On Jan 24, 2010, at 6:09 AM, Murat Germen wrote:
>
>
> there is a german photographer called thomas demand who builds full-
> scale models of some relatively important press news' physical
> settings and photographs these models with no people.
what you describes reminds me of another photographer Robyn Collier,
whose work consists of northamerican suburban or city scapes whose ads
and billboards, as well as the people that usually populate these
places have been removed ( http://tinyurl.com/yeq2m7p).
without the presence of ads and signs that might help the viewer
locate a place in a particular time, the photographs create a eery
and uncanny atmosphere where every place becomes anonymous and
inanimate. yet, the items pictured could be seen in any northamerican
town. a no-space? I guess the effect created by the german
photographer you are mentioning is very similar to the one obtained by
Collier. while the image looses its specific sense of identity
without people (or billboards) , it also becomes the quintessential
symbol of every suburban place, making us question the role of ads
and other commercial items as substantial part of our identity and
making us reflect on how much they have become points of reference in
western culture. My point here is that instead of rejecting the place
portrayed as un-real or surreal, we become aware of how important and
in fact real these places are. they are "models" or "blueprint" of
reality, they are scalable and recombinant, in the same way simulation
creates landscapes and images using references that originate from
direct observation of reality and, yet, they differ so much from this
reality.
> on the other side, if we take simulation as "representative
> translation" we can also include textual content in addition to
> visual content mentioned above. there is a recent notion of "google
> translate" as we all know. have you ever tried using it with two
> languages that you are in good command of? it is a great example of
> "transformed" or "mutated" information; it is a source that you
> should never trust, but since it is easily reachable / usable a lot
> of people use the service it seems. imagine what is going to happen
> to the content of an originally spanish text googletranslated into
> english, that in turn gets googletranslated into chinese later...
I think that simulation is somehow a form of translation, so your term
"representative translation" is very much descriptive of the process
simulation creates.
>
> simulation (in the concrete sense) as test ground is very helpful
> and needed. yet, simulation (in the abstract sense) as diminishing,
> superficializing, distorting information can prove to be dangerous i
> guess...
... simulation indeed subtracts and condenses, but I don't necessarily
see it in a negative way. consider the case of models for scientific
research. as Tufte reminds us, the author of such models needs to make
a selection, or the model would end up being illegible.
rb
>
> On 21.01.2010 19:42, roger malina wrote:
>> *Yasminers*
>>
>> *Colette Tron refers our discussion to her text: Digital Simulation:*
>>
>> *a new form of representation ? or the journey from simulation to
>> simulacra.
>> *
>>
>> *She asks in her text whether there is anything really new in
>> digitally
>> produced simulation, whether in art or in science or whether
>> simulation
>> produced with computers is in continuity with the history of
>> representation
>> and simulacra in general.*
>>
>> *She argues that numerical simulations which seek to 'emulate'
>> natural
>> phenomena (behave like them) intoduce new issues both in art and in
>> science
>> and in art a new kind of "artificial".*
>>
>> *
>> She notes that numerical simulation can only be used for phenomena
>> that are
>> 'calculable" which puts beyond the reach of numerical simulation many
>> phenomena that are important to human beings ( editorial comment
>> from roger
>> = remember Roy Ascott's text "is there love in the telematic
>> embrace" :
>> http://www.jstor.org/pss/777114 )*
>>
>> *Colette goes on to discuss Jean Francois Lyotard's important 1980s
>> exhibition*
>>
>> *in Paris, Les Immateriaux*
>>
>> *Colette's text is in french*
>>
>> *
>> *
>>
>> *
>> *
>>
>> Simulation numérique : un nouvel état de la représentation ? ou de la
>> simulation au simulacre, par Colette Tron
>>
>> *
>> *
>>
>> *http://www.alphabetville.org/article.php3?id_article=111*
>>
>> *
>> *
>>
>> *
>> **2009
>> Intervention dans le cadre de Colloque Simulation technologique
>> Matérialisation
>> artistique<http://www.alphabetville.org/article.php3?id_article=93>
>> *
>> <http://www.alphabetville.org/article.php3?id_article=111>
>>
>> La simulation entretient une relation historique, à la fois avec le
>> domaine
>> de la science, et avec celui des arts. En science, on parle de
>> simulation de
>> phénomènes en opposition à l'expérimentation, et en art, on parle de
>> simulation en opposition au simulacre. On reviendra plus loin sur ces
>> notions. Notions qui sont proches de l'imitation.
>> La simulation technologique, elle, est celle de la simulation
>> numérique, ou
>> informatique, celle réalisée par les machines à calcul que sont les
>> ordinateurs.
>> Il s'agira donc de tenter de comparer la notion de simulation entre
>> science
>> et art, mais surtout dans les conceptions liées à la représentation
>> artistique, de dégager une actualisation de la simulation avec la
>> technologie numérique.
>>
>> Celle-ci relie d'ailleurs techniquement, mais sépare peut-être
>> conceptuellement, science et art, et semble instaurer des rapports
>> renouvelés entre art et technique.
>> Dans le cas des technologies numériques appliquées à l'art, ou des
>> arts
>> numériques, le terme de simulation tendrait à recouvrir les champs
>> technologiques et artistiques, et peut-être à s'obscursir de cet
>> entrecroisement.
>> Ainsi, " La référence à la simulation bien que traversant toute la
>> philosophie, n'en est pas plus claire pour autant quand elle vient à
>> rencontrer singulièrement l'informatique." C'est ce que nous dit
>> Francis
>> Rousseau, chercheur à l'IRCAM, dans un article intitulé
>> "Informatique,
>> simulacre et simulation"<http://www.ardanti.com/rousseaux/pdf/papiers/informatiqueSimulacreSimul%20.pdf
>> >
>> .
>> Et il ajoute : "Au fond, il s'agit de décider si les simulations
>> informatiques inaugurent un genre nouveau de simulation."
>>
>> De la science à l'art, de quelle nature serait alors ce nouveau type
>> d'artifice ?
>>
>> [image: space]
>>
>>
>>
>> roger
>> voici le lien pour lire l'article sur simulation et art :
>> http://www.alphabetville.org/article.php3?id_article=111
>>
>> je peux aussi faire passer l'info de la discussion yasmin aux
>> organisateurs
>> du colloque, qui vont bientôt publier les actes
>>
>> à bientôt
>> colette
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
> subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-
> mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down
> the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
> asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear
> ("options page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
