From my time as a A Fine Art (Painting) student in the early 1970s
at Camberwell, School of Art and Crafts, there are two lectures that
still stand out for their relevance and sheer excitement - Marc
Chaimowicz on Survival and Buckminster Fuller on just about
everything else! I am, also, a great fan of Fritjof Capra, so I'm
very pleased that you found so much to resonate with my brief
contribution. The one dissonant chord, for me, is 'biomimicry'. I
attended a lecture by Janine Benyus four years ago and was appalled
by the fundamental lack of understanding of ecology and ecosystemic
thinking. To be honest, it is (as the ad says) 'what it says on the
tin' - bio mimicry - and simply copies and exploits 'natural'
processes to design anthropocentric commercial products. However, it
does permit itself to be confused with providing good other than
financial profit (i.e. benefit biodiversity), so unless it has
developed anything different recently, I see biomimicry as hyped
marketing for industrial design, based on what we already knew, but
may have forgotten.
All the best
David
On 3 Mar 2009, at 22:22, david mcconville wrote:
> David,
>
> Your post is a great reminder of the critical link between our
> individual and collective cosmologies/paradigms/worldviews and the
> inventions we create. This is explicitly demonstrated and
> documented in the works of prolific polymath R. Buckminster Fuller,
> who's "Comprehensive Anticipatory Design Science" approach ia, like
> the Hindu concept of rta, predicated on an understanding of the
> micro-macro functionings of the cosmos. The recent Whitney
> retrospective of his works provided an opening for many design
> magazines to discuss the nexus of design, science, and innovation,
> and the pragmatic utility of the design science approach continues
> to be reflected in the numerous submissions to the ongoing
> Challenge named in Fuller's honor, which has many submissions from
> artists (see links below).
>
> Of course Fuller's approach is closely aligned with the concept of
> biomimcry, which involved turning to nature's multi-billion year
> design investigations for inspiration. This starkly illustrates the
> connection between design processes and worldview - in this case an
> ecological one - which Fritjof Capra suggests is a function of
> comprehending issues of complexity, emergence, and mutual causality
> that are at the center of current paradigmatic shifts in science.
> In Web of Life Capra proposes that many of the challenges facing
> humanity "must be seen as just different facets of one single
> crisis, which is largely a crisis of perception." A crisis he
> asserts - echoing Fuller - must be addressed by enhanced
> comprehension of the working of natural systems.
>
> I believe artistic approaches are essential not only developing new
> ecologically-minded innovations, but also for communicating the
> broader cosmological and scientific issues that contextualize
> comprehensive / anticipatory / design-oriented / emergent /
> complex/ system-oriented strategies and investigations.
>
> cheers,
> david
>
> Related links:
>
> The Buckminster Fuller Challenge Idea Index
> http://challenge.bfi.org/ideaindex
>
> The Whitney's Buckminster Fuller: Starting with Universe
> http://www.whitney.org/www/buckminster_fuller/about.jsp
>
> Fuller's patents
> http://bfi.org/node/75
>
> Capra's Principles of Ecology
> http://www.ecoliteracy.org/education/principles_of_ecology.html
>
> Database of biomimicry inventions
> http://www.biomimicry.net
>
> RISD's Nature Lab featured in I.D.
> http://www.id-mag.com/article/risd/
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> david mcconville
> director, noospheric research division
> http://www.elumenati.com
>
> On Mar 3, 2009, at 9:39 AM, David Haley wrote:
>
>> In many parts of India, women 'perform' Rangoli every morning.
>> Rangoli is a popular form of art, usually drawn with sand on the
>> threshold to the home. Although the images are often very
>> intricate and magnificent, this 'art' and act of worship is swept
>> away and renewed each day. Another word, still spoken in
>> contemporary Hindi according to Vandana Shiva, comes from the Rig
>> Vedas and is the route of the word 'art', via the Greek word,
>> 'erete', is 'rta'. Rta means the dynamic process by which the
>> whole cosmos continues to be created, virtuously.
>>
>> Says something about different value systems?
>>
>> All the best
>> David
>>
>> On 3 Mar 2009, at 00:53, robert.thill@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting and vivid points, Murat.
