> > Republic, but has its origins in the first half of the 19th century,
>> > starting with Sultan Mecid and his extensive legal and social reforms,
>> > for which you can see the wikipedia entry here:
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzimat
>> >
>> > As for this city "still in development": Here, an estimated 3 million
>> > people spend weekend nights in an area which is after all only a few
>> > square miles wide. You have all been there, you have witnessed it with
>> > your own eyes. Huge, indeed overwhelming crowds, and yet hardly ever a
>> > fight, a brawl, an incident... And this despite some serious alcohol
>> > consumption, I might add!
>> >
>> > In this city "still in development", instead of collecting them in
>> > shelters and then heartlessly putting them down, the city
>> > administration provides healthcare for its thousands of "city dogs"
>> > which are taken care of, fed and sheltered by shop keepers and market
>> > vendors throughout the city. Needless to even say, quite a big budget
>> > is set aside in this city "still in development" for this task, since
>> > the city provided animal healthcare includes a yearly booster shot for
>> > rabies, which is checked through an RFID system implemented through
>> > ear tags, with appended mobile veterinary teams etc...
>> >
>> > ;-)
>> > elif
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue 27 Sep 2011 16:40:52 EEST, Cynthia Beth Rubin wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi Colette and All
>> > >
>> > > I have been part of a few discussions on ISEA2011 on other lists,
>> > > and it is refreshing to read Colette's positive summary. It makes me
>> > > wish that I had chosen what to attend more carefully - and i look
>> > > forward to seeing more about these panels on line. So much to do in
>> > > so many days - and the compression led to a certain overload at
>> > > times, that I believe that some of the best discussions to come may
>> > > take place in the post-isea blogosphere. I plan to create blog for
>> > > the panel that i chaired, and which ended up being far too
>> > > compressed for the open discussion that that we now envision. (an
>> > > aside - we had a free google site for the panel that we had planned
>> > > to make live after ISE but I discovered that google sites are
>> > > blocked in Turkey, although most smart Turkish people get around
>> > > this by putting in an IP address that is from another country)
>> > >
>> > > A small correction to your thoughtful post. Turkey is not "still in
>> > > development" - it is rather newly engaging more conversation with
>> > > Western Europe/North America. (by new I mean last decade, not just
>> > > this year). Turkish culture is quite developed, and has been for
>> > > centuries. I was surprised to find ISEA goers who did not
>> > > know/remember that less than 100 years ago Istanbul was the center
>> > > of a great Empire with influence that extended throughout Eastern
>> > > Asia and the Middle East, and into Europe. Several Turkish artists
>> > > that I spoke with found it distressing that those coming from the
>> > > countries that are now in power think of Turkey as under-developed.
>> > >
>> > > best wishes,
>> > > Cynthia
>> > >
>> > > Cynthia Beth Rubin
>> > > http://CBRubin.net
>> > >
>> > > =========
>> > >
>> > > Hi everybody,
>> > > I have participed to ISEA for the 3rd time (Nagoya, Singapore,
>> > > Istanbul), and it is still a big event in many ways and not only in
>> > > quantity but in the quality of programm and discussions. It is an
>> > > amazing brainstorming where people from so many countries can
>> > > exchange about so many medias and practices, and in addition get
>> > > some thinking, theories, and perspectives about electronic and
>> > > digital tools and culture.
>> > > Some little things that I can say :
>> > > - it was so important to cross electronic art (ISEA) and
>> > > contemporary art (Istanbul biennal) in a place, it means in a city,
>> > > and a city as Istanbul , that is still in development, and at the
>> > > junction of Europe and Asia... Now we have to know where can be the
>> > > junctions between these practices : are they so different, are they
>> > > in the same fields, are they in different economies, how to think
>> > > their environment, technics, modes of production and diffusion ? We
>> > > can see that the exhibitions for the practices and conferences for
>> > > the theory are still the way to present them. In which kind of
>> > > public area, in which modes of knowledge and culture can we share
>> > > our experiments and creation, thinking and theory ? Can it be a way
>> > > to explore the future of isea ? Can it be a way to invent some new
>> > > tools, new objects (as things), new spaces ? For example, I was very
>> > > interested by the experimentation by the Collectif Nunc
>> > > www.nunc.com to explore the rôle of the catalogue as a way of
>> > > knowledge, and creation ; and it is only one example
>> > >
>> > > - I was very interesseted too by the Mediterranean forum on digital
>> > > culture, and the links with the arabic revolution. It was such
>> > > appropriate to speak about that in an other mediterranean country,
>> > > and to learn about how people used the digital and global media in
>> > > one part of the world, that could be seen as a local revolution, but
>> > > concerning the total humanity. And also it would be great to follow
>> > > the discussion, cause : the revolution is going on and needs to be
>> > > thinked to be realized, and new models seem to be necessary to
>> > > invent. But, in that way, it is not only a local problem, but a
>> > > global, if we think to the difficulties that each country can have
>> > > with the economic crise. New medias could help to these non
>> > > institutionnal exchanges. And help to find ways to invent a virtual
>> > > global public space
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > At the end I want to think all the people that organized this ISEA,
>> > > and above all to think Baruch Gotlieb who was my panel chair about
>> > > The persistence of hardware. I think we have open the beginning of a
>> > > discussion about the electronic and digital environment that
>> > > concern material, energy, production, economy, culture… that it
>> > > would be important to follow and to developp cause it is a very
>> > > crucial question in the use of these technology and its
>> > > consequences, that is not so immaterial…
>> > >
>> > > Regards to all
>> > > Colette Tron
>> > > Marseille, France
>> > > www.alphabetville.org
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> > > Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> > > http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>> > >
>> > > Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>> > >
>> > > HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
>> > > subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter
>> > > e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down
>> > > the page.
>> > > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
>> > > enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
>> > > asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear
>> > > ("options page").
>> > > HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
>> > > "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > elif ayiter
>> > Sabanci University
>> > FASS VACD
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> > Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> > http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>> >
>> > Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>> >
>> > HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to.
>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
>> password in the fields found further down the page.
>> > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
>> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
>> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>> > HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
>> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>> Les images du Salon de l'auto de Francfort  : les voitures écolos, les
>> sportives, les hôtesses sont sur Voila.fr
>> http://actu.voila.fr/evenementiel/salon-auto-francfort-2011/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>
>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>
>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to.
>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
>> password in the fields found further down the page.
>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
>> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
>> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
>> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr Tracey Meziane Benson (aka bytetime)
> Adjunct Postdoctoral Fellow || The Australian National University || School
> of Music
> Visiting Scholar || The Australian University || School of Cultural Inquiry
> You can find *bytetime *on twitter, delicious, scribd, flickr, linkedin,
> identica, slideshare and facebook.
>
> *websites:*
> www.byte-time.net
> www.xconnectmedia.com
> www.fauxonomy.org
> *blogs:*
> geokult.wordpress.com/
> dorkbotcbr.wordpress.com/
> mediakult.wordpress.com/
> *wiki:*
> mediakult.wetpaint.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
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>

