This discussion is a bit difficult to follow for me as I
don't have much time to read everything, so I hope that my
remark will not be too trivial.
For me there is a difference between simulating and
representing.
But one naive question : if life is simulatable (A.life),
then death is too...
Annick
Pier Luigi Capucci wrote:
> Dear Derek, beautiful idea that death can be something un-simulatable.... But, don't you think images like the following ones can represent it?
>
> http://laccarossa.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/2202la-morte-sceletro.jpg
> http://dimensionemorgana.ilcannocchiale.it/blogs/bloggerarchimg/distrattamentemorgana/morte.jpg
> http://www.settemuse.it/pittori_scultori_europei/bruegel/pieter_bruegel_the_elder_013_il_trionfo_della_morte_1562.jpg
> http://www.anti-communist.net/katyn/katyn_wood_massacre.jpg
> http://www.infopal.it/writable/img/morti%20di%20gaza.jpg
> ...........
> ...........
>
> Pier Luigi
>
> Il giorno 21/gen/2011, alle ore 21.13, derek hales ha scritto:
>
>> to go back to the opening question - and with apologies, when Pier first
>> posed the question of what was un-simulatable / unsimulable, before staring
>> the discussion - I said something like "life"...I take it all back - it is
>> death. death cannot be simulated, perhaps the final rasping breath can - but
>> the completion of non - sense, the utter desolation of the senses, the
>> unconditioned, a void: this surely cannot be simulated?
>>
>> derek
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20 January 2011 07:10, derek hales <hales.derek@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Yasmin,
>>>
>>> is the simulation of sense all we need for the real to become, in its
>>> treatment as entirely rational, *the* simulation...
>>>
>>> Derek
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18 January 2011 18:03, Ennio Bertrand <enniobertrand@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> dear clarissa,
>>>> about shent
>>>> in 1996 I relized an installation to transmit perfumed photography by
>>>> internet in 4 different places
>>>> ennio bertrand
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 2:34 AM, Clarissa Ribeiro Pereira de Almeida <
>>>> almeida.clarissa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And here, something about "computer-controlled olfactory displays" and
>>>>> smell
>>>>> simulation...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On "Proustian effects"
>>>>>
>>>>> We can experience odors that tap into emotionally charged memories. This
>>>>> phenomenon has its roots in the olfactory system – some smells can
>>>> trigger
>>>>> memories of events that take place many years earlier. A phenomenon of
>>>>> Involuntary
>>>>> memory. A very famous mention in literature of this kind of sensorial
>>>> event
>>>>> in the Marcel Proust novel *In Search of Lost Time*, where the
>>>>> narrator experiences
>>>>> an awakening upon tasting a madeleine dipped in tea:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "She sent out for one of those short, plump little cakes called petites
>>>>> madeleines, which look as though they had been moulded in the fluted
>>>>> scallop
>>>>> of a pilgrim's shell. And soon, mechanically, weary after a dull day
>>>> with
>>>>> the prospect of a depressing morrow, I raised to my lips a spoonful of
>>>> the
>>>>> tea in which I had soaked a morsel of the cake. No sooner had the warm
>>>>> liquid, and the crumbs with it, touched my palate than a shudder ran
>>>>> through
>>>>> my whole body, and I stopped, intent upon the extraordinary changes that
>>>>> were taking place…at once the vicissitudes of life had become
>>>> indifferent
>>>>> to
>>>>> me, its disasters innocuous, its brevity illusory […]" (Marcel
>>>>> Proust, *Remembrance
>>>>> of Things Past, Volume 1: Swann's Way*. London: Chatto and Windus,
>>>> 1922.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Recognizing *odors associated with meaningful places*:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5406/amerjpsyc.123.3.0281
>>>>>
>>>>> MIT Neuroscientists Explain 'Proustian Effect' Of Small Details Attached
>>>> To
>>>>> Big Memories:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> http://chem.info/News/Feeds/2011/01/topics-plant-operations-mit-neuroscientists-explain-proustian-effect-of-sm/
>>>>> Projection-Based Olfactory Display with Nose Tracking
>>>>> ISBN: 0-7803-8415-6
>>>>> Most attempts to realize an olfactory display have involved capturing
>>>> and
>>>>> synthesizing the odor. This work focus on spatio-temporal control of
>>>> odor
>>>>> rather than synthesizing odor itself:
>>>>> http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/VR.2004.1310054
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <
>>>>>
>>>> http://chem.info/News/Feeds/2011/01/topics-plant-operations-mit-neuroscientists-explain-proustian-effect-of-sm/
>>>>> And here we can read about the *SubSmell System*:
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea of adding the SubSmell logo to the movie for describing the
>>>> scent
>>>>> of each event in the movie has been proposed to improve the current way
>>>> of
>>>>> seeing movies, which can perceive only pictures and sound. Using the
>>>>> SubSmell, the audience can smell the movie. The audiences need a
>>>> SubSmell
>>>>> application to read a SubSmell and an olfactory display in order to
>>>> release
>>>>> scent.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.springerlink.com/content/p642p43x04n61567/
>>>>>
>>>>> A Thesis on "*Symbolic Olfactory Display*" exploring the problems and
>>>>> possibilities of computer-controlled scent output.
