French artist François Deck (professor at Grenoble School of Fine Arts)
proposes a definition of artistic competencies, and underlines that
artists have an ability for experimentation, for conception, for
anticipation, and also that their activity is part of a certain ethic; he
mentions community ethics regulated by his peers [in french: "on peut
souligner chez les artistes une faculté d'expérimentation (...), de
conception (...) et d'anticipation (...), ainsi qu'une activité qui
s'inscrit dans une certaine éthique (éthique communautaire régulée par les
pairs, connexion entre le désir et l'activité, destin public de ses
activités)". He also underlines that incompetence is central to create but
that is another debate.
I think that one of the central interest in integrating artists in
research projects, or more widely in the fact that artists can sometimes
be inventors, is that they often introduce ethical questions to the
projects, that they usually (not always) question the systems of value,
and they introduce to the projects a social dimension that didn't exist
before, in the way of doing things (in the working processes) or in the
possible uses/applications of their invention/project.
To comment more precisely the question 9 ("Often innovations in social
organization and practices are as crucial as technological innovation"),
it is not only that artists (often close to activism) can work and can
invent new practices / services in social organizations, but that they can
also be there to question ethical and social implications of technological
innovations.
This is quite clear in many of the projects that has been developed in
DISONANCIAS: artist/architect Santiago Cirugeda/Recetas Urbanas proposed a
social use (self construction and small scale houses) for a structural
system normally employed in unique and very big buildings (Lanik); as
Roger Malina already mentioned, Amasté with Lantegi Batuak worked on how
to socially better integrate disabled people; Platoniq, with its project
called Common Bank of Knowledge, proposes new ways of transferring
knowledge within society out of academic organisations, and studies what
can be done now in DISONANCIAS within a Faculty of Engineering; Josep
Maria Martin questions within an insurance company the concept of
security, in all its dimensions. These examples are quite obvious; but
also in other projects or results apparently less connected to social
issues, we know that the artists introduced in the organisations questions
related to ethics that were not even considered before.
Best,
arantxa
> Hello! This is my first post and so I'm very much behind
> the curve. I am a US intellectual property attorney. I've
> been retained by a multi-media performance space affiliated
> with a large scientific research facility to provide advice
> about ownership of artistic performance works that are
> created by visiting artists.
> The works will invariably involve the intersection of art
> and science through the collaboration of artists and scientists.
>
> The scientific facility has a long-standing culture of
> owning (or sharing ownership) of scientific inventions
> created by both resident and vising scientists. I'm tasked
> with finding out how other similar institutions and
> organizations handle intellectual property ownership (both
> copyright and patent) among artists, scientists and the host
> facility, and hearing any anecdotal information about how
> these structures arose.
>
> I'm reading the theoretical discussions here with great
> interest, but right now I'm chiefly interested in what
> currently is happening in the field, and why. Discussions
> with decision and policy makers at various institutions
> would be most welcome.
>
> Please feel free to contact me outside this thread at my
> email address above.
>
> Thanks!!!
>
>
> robert.thill@gmail.com wrote:
>> Dear Yasminers,
>>
>> The artist Joe Scanlan invented a recipe for dirt, which is primarily
>> composed of coffee grounds that are mixed with other commercial and
>> industrial waste, including gypsum, sawdust, bone meal and/or fish
>> meal, and Epsom salts.
>>
>> (The project is named "Pay Dirt." To learn about this project, see
>> “Dirt,†“The Fallen,†Things That Fall,
>> http://www.thingsthatfall.com/dirt.php.)
>>
>> Scanlan's critique of intellectual property is contrary to some
>> statements in the discussion about open-source practices, such as
>> Alejandro and Roger's posts.
>>
>> In discussion with the critic François Piron, Scanlan has said, “Pay
>> Dirt is unique to me and therefore useful as a kind of soapbox on
>> which to stand and proclaim my proud participation in---but
>> distinction within---the global economy.†Joe Scanlan, interview by
>> François Piron, “Commodify Your Dissent: A Conversation with Joe
>> Scanlan,†Trouble (English Edition) no. 1, 2005. The PDF can be opened
>> or downloaded at Trouble,
>> http://trouble.net.free.fr/TROUBLE/trouble-englishe.html.
>>
>> Scanlan's requirement for an element of invention could also of
>> interest in relationship to Alejandro and Hideki's discussion of
>> madness or what he describes as "eccentricity."
>>
>> When asked by Piron in the same interview about the need for invention
>> in his work, Scanlan responded, “I do require an element of invention
>> in my work, but it is not so much because I find inventions useful or
>> practical, but because inventions usually originate at some low,
>> private level. This gives them traits---eccentricity, optimism,
>> delusions of grandeur---that are not often found in socially
>> engineered objects.â€
>>
>> Further, in the context of a discussion of American nineteenth-century
>> transcendentalists, Thoreau, and individualism, Scanlan said, "I think
>> self-reliance---or art for that matter---should not be defined as the
>> avoidance of commerce but as the ability to engage it on your own
>> terms." Joe Scanlan, interview by Julian Heynen, "Passing Though," in
>> Joe Scanlan, _Passing Through_ (Bielefeld: Kerber, 2007), 98.