_______________________________________________
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[Yasmin_discussions] ISEA feedback

Colette

Thank you for this clarification. We are so used to hearing the term "undeveloped" to refer to countries that not technologically developed that it was easy to read the phrase "still in development" in that light.

The emergence of a new and expanded art and cultural scene is indeed worth noting. I lived in Marseilles in the days before important initiatives such as "la Friche" <http://www.lafriche.org>, and we all know that in Istanbul the opening of the Istanbul Modern and the Biennial have reinforced the development of a more lively scene.

Cities which appear to have developed art scenes, however, also need important shifts to keep them from stagnation. This is the excitement and tension of art - how to keep it from becoming too mainstream and stuck in conventions, while still getting it the attention it needs to be part of the cultural dialogue.

Cynthia

On Sep 28, 2011, at 8:20 AM, c.tron@voila.fr wrote:

Hello all,
I must say that I don't understand very well.
If you don't want to ear "still in development", do you mean that the development of istanbul has stopped ?
I am from Marseille, and it is in France, and it is a poor city, and it is still in development because the city is still in tranformation, moving, changing its image.
And it is not the same situation than Istanbul
And if you read to the turkish Nobel price of litterature Orhan Pamuk, you can understand how Turkey has changed since the Ottoman empire, and how it has fall down during the XXth century.
Now, for him, and I think in many points of view, it is better, and we have to distinguish the current economy from the hundreds of centuries of culture of a country.
I hope everybody had time to visit the fabulous historical sites in Istambul, and you can see the great Ottoman empire, and even the magnificent byzantine culture
And it continues to grow, to exchange, to invent, to develop, Isn't it ?
Colette

_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions

Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] ISEA feedback

Hi Colette,

My comment is not to say that Istanbul is not evolving still but rather that
the perception that it is backward and not forward thinking and moving.

Apologies for any confusion - this is a very big topic for discussion and
perhaps my short post falls very short of expressing the complexity of
issues that could/should be explored (in terms of the evolution of any
place/city).

Regards
Tracey

On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 10:20 PM, c.tron@voila.fr <c.tron@voila.fr> wrote:

> Hello all,
> I must say that I don't understand very well.
> If you don't want to ear "still in development", do you mean that the
> development of istanbul has stopped ?
> I am from Marseille, and it is in France, and it is a poor city, and it is
> still in development because the city is still in tranformation, moving,
> changing its image.
> And it is not the same situation than Istanbul
> And if you read to the turkish Nobel price of litterature Orhan Pamuk, you
> can understand how Turkey has changed since the Ottoman empire, and how it
> has fall down during the XXth century.
> Now, for him, and I think in many points of view, it is better, and we have
> to distinguish the current economy from the hundreds of centuries of culture
> of a country.
> I hope everybody had time to visit the fabulous historical sites in
> Istambul, and you can see the great Ottoman empire, and even the magnificent
> byzantine culture
> And it continues to grow, to exchange, to invent, to develop, Isn't it ?
> Colette
>
>
>
> > Message du 28/09/11 à 13h49
> > De : "Elif Ayiter"
> > A : "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS" , "Cynthia Beth Rubin"
> > Copie à :
> > Objet : Re: [Yasmin_discussions] ISEA feedback
> >
> > Cynthia, a heartfelt thank you for your correction, to which I will
> > add a few words, if you will allow me:
> >
> > Contrary to popular belief, what you call "newly engaging more
> > conversation with Western Europe/North America...", and what I
> > personally prefer to call the process of democratization and
> > secularization of the Ottoman Empire, did not start a decade ago or
> > indeed materialize overnight in 1923 with the founding of the Turkish
> > Republic, but has its origins in the first half of the 19th century,
> > starting with Sultan Mecid and his extensive legal and social reforms,
> > for which you can see the wikipedia entry here:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzimat
> >
> > As for this city "still in development": Here, an estimated 3 million
> > people spend weekend nights in an area which is after all only a few
> > square miles wide. You have all been there, you have witnessed it with
> > your own eyes. Huge, indeed overwhelming crowds, and yet hardly ever a
> > fight, a brawl, an incident... And this despite some serious alcohol
> > consumption, I might add!
> >
> > In this city "still in development", instead of collecting them in
> > shelters and then heartlessly putting them down, the city
> > administration provides healthcare for its thousands of "city dogs"
> > which are taken care of, fed and sheltered by shop keepers and market
> > vendors throughout the city. Needless to even say, quite a big budget
> > is set aside in this city "still in development" for this task, since
> > the city provided animal healthcare includes a yearly booster shot for
> > rabies, which is checked through an RFID system implemented through
> > ear tags, with appended mobile veterinary teams etc...
> >
> > ;-)
> > elif
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue 27 Sep 2011 16:40:52 EEST, Cynthia Beth Rubin wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Colette and All
> > >
> > > I have been part of a few discussions on ISEA2011 on other lists,
> > > and it is refreshing to read Colette's positive summary. It makes me
> > > wish that I had chosen what to attend more carefully - and i look
> > > forward to seeing more about these panels on line. So much to do in
> > > so many days - and the compression led to a certain overload at
> > > times, that I believe that some of the best discussions to come may
> > > take place in the post-isea blogosphere. I plan to create blog for
> > > the panel that i chaired, and which ended up being far too
> > > compressed for the open discussion that that we now envision. (an
> > > aside - we had a free google site for the panel that we had planned
> > > to make live after ISE but I discovered that google sites are
> > > blocked in Turkey, although most smart Turkish people get around
> > > this by putting in an IP address that is from another country)
> > >
> > > A small correction to your thoughtful post. Turkey is not "still in
> > > development" - it is rather newly engaging more conversation with
> > > Western Europe/North America. (by new I mean last decade, not just
> > > this year). Turkish culture is quite developed, and has been for
> > > centuries. I was surprised to find ISEA goers who did not
> > > know/remember that less than 100 years ago Istanbul was the center
> > > of a great Empire with influence that extended throughout Eastern
> > > Asia and the Middle East, and into Europe. Several Turkish artists
> > > that I spoke with found it distressing that those coming from the
> > > countries that are now in power think of Turkey as under-developed.
> > >
> > > best wishes,
> > > Cynthia
> > >
> > > Cynthia Beth Rubin
> > > http://CBRubin.net
> > >
> > > =========
> > >
> > > Hi everybody,