>>>
>>> I think the short answer to part of your final statement that "there
>>> should be some sort of a right protection process involved within
>>> the
>>> art world" is that copyrights can provide protection for art.
>>>
>>> Since the topic of this discussion was partially inspired by the
>>> book
>>> "Artists as Inventors / Inventors as Artists" (eds. Dieter
>>> Daniels and
>>> [discussant] Barbara U. Schmidt), I thought I would draw on an
>>> idea in
>>> the text to bring out an aspect of the topic you have raised.
>>>
>>> In the introduction a kind of conclusion is reached that there
>>> "exists
>>> no mirror-image symmetry between the social roles of the artist and
>>> the inventor." The example given to illustrate the point is a quote
>>> from Billy Klüver: "But if a person says he or she is an artist, one
>>> can't say to that person: 'You are not an artist.' You are not
>>> allowed
>>> to say that." The text makes the point that "this popular
>>> understanding of the term means that being an artist resists
>>> external
>>> definition, whereas the label 'inventor,' though indeed not the
>>> designation of a profession per se, can nevertheless be
>>> substantiated
>>> by means of objective criteria such as patents." (p. 12-13).
>>>
>>> While this set of relationships is framed in popular
>>> understandings of
>>> roles and brings up a key point in the book's thesis (and the text
>>> also warns us about generalizations here), it omits the fact that an
>>> artist does have an objective criteria to substantiate his or her
>>> role
>>> and work, which is a copyright. Copyright is the artist's equivalent
>>> to an inventor's patent. (This statement is not meant to imply that
>>> there are not inventors and artists who don't participate in
>>> these two
>>> systems or who particularly value them in terms of their own
>>> self-definitions.)
>>>
>>> However, if what I write is accurate and these are indeed two
>>> objective ways in which artists and inventors can substantiate their
>>> work and roles, the more revealing question might be why are
>>> these two
>>> systems of intellectual property protection so distinctly different?
>>> Why are the terms and values not reciprocal? And should they be?
>>>
>>> The artist Lisa Schmitz has explored this contradiction by
>>> proposing,
>>> in 1993, a new institution to be named the World Artistic Property
>>> Organization (WAPO), which would operate as a patent-office
>>> equivalent
>>> for art ideas.
>>>
>>> Here is a section of a text that I wrote about the WAPO project
>>> with a
>>> link to the online version (I have stripped out the endnotes).
>>>
>>> "Most directly, the WAPO installation pondered the distinctions
>>> between art and invention through the differences in the legal
>>> protections of copyright and patents, asking who benefits from the
>>> disparities and how artists might begin a constructive dialogue
>>> about
>>> how to protect art from exploitative appropriation. Phase two of the
>>> WAPO project, which was carried out in Linz in 1995, included
>>> collaboration with Norbert Nowotsch and Mark Olson and explored the
>>> creation of a Web-based platform and repository for the
>>> documentation
>>> and disclosure of art ideas. A supplementary text about the WAPO
>>> proposed the act of bartering as a potential way of exposing the
>>> underpinnings of ownership and valuation to better understand
>>> communication, meaning, and agreement in relation to exchange
>>> value."
>>>
>>> Schmitz's project also explored the concept of self-ownership.
>>>
>>> Please explore the site, especially the history of the project.
>>> WAPO, http://www01.zkm.de/~wapo/index.html.
>>>
>>> I have asked Lisa Schmitz to join our discussion on YASMIN and she
>>> will come online toward the end of the week.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/2/09, murat germen <muratgermen@sabanciuniv.edu> wrote:
>>>> i would like to add couple of things...
>>>>
>>>> contemporary conceptual art rests heavily on ideas as we know. it's
>>>> not the craft in the work but the idea usually that makes the work
>>>> valuable these days (i personally value craft as well, in
>>>> addition to
>>>> "the" idea by the way). art market is an amazingly active
>>>> market, even
>>>> in the days of economical crisis the amount of sales and
>>>> activity is
>>>> surprisingly substantial. the simple equation goes like this: art
>>>> depends on idea, art has a market value, then artistic idea has a
>>>> market value too (sometimes millions of dollars) and it has to be
>>>> legally protected somehow.
>>>>
>>>> i visited paris photo last year, japan was the guest country.