>>
>> I am curious to hear responses from the list about this Scanlan's
>> perspective, especially as his critique/practice diverges from the
>> call for open-source practices.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Robert Thill
>>
>> On 3/14/09, alejandro tamayo <laimagendelmundo@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> Dear Hideki and All,
>>>
>>> I've been following this discussion from afar and some times I have
>>> skipped
>>> some emails, so my apologies if some of these ideas have already been
>>> covered.
>>>
>>> I quiet understand your feelings about being considered mad for your 3d
>>> printing proposal back in 1996.
>>>
>>> However, I think that there is a fine line between madness and genius
>>> and,
>>> for good or for bad, they are not mutually exclusive, they can coexist,
>>> and
>>> art sometimes happens to be precisely in that borderline. It is up to
>>> the
>>> understanding of others which classification to put on you or on your
>>> work.
>>>
>>> As for the patenting issue, I personally don't have any, although I
>>> have
>>> been tempted to apply for more than one. But I have never ended up
>>> filling
>>> out any application, specially after considering that the creative
>>> technological outcome can provide so many cultural benefits if left
>>> open.
>>> Although I agree that patenting (as well as writing books) could serve
>>> as a
>>> way for disseminating your ideas in a clear way.
>>>
>>> I just feel that today we are more and more understanding the
>>> importance of
>>> open and free processes and the benefit we all gain in supporting a
>>> collaborative, unrestricted, construction of human knowledge, and
>>> technology
>>> in particular. Perhaps what we need is to find new strategies for
>>> disseminating *clearly*, and *openly* our new ideas.
>>>
>>>
>>> best,
>>>
>>> alejandro
>>> www.thepopshop.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Sat, 3/14/09, Nakazawa Hideki <nakazawa@aloalo.co.jp> wrote:
>>> From: Nakazawa Hideki <nakazawa@aloalo.co.jp>
>>> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] ARTISTS AS INVENTORS, art as invention
>>> To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>> Received: Saturday, March 14, 2009, 2:08 PM
>>>
>>> Dear Robert,
>>>
>>>
>>> Because patenting was the closest way to describe fully my original
>>> idea
>>> of my invention.
>>>
>>> The actual product software "Digital Clay," which I persuaded Ask
>>> Company
>>> to produce, had very limited functions (i.e. only 32x32x32 voxels)
>>> because of the then machine specs in 1996 and to save on expenses as
>>> well.
>>> However, I could describe ideal 3D bitmap software with full functions
>>> in
>>> my patent even in 1996.
>>>
>>> I could persuade no company to produce 3D bitmap printers at that time.
>>> However, I could describe 3D bitmap printers in my patent.
>>> As for my invention of 3D bitmap printers, patenting was the only way
>>> which made 3D bitmap printers "exist" in this world.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I can say as the following also: describing idea as intangible
>>> idea like patents is more perfect than making actual tangible products,
>>> especially in the case of basic invention, not mere improvement.
>>> (Close to Plato's Idealism)
>>>
>>> Writing monographs to a scientific society might be another intangible
>>> way.
>>> However, my invention is actual invention rather than to be academic
>>> study.
>>>
>>> Writing books might be another intangible way. However, I was afraid
>>> that
>>> my claim to be seen mere mad. To be patented by nations was one way to
>>> prove my claim being rational, not mad.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Hideki Nakazawa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear Hideki,
>>>>
>>>> Why did you choose patenting as a way to represent, communicate ,
>>>> and/or embody your method of "inventing 3D bitmap materials; software
>>>> and printers (product 3D bitmap software 'Digital Clay' in 1996,
>>>> patents for 3D"?
>>>>
>>>> There are other ways to establish a "new basic genre '3D
>>> bitmap' as
>>>> digital modeling."
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Robert Thill
>>>>
>>>> On 3/9/09, Nakazawa Hideki <nakazawa at aloalo.co.jp> wrote:
>>>>> ARTISTS AS INVENTORS, art as invention
>>>>> Hideki Nakazawa
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Yasminers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you to Roger and Robert for inviting me as one of the
>>> discussants.
>>>>> I am a fine art artist who invented the first 3D bitmap software and
>>>>> printers in the levels of both products and patents. In this my
>>> case,
>>>>> I believe invention itself is ART, rather to call art-RELATED
>>> invention.