> > > I have participed to ISEA for the 3rd time (Nagoya, Singapore,
> > > Istanbul), and it is still a big event in many ways and not only in
> > > quantity but in the quality of programm and discussions. It is an
> > > amazing brainstorming where people from so many countries can
> > > exchange about so many medias and practices, and in addition get
> > > some thinking, theories, and perspectives about electronic and
> > > digital tools and culture.
> > > Some little things that I can say :
> > > - it was so important to cross electronic art (ISEA) and
> > > contemporary art (Istanbul biennal) in a place, it means in a city,
> > > and a city as Istanbul , that is still in development, and at the
> > > junction of Europe and Asia... Now we have to know where can be the
> > > junctions between these practices : are they so different, are they
> > > in the same fields, are they in different economies, how to think
> > > their environment, technics, modes of production and diffusion ? We
> > > can see that the exhibitions for the practices and conferences for
> > > the theory are still the way to present them. In which kind of
> > > public area, in which modes of knowledge and culture can we share
> > > our experiments and creation, thinking and theory ? Can it be a way
> > > to explore the future of isea ? Can it be a way to invent some new
> > > tools, new objects (as things), new spaces ? For example, I was very
> > > interested by the experimentation by the Collectif Nunc
> > > www.nunc.com to explore the rôle of the catalogue as a way of
> > > knowledge, and creation ; and it is only one example
> > >
> > > - I was very interesseted too by the Mediterranean forum on digital
> > > culture, and the links with the arabic revolution. It was such
> > > appropriate to speak about that in an other mediterranean country,
> > > and to learn about how people used the digital and global media in
> > > one part of the world, that could be seen as a local revolution, but
> > > concerning the total humanity. And also it would be great to follow
> > > the discussion, cause : the revolution is going on and needs to be
> > > thinked to be realized, and new models seem to be necessary to
> > > invent. But, in that way, it is not only a local problem, but a
> > > global, if we think to the difficulties that each country can have
> > > with the economic crise. New medias could help to these non
> > > institutionnal exchanges. And help to find ways to invent a virtual
> > > global public space
> > >
> > >
> > > At the end I want to think all the people that organized this ISEA,
> > > and above all to think Baruch Gotlieb who was my panel chair about
> > > The persistence of hardware. I think we have open the beginning of a
> > > discussion about the electronic and digital environment that
> > > concern material, energy, production, economy, culture… that it
> > > would be important to follow and to developp cause it is a very
> > > crucial question in the use of these technology and its
> > > consequences, that is not so immaterial…
> > >
> > > Regards to all
> > > Colette Tron
> > > Marseille, France
> > > www.alphabetville.org
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> > > Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> > > http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> > >
> > > Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
> > >
> > > HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
> > > subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter
> > > e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down
> > > the page.
> > > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> > > enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
> > > asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear
> > > ("options page").
> > > HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> > > "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
> >
> >
> >
> > elif ayiter
> > Sabanci University
> > FASS VACD
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> > Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> > http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> >
> > Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
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> ___________________________________________________________
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> sportives, les hôtesses sont sur Voila.fr
> http://actu.voila.fr/evenementiel/salon-auto-francfort-2011/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
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--
Dr Tracey Meziane Benson (aka bytetime)
Adjunct Postdoctoral Fellow || The Australian National University || School
of Music
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You can find *bytetime *on twitter, delicious, scribd, flickr, linkedin,
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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] ISEA feedback

