contemporary conceptual art rests heavily on ideas as we know. it's
not the craft in the work but the idea usually that makes the work
valuable these days (i personally value craft as well, in addition to
"the" idea by the way). art market is an amazingly active market, even
in the days of economical crisis the amount of sales and activity is
surprisingly substantial. the simple equation goes like this: art
depends on idea, art has a market value, then artistic idea has a
market value too (sometimes millions of dollars) and it has to be
legally protected somehow.
i visited paris photo last year, japan was the guest country. there is
one japanese photographer (among others) that i really like; hiroshi
sugimoto. he is especially known with some very minimal seascapes (http://www.sugimotohiroshi.com/seascape.html
). sugimoto sells very well, i saw a photo from the seascape series
which was around 70.000 euros and it had 5 red dots on it. when i was
walking through thousands of images, one seascape photo caught my
attention in another booth and it looked very much like a sugimoto
photo. i approached to see details, saw it was somebody else's and
felt pretty awkward. this particular style is sugimoto's signature, it
is in a way a reserved slot in these circles and producing something
very similar to it, is taking advantage of the commercial potential of
the particular expression style. yes, everybody can take sea photos;
but there are tons of other ways to deal with sea and water...
i am not claiming at all that artistic idea is a more worthwhile
invention than other "types" of inventions that made our lives more
easy, pleasant, rich, etc.; but artistic creation, though not
indispensable and vital, is something that can make our lives
different, enjoyable, excited at times. since creation is directly
linked with idea, there should be some sort of a right protection
process involved within the art world. but i cannot at this moment
propose a particular protection system since i am not knowledgeable at
all in law...
regards
murat
<<< +90 532 473 8970 (gsm mobile)
<<< muratgermen@gmail.com
<<< http://www.muratgermen.com
<<< http://www.flickr.com/photos/muratgermen/
On 01.Mar.2009, at 23:52, robert.thill@gmail.com wrote:
> Thank you for your comments, Bronac.
>
> Yes, conceptual art practices and patents are not the same thing. I
> hope that my introduction did not confuse or conflate them.
>
> In my statement, I began by describing my area of research, which is
> the intersections between patents and contemporary art.
>
> In the paragraph about artist as inventors, I do not mention patents.
> The series of quotes by the artist Jakob Fenger of Superflex speak to
> parallels between inventing and art-making; he is not referring to
> patents. His comments address our discussion's topic of artists as
> inventors, which he links through creativity.
>
> However, I will add here that Superflex did secure patents for their
> biogas system. Nevertheless, according to Fenger, it was not
> intentionally an integral part of the work's concept. The driving
> force for Superflex's patenting was to engage investors in their
> project. At that time (about a decade ago), investors were demanding
> an intellectual property position. In an e-mail message on 3 February
> 2009, Fenger describes the situation and references the related shift
> in their newer work, which engages intellectual property from a
> significantly different vantage point, he wrote: "If we were to start
> out developing the biogas system today, we work quite differently
> ('copy-shop,' 'free beer,' 'copy right,' etc.) and we do not see any
> thread in people copying our system."
>
> I am glad to offer examples of artworks that deliberately attempt to
> integrate patent and art concepts as the discussion continues. I also
> think the idea of examining the role of design is interesting.
> However, as we begin the dialogue, I think it might be productive to
> keep the discussion more broadly on the topic of artists as inventors.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert
>
>
>
> On 3/1/09, Bronac Ferran <bronacferran@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Interesting discussion and I would like to add some comments.
>>
>> I think it is quite provocative and dangerous to conflate
>> conceptual art
>> practice with the notion of a patent (which is a legal device) or a
>> trademark (similar).
>>
>> I attended a talk with a representative of Superflex a few weeks
>> ago at
>> South London Gallery which also had a lawyer who has done some
>> great work
>> with radical art - Daniel McClean. Some of these issues and
>> questions were
>> covered but at no stage was there a straightforward conflation of
>> patenting
>> with concepts - obviously what Superflex have done is go beyond
>> concept into
>> production of goods and services for sale which of course then
>> leads into
>> realisation of objects within a market (with all the legal systems
>> thereby
>> implied).
>>
>> I hope that some of the parsing apart of this kind of conflation
>> can be
>> activated within the process of this Yasmin discussion - and that
>> we may
>> also put a finger on some examples where artistic 'invention' has
>> led to
>> patenting (as the list is very small at present). We should also
>> take into
>> account the role of design which has a much clearer and much more
>> straightforward relationship, here.
>>
>> all best wishes
>> Bronac
>> www.boundaryobject.org .
>> http://uk.youtube.com/iderca
>>
>>
>>
>> 2009/3/1 <robert.thill@gmail.com>
>>
>>> Dear Yasminers,
>>>
>>> I wish to thank Roger Malina for the opportunity to moderate the
>>> discussion on artists as inventors and our six accomplished
>>> discussants for their participation: Derek Hales, Sylvie Lacerte,
>>> Arantxa Mendiharat, Hideki Nakazawa, Barbara U. Schmidt, and Colette
>>> Tron.
>>>
>>> My interest in artists as inventors stems from my curiosity about
>>> the
>>> intersections between contemporary art and utility patents. I
>>> discovered through research that this seemingly narrow terrain was
>>> actually an expansive area, which could encompass a wide range of
>>> practices that went far beyond artists' patents. For instance, it
>>> could include elements as diverse as the novel achievements of an
>>> innovator whose self-patent works were reclassified as "visionary"
>>> or
>>> "outsider" art (William W. Adkins) and a patent institution that
>>> collects contemporary art and displays it in the workplace with the
>>> progressive idea of stimulating discussion, productivity, and
>>> integration (the European Patent Office).
>>>
>>> However, the topic of artists as inventors is focused on the
>>> relationship between the roles and practices that are conjured by
>>> the
>>> terms. To this end, I will share comments on the subject by the
>>> artist
>>> Jakob Fenger, who is a member of Superflex, which invented (with Jan
>>> Mallan) a biogas system. In a conversation via Skype on 12 February
>>> 2009, Fenger told me that "all good artists are inventors," adding
>>> that "a concept for a piece is like an invention," and that in his
>>> opinion there is "no difference between inventing and art-making,"
>>> referencing the creative process as the link between these two
>>> activities.
>>>
>>> I look forward to a lively discussion on the topic of artists as
>>> inventors throughout March.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Robert Thill
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>
>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>
>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
>>> subscribe to.
>>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
>>> name,
>>> and
>>> password in the fields found further down the page.
>>>
>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
>>> enter
>>> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked.
>>> Click on
>>> the
>>> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>>>
>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
>>> "Set
>>> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>
>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>
>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
>> subscribe to. In
>> the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
>> name, and
>> password in the fields found further down the page.
>>
>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
>> enter your
>> e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on
>> the
>> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>>
>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
>> "Set
>> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
> subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-
> mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down
> the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
> asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear
> ("options page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