>>>>>
>>>>> by Joseph Nathaniel Kaye
>>>>>
>>>>> S.B. Brain & Cognitive Science,
>>>>>
>>>>> Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1999
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~jofish/thesis/symbolic_olfactory_display.html<http://alumni.media.mit.edu/%7Ejofish/thesis/symbolic_olfactory_display.html>
>>>> <
>>>> http://alumni.media.mit.edu/%7Ejofish/thesis/symbolic_olfactory_display.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Clarissa Ribeiro
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/1/17 Clarissa Ribeiro Pereira de Almeida <
>>>> almeida.clarissa@gmail.com>
>>>>>> … "So what is un- un-simulatable? And why?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here, just an instantaneous free writing exercise around the questions
>>>> I
>>>>>> want to share:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *"A moist media pulp fiction (or an escape attempt from the
>>>>> simulatable)"*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A datacloud was fluctuating in a datasky. Radio waves were *flowing
>>>>> by*slowly and dancing and shaking the cloud waves-particles. For a
>>>> databeing
>>>>>> who was observing the system, the scale was macro; the time was
>>>> complex;
>>>>> the
>>>>>> sun was shining, as unusual. The cloud was so excited that was about
>>>> to
>>>>> rain
>>>>>> and give birth to a moist context that could be the beginning of a new
>>>>>> reality in a system of realities. Escaping from this about to born
>>>>> reality,
>>>>>> the moist nature of the rain was just a temporary sensorial illusion
>>>> of
>>>>> the
>>>>>> databeing who was vibrating as the radio waves *pervase* its structure
>>>> –
>>>>> "
>>>>>> *Take it as it comes /Specialize in having fun*". Suddenly, in an
>>>>>> unpredictable instant, here comes the rain. By maters of the
>>>> observation,
>>>>>> the soft rain becomes a datapool where one can quantum jumping and
>>>> meet a
>>>>>> myriad of multiple selves. Entangled delicate un-simulatable reality.
>>>>> Here
>>>>>> comes the sun. It's all right!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clarissa Ribeiro
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2011/1/17 Pier Luigi Capucci <plc@noemalab.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Yasminers,
>>>>>>> in this second discussion about the simulation issues the topics (the
>>>>>>> un-simulatable and the simulation of the senses) are very different,
>>>>>>> although related. In the remote and mediated communication some
>>>> senses
>>>>> we
>>>>>>> normally use and that are very important in our everyday's life -
>>>> like
>>>>> smell
>>>>>>> and touch - simply do not pass, they are not effective, are useless.
>>>>> While
>>>>>>> the simulation hugely involves the sight and the hear, which are the
>>>> so
>>>>>>> called "superior senses", all the other sensory information is
>>>> dropped
>>>>> out.
>>>>>>> Asimple information about the chemical senses:
>>>>>>> http://www.slideshare.net/lwolberg/chemical-senses-smell-and-taste
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Many times we have heard about the need of restructuring and
>>>> redefining
>>>>>>> the communication, a critique about "balancing" and discussing the
>>>>>>> communication's issues. Many important international events (like the
>>>>> almost
>>>>>>> concurrent Transmediale) seem devoted to the ethical issues of the
>>>>>>> communication. But maybe the problem is at a more general level, on
>>>> the
>>>>> fact
>>>>>>> that from a sensory viewpoint the remote and mediated communication
>>>> is
>>>>>>> poorer than the direct one because drops out an important part of the
>>>>> way we
>>>>>>> "get in touch" with each other. Hence we must admit we accepted to
>>>>>>> communicate more rapidly, over greater distance, in an increasingly
>>>>>>> affordable and economic way, but in exchange for an impoverished
>>>>>>> communication.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the other side, in a world where the information is extensively
>>>>>>> simulated by the mass media and the new media - a topic debated in
>>>> our
>>>>> first
>>>>>>> discussion last year in Yasmin - is there anything which can't enter
>>>> the
>>>>>>> realm of simulation, which can't be simulated, hence reduced - since
>>>> the
>>>>>>> simulation is always a reduction of the phenomenon which is being
>>>>> simulated?
>>>>>>> So what is un-simultable? And why?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the artist doing in this direction?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some more info later!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you and best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pier Luigi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Pier Luigi Capucci
>>>>>>> e-mail: plc@noemalab.org
>>>>>>> web: http://www.noemalab.org/plc/plc.html
>>>>>>> skype: plcapucci
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *we-are-making-digital-art.com*
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>
> --
> Pier Luigi Capucci
> e-mail: plc@noemalab.org
> web: http://www.noemalab.org/plc/plc.html
> skype: plcapucci
>
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--
------------------------
Annick Bureaud (abureaud@gmail.com)
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