Hello again (and sorry about multiple postings),
I just read Annick's very nice post (thank you Annick!) and it has
made me want to add something to what I previously wrote. Yes, true,
Istanbul has a strong and active electronic art scene as well as a
long established plastic arts scene. I could have given these as an
example for "development". Or I could have boasted about the numerous
Jazz and Film Festivals which the city hosts throughout the year. Or
talked about the "opera for everyone" festival where operas are
performed during the summer months in all of the city parks - entrance
free. Or the millions of tulips put in the ground every year for the
tulip week which has been celebrated around here since the 16th
century...

And yes, I could also have talked about the local history of
urbanization which goes back for millenia. Istanbul is one of the
oldest cities on the globe. True enough, we Turks have been around in
Istanbul for only 500 years ;-), however we are all of us well aware
that we stand upon the shoulders of a vast tradition which goes back
all the way to the neolithic period.

However, none of these, for me, are indicators of "development" that
are as potent as the peaceful crowds around Taksim and the happy fat
pooches are. Which is why I gave them as examples, regardless of how
appropriate it might have been to do so in what is an art and
technology mailing list after all.

Oh and - there was one Turkish artist at ISEA this year - me :-D. I am
one of the co-authors of La Plissure du Texte 2 which is still being
shown at KASA Gallery:
http://lpdt2.blogspot.com/
Needless to say, being the sequel to Roy Ascott's major work from
1983, LPDT2 is not even remotely of Turkish origin. However, that
firmly said, one of her co-authors is Turkish nonetheless...
all the best,
elif

On Wed 28 Sep 2011 13:03:23 EEST, Elif Ayiter wrote:

> Cynthia, a heartfelt thank you for your correction, to which I will add
> a few words, if you will allow me:
>
> Contrary to popular belief, what you call "newly engaging more
> conversation with Western Europe/North America...", and what I
> personally prefer to call the process of democratization and
> secularization of the Ottoman Empire, did not start a decade ago or
> indeed materialize overnight in 1923 with the founding of the Turkish
> Republic, but has its origins in the first half of the 19th century,
> starting with Sultan Mecid and his extensive legal and social reforms,
> for which you can see the wikipedia entry here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzimat
>
> As for this city "still in development": Here, an estimated 3 million
> people spend weekend nights in an area which is after all only a few
> square miles wide. You have all been there, you have witnessed it with
> your own eyes. Huge, indeed overwhelming crowds, and yet hardly ever a
> fight, a brawl, an incident... And this despite some serious alcohol
> consumption, I might add!
>
> In this city "still in development", instead of collecting them in
> shelters and then heartlessly putting them down, the city
> administration provides healthcare for its thousands of "city dogs"
> which are taken care of, fed and sheltered by shop keepers and market
> vendors throughout the city. Needless to even say, quite a big budget
> is set aside in this city "still in development" for this task, since
> the city provided animal healthcare includes a yearly booster shot for
> rabies, which is checked through an RFID system implemented through ear
> tags, with appended mobile veterinary teams etc...
>
> ;-)
> elif
>
>
>
>
> On Tue 27 Sep 2011 16:40:52 EEST, Cynthia Beth Rubin wrote:
>
>> Hi Colette and All
>>
>> I have been part of a few discussions on ISEA2011 on other lists,
>> and it is refreshing to read Colette's positive summary. It makes
>> me wish that I had chosen what to attend more carefully - and i
>> look forward to seeing more about these panels on line. So much to
>> do in so many days - and the compression led to a certain
>> overload at times, that I believe that some of the best
>> discussions to come may take place in the post-isea blogosphere.
>> I plan to create blog for the panel that i chaired, and which
>> ended up being far too compressed for the open discussion that
>> that we now envision. (an aside - we had a free google site for
>> the panel that we had planned to make live after ISE but I
>> discovered that google sites are blocked in Turkey, although most
>> smart Turkish people get around this by putting in an IP address
>> that is from another country)
>>
>> A small correction to your thoughtful post. Turkey is not "still in
>> development" - it is rather newly engaging more conversation with
>> Western Europe/North America. (by new I mean last decade, not
>> just this year). Turkish culture is quite developed, and has been
>> for centuries. I was surprised to find ISEA goers who did not
>> know/remember that less than 100 years ago Istanbul was the center
>> of a great Empire with influence that extended throughout Eastern
>> Asia and the Middle East, and into Europe. Several Turkish artists
>> that I spoke with found it distressing that those coming from the
>> countries that are now in power think of Turkey as under-developed.
>>
>> best wishes,
>> Cynthia
>>
>> Cynthia Beth Rubin
>> http://CBRubin.net
>>
>> =========
>>
>> Hi everybody,
>> I have participed to ISEA for the 3rd time (Nagoya, Singapore,
>> Istanbul), and it is still a big event in many ways and not only in
>> quantity but in the quality of programm and discussions. It is an
>> amazing brainstorming where people from so many countries can
>> exchange about so many medias and practices, and in addition get
>> some thinking, theories, and perspectives about electronic and
>> digital tools and culture.
>> Some little things that I can say :
>> - it was so important to cross electronic art (ISEA) and
>> contemporary art (Istanbul biennal) in a place, it means in a city,
>> and a city as Istanbul , that is still in development, and at the
>> junction of Europe and Asia... Now we have to know where can be
>> the junctions between these practices : are they so different,
>> are they in the same fields, are they in different economies, how
>> to think their environment, technics, modes of production and
>> diffusion ? We can see that the exhibitions for the practices and
>> conferences for the theory are still the way to present them. In
>> which kind of public area, in which modes of knowledge and culture
>> can we share our experiments and creation, thinking and theory ?
>> Can it be a way to explore the future of isea ? Can it be a way to
>> invent some new tools, new objects (as things), new spaces ? For
>> example, I was very interested by the experimentation by the
>> Collectif Nunc www.nunc.com to explore the rôle of the catalogue
>> as a way of knowledge, and creation ; and it is only one example
>>
>> - I was very interesseted too by the Mediterranean forum on digital
>> culture, and the links with the arabic revolution. It was such
>> appropriate to speak about that in an other mediterranean country,
>> and to learn about how people used the digital and global media in
>> one part of the world, that could be seen as a local revolution,
>> but concerning the total humanity. And also it would be great to
>> follow the discussion, cause : the revolution is going on and
>> needs to be thinked to be realized, and new models seem to be
>> necessary to invent. But, in that way, it is not only a local
>> problem, but a global, if we think to the difficulties that each
>> country can have with the economic crise. New medias could help to
>> these non institutionnal exchanges. And help to find ways to
>> invent a virtual global public space
>>
>>
>> At the end I want to think all the people that organized this ISEA,
>> and above all to think Baruch Gotlieb who was my panel chair
>> about The persistence of hardware. I think we have open the
>> beginning of a discussion about the electronic and digital
>> environment that concern material, energy, production, economy,
>> culture… that it would be important to follow and to developp
>> cause it is a very crucial question in the use of these
>> technology and its consequences, that is not so immaterial…
>>
>> Regards to all
>> Colette Tron
>> Marseille, France
>> www.alphabetville.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>
>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>
>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
>> subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter
>> e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down
>> the page.
>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
>> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
>> asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear
>> ("options page").
>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
>> "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>
>
>
> elif ayiter
> Sabanci University
> FASS VACD
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
> to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
> name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click
> on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