>>>>> Yes, my interest is whether art as invention or invention as art can
>>> be
>>>>> accepted or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides, I do not want to think about some kind of conceptual art
>>> which
>>>>> places non-art objects into an art context. NOT because non-art
>>>>> objects (such as invention) can be called art in the sense of
>>> conceptual
>>>>> art, I believe some of inventions are core of art as they are.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here I am giving 3 past cases with 1 my case.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) George Seurat's pointillism
>>>>> Purpose = representative painting focusing color
>>>>> Method = pointillism (color division and touch division)
>>>>> Result = many of Seurat's pointillist paintings
>>>>>
>>>>> I think creating method from the purpose is invention, while creating
>>>>> art works using method is making-art. Here, pointillism is
>>> invention.
>>>>> We can say with no doubt that pointillist paintings are art and
>>> Seurat
>>>>> is one of the artists as inventors. Then, can we say inventing
>>>>> pointillism itself art? We know that Seurat himself disliked to be
>>>>> called pointillist. But I think inventing pointillism itself was
>>> core
>>>>> of visual art.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) Arnold Shoenberg's dodecaphony
>>>>> Purpose = music composition using 12 notes equally
>>>>> Method = dodecaphony (forming tone rows symmetrically)
>>>>> Result = many of Shoenberg's dodecaphonic pieces
>>>>>
>>>>> Here dodecaphony is invention, the method created from the purpose.
>>>>> We can say Shoenberg's dodecaphonic pieces are art and Shoenberg
>>> is one
>>>>> of the artists as inventors. We know that Shoenberg himself
>>> emphasized
>>>>> dodecaphonic "COMPOSITION" denying "DODECAPHONIC"
>>> composition. But I
>>>>> think inventing dodecaphony itself was core of music composition.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) Leonard Da Vinci's inventions of paint material and drawings
>>> of ideas
>>>>> Purpose = representative painting
>>>>> Method = preparing better paint material and better drawings of ideas
>>>>> (later called academism)
>>>>> Result = very few Da Vinci's paintings in spite of many tried
>>> paint
>>>>> materials and many drawings of ideas
>>>>>
>>>>> We know that Da Vinci tried each different paint material for each
>>>>> different painting and even he often invented it. We know that he
>>>>> prepared many drawings of ideas. (Attention: drawings came to be
>>>>> considered art today, while not in those days. Drawings were kind of
>>>>> invention.) We also know that once he thought his invention has
>>> done,
>>>>> he lost interest to continue making art works. Only few paintings
>>>>> remain till today; one reason is that some of his paint material
>>> which
>>>>> he invented was defective, another reason is that he lost interest
>>>>> after invented paint material or finished his drawings of ideas.
>>>>> Let's think more about the latter. I believe the core of Da
>>> Vinci's
>>>>> art is inventing paint material or drawings of ideas rather than
>>> making
>>>>> art works. In this case method as invention itself turned to be the
>>>>> purpose again. I want to say method is art and invention is art in
>>>>> this case.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 4) My 3D bitmap software and printers
>>>>> Purpose = to establish new basic genre "3D bitmap" as
>>> digital modering,
>>>>> while so-called "3D" is only the world of 3D vector as
>>> digital carving
>>>>> Method = inventing 3D bitmap materials; software and printers
>>>>> (product 3D bitmap software "Digital Clay" in 1996, patents
>>> for 3D
>>>>> bitmap software and 3D bitmap printers in 1996)
>>>>> Result = no 3D bitmap art works of mine yet
>>>>>
>>>>> First I have to say that I have produced many art works as a fine art
>>>>> artist, but I have never produced 3D bitmap art works except examples
>>>>> for my software. When I decided to apply patents in 1996, I consider
>>>>> patents themselves art. Again the method turned to be the purpose.
>>>>> No need my 3D bitmap art works, because I do not think that 3D bitmap
>>>>> materials are mere steps to making 3D bitmap art works. My purpose,
>>>>> establishing a genre "3D bitmap," is more essential than
>>> making art
>>>>> works, I thought. I named this project "Art Patents" that
>>> is to claim
>>>>> my intangible patents themselves being art without any tangible art
>>>>> works. However, I am feeling to be misunderstood even today, 2009.
>>>>> If you also have questions, I am willing to hear.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want to know more on my inventions, please visit:
>>>>> http://www.clancco.com/featured/hideki_nakazawa_art-
>>>>> related_patent_inventions_in_t.html
>>>>> http://aloalo.co.jp/nakazawa/200511kandada/patent_e.html
>>>>>
>>>>> If you can read Japanese, the above argument is written in my
>>> monograph
>>>>> "Method of Art and Art of Method" carried on
>>> "Philosophy Vol. 7,"
>>>>> Iwanami Lecture Series, 2008.
>>>>> http://www.iwanami.co.jp/moreinfo/011261+/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hideki Nakazawa
>>>>> http://aloalo.co.jp/nakazawa/
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