Plato? Why not return to Jesus? Or earlier notions of symbols and
interpretations of the early homo sapiens sapiens and cave paintings, where
the image represented an deeply physiological manifestation of how the image
could alter perceptions of the past and present, and form an attempt to
predestine the future?
These all have historical import and have influenced how individuals and
society feel and think about the world around us, while animating signs and
interpreting visual associations and tokens of social patterns.
The world has become so deeply and profoundly influenced by the obvious and
the silent signs that we have, in fact and in part, become psychologically
confused by what is true meaning and what is hyped, or if the hyped has
become the truth. On this level, it seems that one large environmental spill
is simulacra that is nondestructable and potentially nonaesthetic.
But even if we cherish Baudrillard's interpretation of simulacra, rather
than Philip K. Dick's, Baudrillard contends that simulation, his suggested
fourth stage it is no more than a reflection. Is this postmodern view
correct? Yes, probably if it is sequestered to the world of postmodernist
perspectives. Yes, it has great value framed as such.
Outside this philosophical framing is a different understanding of
simulation. One that is more integrated with the "The Matrix", and not "The
Truman Show" (which is merely an intended, outright falsifying of the real
is developing a pretense). In an interview, Baudrillard interprets the
significance of the "The Matrix"
http://web.archive.org/web/20080113012028/http://www.empyree.org/divers/Matr
ix-Baudrillard_english.html as relative to his vision of simulacra outside
the hypermodern meaning which ties more neatly into the computational mode
or reality.
All my best,
Natasha
Natasha Vita-More
-----Original Message-----
From: yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr
[mailto:yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr] On Behalf Of Vítor
Reia-Baptista
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 5:07 AM
To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Around Simulation II - SimulatedSenses and
the Un-Simulatable
Hi.
I also have some problems following this discussion, since it seems to me
(as Roger says) that there is some confusion between simulation and
representation. There are many texts written about this but Baudrillard's
Simulacres et simulation can be a good start for those that feel that need
of clarification.
Vítor
Citando roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>:
> annick
>
> I agree with you that in order for this discussion not to be
> hopelessly confused and generalising we need to distinguich between
"simulating"
> which needs be seen in the context of digital simulation, and
> representation (such as the Brughel paintings and the photos that pier
> luigi points to)
>
> here is the wikipaedia statement on the meaning of the word simulation
> in the context of computer and systems sciences:
>
> ""Historically, simulations used in different fields developed largely
> independently, but 20th century studies of Systems theory and
> Cybernetics combined with spreading use of computers across all those
> fields have led to some unification and a more systematic view of the
> concept.
>
> Physical simulation refers to simulation in which physical objects are
> substituted for the real thing (some circles[3] use the term for
> computer simulations modelling selected laws of physics, but this
> article doesn't). These physical objects are often chosen because they
> are smaller or cheaper than the actual object or system.
>
> Interactive simulation is a special kind of physical simulation, often
> referred to as a human in the loop simulation, in which physical
> simulations include human operators, such as in a flight simulator or
> a driving simulator.
>
> Human in the loop simulations can include a computer simulation as a
> so-called synthetic environment.[4]""
>
> pier luigi and jennifer when they talk about "simulating the senses"
> i think are within this definition of "simulation" and the general
> dicussion one could have about painting and music and representation
> in the arts
>
> so for me a picture that happens to be developed using computer
> graphics is not a "simulation" in this sense but an alife program that
> generates evolving life like systems ( and then you can photograph and
> produce a still graphic)= the work of karl simms etc
>
> as mentioned in the definition above, often the aspect of
> interactivity is key to creating an digitally generated experience that
"simulates'
> a naturally
> occuring one
>
> so i agree= for the discussion of simulation here not to be over
> general we need to distinguish clearly between simulation and
> representation
>
> roger
>
> On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Annick Bureaud <bureaud@altern.org>
wrote:
>> Dear Pier Luigi, Dear All,
>>
>> This discussion is a bit difficult to follow for me as I don't have
>> much time to read everything, so I hope that my remark will not be too
trivial.
>>
>> For me there is a difference between simulating and representing.
>>
>> But one naive question : if life is simulatable (A.life), then death
>> is too...
>>
>> Annick
>>
>> Pier Luigi Capucci wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Derek, beautiful idea that death can be something
un-simulatable....
>>> But, don't you think images like the following ones can represent it?
>>>
>>> http://laccarossa.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/2202la-morte-sceletro.
>>> jpg
>>>
>>> http://dimensionemorgana.ilcannocchiale.it/blogs/bloggerarchimg/dist
>>> rattamentemorgana/morte.jpg
>>>
>>> http://www.settemuse.it/pittori_scultori_europei/bruegel/pieter_brue
>>> gel_the_elder_013_il_trionfo_della_morte_1562.jpg
>>> http://www.anti-communist.net/katyn/katyn_wood_massacre.jpg
>>> http://www.infopal.it/writable/img/morti%20di%20gaza.jpg
>>> ...........
>>> ...........
>>>
>>> Pier Luigi
>>>
>>> Il giorno 21/gen/2011, alle ore 21.13, derek hales ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> to go back to the opening question - and with apologies, when Pier
>>>> first posed the question of what was un-simulatable / unsimulable,
>>>> before staring the discussion - I said something like "life"...I
>>>> take it all back - it is death. death cannot be simulated, perhaps
>>>> the final rasping breath can - but the completion of non - sense,
>>>> the utter desolation of the senses, the unconditioned, a void: this
>>>> surely cannot be simulated?
>>>>
>>>> derek
>>>>
>>>>
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