elif ayiter
Sabanci University
FASS VACD

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Re: [Yasmin_discussions] ISEA feedback

Hello all,
I must say that I don't understand very well.
If you don't want to ear "still in development", do you mean that the development of istanbul has stopped ?
I am from Marseille, and it is in France, and it is a poor city, and it is still in development because the city is still in tranformation, moving, changing its image.
And it is not the same situation than Istanbul
And if you read to the turkish Nobel price of litterature Orhan Pamuk, you can understand how Turkey has changed since the Ottoman empire, and how it has fall down during the XXth century.
Now, for him, and I think in many points of view, it is better, and we have to distinguish the current economy from the hundreds of centuries of culture of a country.
I hope everybody had time to visit the fabulous historical sites in Istambul, and you can see the great Ottoman empire, and even the magnificent byzantine culture
And it continues to grow, to exchange, to invent, to develop, Isn't it ?
Colette

> Message du 28/09/11 à 13h49
> De : "Elif Ayiter"
> A : "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS" , "Cynthia Beth Rubin"
> Copie à :
> Objet : Re: [Yasmin_discussions] ISEA feedback
>
> Cynthia, a heartfelt thank you for your correction, to which I will
> add a few words, if you will allow me:
>
> Contrary to popular belief, what you call "newly engaging more
> conversation with Western Europe/North America...", and what I
> personally prefer to call the process of democratization and
> secularization of the Ottoman Empire, did not start a decade ago or
> indeed materialize overnight in 1923 with the founding of the Turkish
> Republic, but has its origins in the first half of the 19th century,
> starting with Sultan Mecid and his extensive legal and social reforms,
> for which you can see the wikipedia entry here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzimat
>
> As for this city "still in development": Here, an estimated 3 million
> people spend weekend nights in an area which is after all only a few
> square miles wide. You have all been there, you have witnessed it with
> your own eyes. Huge, indeed overwhelming crowds, and yet hardly ever a
> fight, a brawl, an incident... And this despite some serious alcohol
> consumption, I might add!
>
> In this city "still in development", instead of collecting them in
> shelters and then heartlessly putting them down, the city
> administration provides healthcare for its thousands of "city dogs"
> which are taken care of, fed and sheltered by shop keepers and market
> vendors throughout the city. Needless to even say, quite a big budget
> is set aside in this city "still in development" for this task, since
> the city provided animal healthcare includes a yearly booster shot for
> rabies, which is checked through an RFID system implemented through
> ear tags, with appended mobile veterinary teams etc...
>
> ;-)
> elif
>
>
>
>
> On Tue 27 Sep 2011 16:40:52 EEST, Cynthia Beth Rubin wrote:
>
> > Hi Colette and All
> >
> > I have been part of a few discussions on ISEA2011 on other lists,
> > and it is refreshing to read Colette's positive summary. It makes me
> > wish that I had chosen what to attend more carefully - and i look
> > forward to seeing more about these panels on line. So much to do in
> > so many days - and the compression led to a certain overload at
> > times, that I believe that some of the best discussions to come may
> > take place in the post-isea blogosphere. I plan to create blog for
> > the panel that i chaired, and which ended up being far too
> > compressed for the open discussion that that we now envision. (an
> > aside - we had a free google site for the panel that we had planned
> > to make live after ISE but I discovered that google sites are
> > blocked in Turkey, although most smart Turkish people get around
> > this by putting in an IP address that is from another country)
> >
> > A small correction to your thoughtful post. Turkey is not "still in
> > development" - it is rather newly engaging more conversation with
> > Western Europe/North America. (by new I mean last decade, not just
> > this year). Turkish culture is quite developed, and has been for
> > centuries. I was surprised to find ISEA goers who did not
> > know/remember that less than 100 years ago Istanbul was the center
> > of a great Empire with influence that extended throughout Eastern