>>>> there is
>>>> one japanese photographer (among others) that i really like;
>>>> hiroshi
>>>> sugimoto. he is especially known with some very minimal seascapes
>>>> (http://www.sugimotohiroshi.com/seascape.html
>>>> ). sugimoto sells very well, i saw a photo from the seascape series
>>>> which was around 70.000 euros and it had 5 red dots on it. when
>>>> i was
>>>> walking through thousands of images, one seascape photo caught my
>>>> attention in another booth and it looked very much like a sugimoto
>>>> photo. i approached to see details, saw it was somebody else's and
>>>> felt pretty awkward. this particular style is sugimoto's
>>>> signature, it
>>>> is in a way a reserved slot in these circles and producing
>>>> something
>>>> very similar to it, is taking advantage of the commercial
>>>> potential of
>>>> the particular expression style. yes, everybody can take sea
>>>> photos;
>>>> but there are tons of other ways to deal with sea and water...
>>>>
>>>> i am not claiming at all that artistic idea is a more worthwhile
>>>> invention than other "types" of inventions that made our lives more
>>>> easy, pleasant, rich, etc.; but artistic creation, though not
>>>> indispensable and vital, is something that can make our lives
>>>> different, enjoyable, excited at times. since creation is directly
>>>> linked with idea, there should be some sort of a right protection
>>>> process involved within the art world. but i cannot at this moment
>>>> propose a particular protection system since i am not
>>>> knowledgeable at
>>>> all in law...
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>> murat
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <<< +90 532 473 8970 (gsm mobile)
>>>> <<< muratgermen@gmail.com
>>>> <<< http://www.muratgermen.com
>>>> <<< http://www.flickr.com/photos/muratgermen/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 01.Mar.2009, at 23:52, robert.thill@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your comments, Bronac.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, conceptual art practices and patents are not the same
>>>>> thing. I
>>>>> hope that my introduction did not confuse or conflate them.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my statement, I began by describing my area of research,
>>>>> which is
>>>>> the intersections between patents and contemporary art.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the paragraph about artist as inventors, I do not mention
>>>>> patents.
>>>>> The series of quotes by the artist Jakob Fenger of Superflex
>>>>> speak to
>>>>> parallels between inventing and art-making; he is not referring to
>>>>> patents. His comments address our discussion's topic of artists as
>>>>> inventors, which he links through creativity.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, I will add here that Superflex did secure patents for
>>>>> their
>>>>> biogas system. Nevertheless, according to Fenger, it was not
>>>>> intentionally an integral part of the work's concept. The driving
>>>>> force for Superflex's patenting was to engage investors in their
>>>>> project. At that time (about a decade ago), investors were
>>>>> demanding
>>>>> an intellectual property position. In an e-mail message on 3
>>>>> February
>>>>> 2009, Fenger describes the situation and references the related
>>>>> shift
>>>>> in their newer work, which engages intellectual property from a
>>>>> significantly different vantage point, he wrote: "If we were to
>>>>> start
>>>>> out developing the biogas system today, we work quite differently
>>>>> ('copy-shop,' 'free beer,' 'copy right,' etc.) and we do not
>>>>> see any
>>>>> thread in people copying our system."
>>>>>
>>>>> I am glad to offer examples of artworks that deliberately
>>>>> attempt to
>>>>> integrate patent and art concepts as the discussion continues.
>>>>> I also
>>>>> think the idea of examining the role of design is interesting.
>>>>> However, as we begin the dialogue, I think it might be
>>>>> productive to
>>>>> keep the discussion more broadly on the topic of artists as
>>>>> inventors.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/1/09, Bronac Ferran <bronacferran@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Interesting discussion and I would like to add some comments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it is quite provocative and dangerous to conflate
>>>>>> conceptual art
>>>>>> practice with the notion of a patent (which is a legal device)
>>>>>> or a
>>>>>> trademark (similar).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I attended a talk with a representative of Superflex a few weeks
>>>>>> ago at
>>>>>> South London Gallery which also had a lawyer who has done some
>>>>>> great work
>>>>>> with radical art - Daniel McClean. Some of these issues and
>>>>>> questions were
>>>>>> covered but at no stage was there a straightforward conflation of
>>>>>> patenting
>>>>>> with concepts - obviously what Superflex have done is go beyond
>>>>>> concept into
>>>>>> production of goods and services for sale which of course then
>>>>>> leads into
>>>>>> realisation of objects within a market (with all the legal
>>>>>> systems
>>>>>> thereby
>>>>>> implied).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope that some of the parsing apart of this kind of conflation
>>>>>> can be
>>>>>> activated within the process of this Yasmin discussion - and that
>>>>>> we may
>>>>>> also put a finger on some examples where artistic 'invention' has
>>>>>> led to
>>>>>> patenting (as the list is very small at present). We should also
>>>>>> take into
>>>>>> account the role of design which has a much clearer and much more
>>>>>> straightforward relationship, here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> all best wishes
>>>>>> Bronac
>>>>>> www.boundaryobject.org .
>>>>>> http://uk.youtube.com/iderca
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2009/3/1 <robert.thill@gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Yasminers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wish to thank Roger Malina for the opportunity to moderate the
>>>>>>> discussion on artists as inventors and our six accomplished
>>>>>>> discussants for their participation: Derek Hales, Sylvie
>>>>>>> Lacerte,
>>>>>>> Arantxa Mendiharat, Hideki Nakazawa, Barbara U. Schmidt, and
>>>>>>> Colette
>>>>>>> Tron.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My interest in artists as inventors stems from my curiosity
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> intersections between contemporary art and utility patents. I
>>>>>>> discovered through research that this seemingly narrow
>>>>>>> terrain was
>>>>>>> actually an expansive area, which could encompass a wide
>>>>>>> range of
>>>>>>> practices that went far beyond artists' patents. For
>>>>>>> instance, it
>>>>>>> could include elements as diverse as the novel achievements
>>>>>>> of an
>>>>>>> innovator whose self-patent works were reclassified as
>>>>>>> "visionary"
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> "outsider" art (William W. Adkins) and a patent institution that
>>>>>>> collects contemporary art and displays it in the workplace
>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>> progressive idea of stimulating discussion, productivity, and
>>>>>>> integration (the European Patent Office).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, the topic of artists as inventors is focused on the
>>>>>>> relationship between the roles and practices that are
>>>>>>> conjured by
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> terms. To this end, I will share comments on the subject by the
>>>>>>> artist
>>>>>>> Jakob Fenger, who is a member of Superflex, which invented
>>>>>>> (with Jan
>>>>>>> Mallan) a biogas system. In a conversation via Skype on 12
>>>>>>> February
>>>>>>> 2009, Fenger told me that "all good artists are inventors,"
>>>>>>> adding
>>>>>>> that "a concept for a piece is like an invention," and that
>>>>>>> in his
>>>>>>> opinion there is "no difference between inventing and art-
>>>>>>> making,"
>>>>>>> referencing the creative process as the link between these two
>>>>>>> activities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I look forward to a lively discussion on the topic of artists as
>>>>>>> inventors throughout March.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert Thill
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>> David Haley BA(Hons) MA FRSA
>>
>> Senior Research Fellow
>> Director, A&E [art&ecology] research unit
>> MA Art As Environment Programme Leader
>> SEA: Social & Environmental Arts Research Centre
>> MIRIAD
>> Manchester Metropolitan University
>> Righton Building, Cavendish Street,
>> Manchester M15 6 BG
>>
>> T: +44 (0)161 247 1093
>> F: +44 (0)161 2476870
>> M: 07725 405 365
>> W: www.artdes.mmu.ac.uk/profile/dhaley
>> W: www.miriad.mmu.ac.uk/artandecology
>>
>>
>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you
>> should read the Manchester Metropolitan University's email
>> disclaimer available on its website
>> http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer "
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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David Haley BA(Hons) MA FRSA
Senior Research Fellow
Director, A&E [art&ecology] research unit
MA Art As Environment Programme Leader
SEA: Social & Environmental Arts Research Centre
MIRIAD
Manchester Metropolitan University
Righton Building, Cavendish Street,
Manchester M15 6 BG
T: +44 (0)161 247 1093
F: +44 (0)161 2476870
M: 07725 405 365
W: www.artdes.mmu.ac.uk/profile/dhaley
W: www.miriad.mmu.ac.uk/artandecology
"Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you
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