> > Asia and the Middle East, and into Europe. Several Turkish artists
> > that I spoke with found it distressing that those coming from the
> > countries that are now in power think of Turkey as under-developed.
> >
> > best wishes,
> > Cynthia
> >
> > Cynthia Beth Rubin
> > http://CBRubin.net
> >
> > =========
> >
> > Hi everybody,
> > I have participed to ISEA for the 3rd time (Nagoya, Singapore,
> > Istanbul), and it is still a big event in many ways and not only in
> > quantity but in the quality of programm and discussions. It is an
> > amazing brainstorming where people from so many countries can
> > exchange about so many medias and practices, and in addition get
> > some thinking, theories, and perspectives about electronic and
> > digital tools and culture.
> > Some little things that I can say :
> > - it was so important to cross electronic art (ISEA) and
> > contemporary art (Istanbul biennal) in a place, it means in a city,
> > and a city as Istanbul , that is still in development, and at the
> > junction of Europe and Asia... Now we have to know where can be the
> > junctions between these practices : are they so different, are they
> > in the same fields, are they in different economies, how to think
> > their environment, technics, modes of production and diffusion ? We
> > can see that the exhibitions for the practices and conferences for
> > the theory are still the way to present them. In which kind of
> > public area, in which modes of knowledge and culture can we share
> > our experiments and creation, thinking and theory ? Can it be a way
> > to explore the future of isea ? Can it be a way to invent some new
> > tools, new objects (as things), new spaces ? For example, I was very
> > interested by the experimentation by the Collectif Nunc
> > www.nunc.com to explore the rôle of the catalogue as a way of
> > knowledge, and creation ; and it is only one example
> >
> > - I was very interesseted too by the Mediterranean forum on digital
> > culture, and the links with the arabic revolution. It was such
> > appropriate to speak about that in an other mediterranean country,
> > and to learn about how people used the digital and global media in
> > one part of the world, that could be seen as a local revolution, but
> > concerning the total humanity. And also it would be great to follow
> > the discussion, cause : the revolution is going on and needs to be
> > thinked to be realized, and new models seem to be necessary to
> > invent. But, in that way, it is not only a local problem, but a
> > global, if we think to the difficulties that each country can have
> > with the economic crise. New medias could help to these non
> > institutionnal exchanges. And help to find ways to invent a virtual
> > global public space
> >
> >
> > At the end I want to think all the people that organized this ISEA,
> > and above all to think Baruch Gotlieb who was my panel chair about
> > The persistence of hardware. I think we have open the beginning of a
> > discussion about the electronic and digital environment that
> > concern material, energy, production, economy, culture… that it
> > would be important to follow and to developp cause it is a very
> > crucial question in the use of these technology and its
> > consequences, that is not so immaterial…
> >
> > Regards to all
> > Colette Tron
> > Marseille, France
> > www.alphabetville.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> > Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> > http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> >
> > Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
> >
> > HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
> > subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter
> > e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down
> > the page.
> > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> > enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
> > asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear
> > ("options page").
> > HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> > "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>
>
>
> elif ayiter
> Sabanci University
> FASS VACD
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.

___________________________________________________________
Les images du Salon de l'auto de Francfort : les voitures écolos, les sportives, les hôtesses sont sur Voila.fr http://actu.voila.fr/evenementiel/salon-auto-francfort-2011/

_______________________________________________
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