both becoming new media! That's a brilliant statement you made. And I
think that with reference to Mcluen, he was more right than even he
probably envisioned at the time of his medium is the message statement.
Jared
On 12/7/2010 4:18 AM, roger malina wrote:
> Jared, Jason
>
> In response to this craft/vision discussion, I would like to inject
> a transverse issue
>
> Last weekend I went to the Universals in Music conference here
> in Aix en Provence
> http://www.imera.fr/images/stories/PDF/musical_universals_program.pdf
>
> There was much interesting discussion connecting musicology,
> sociology, neurobiology and cognitive science= and the ideological
> linking of 'universals' to western colonialism seemed to dissipate with
> the new emerging discussions in the cognitive sciences, computational
> linguistics, and new anthropology
>
> One if the ideas that came up is that the brain probably functions
> with a continuum of systems that go from oral and written language
> to poetry to music rather than discrete functions the way we label them -
> and that all of these are embodied- there was some discussion of
> pre-natal cognition and the way babies construct all these various
> communication strategies that range over the various kinds of
> literary, musical, dance and performance- through interaction
> with their mother before the age of three
>
> Perhaps one of the interesting things with 'new media poetry' is that
> it provides new way of integrating diverse communicational modes-
> that cross the boxes that we have put various kinds of artistic expression
> in- opera and other multi media forms of course do this
>
> This gets me back to mcluhan and the medium is the message issue=
> that oral poetry, written poetry and new media poetry in their
> very structure carry with them certain 'visions' that are privileged over
> others- which drives differing aesthetic agendas
>
> The scientific poetry of the nineteenth century that Lambert brought
> up is maybe inconceivable in new media poetry because its tied
> to the written literature that created both science and poetry at the time ?
>
> 21st century Science is becoming new media, so is poetry
>
> roger
>
> On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 5:42 AM, Jared Smith<smithjrw@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Jason,
>>
>> After visiting your site and thinking about it for a bit, I feel my earlier
>> response was well-intentioned but inadequate. I think now that you were
>> asking why there is tension between traditional poets and poets who work
>> with digital methodologies, particularly with regard to the digital
>> structural work you have designed.
>>
>> It's a novel and intricately structured concept as you lay it out on your
>> website and on your YouTube video. There are in traditional poetry almost
>> two basic schools of thought: those that think the craft (structuring) of
>> the poem is most important; and those who conversely feel that the vision
>> carried within that craft is what is most important. For those who see
>> craft as most important in traditional poetry (sonnets, sestinas, etc.,)
>> your form should be exciting and welcome as a new way to contain vision. I
>> expect that many will be interested. For those who are more concerned with
>> the Vision communication aspect, it will come slower because a number of
>> them may feel that you are not really doing away with linearity with the
>> structure, but are supplying data sets than can be interchanged just as
>> sensory stimulus interchanges in the world we experience: these Vision type
>> poets are likely to feel that what is most important in poetry is for the
>> poet to know from his/her own vision which set of images/responses to offer
>> rather than offer a menu for the reader to manipulate.
>>
>> Ultimately, of course, what matters is finding the best vehicle for what you
>> (the poet) wishes to convey, or for what you wish to use words for. I
>> would like to experience how you have delivered some of your finished poems
>> using the technique you talk about. you give me much to think about, and I
>> have shared your thoughts with others, who may contact you as well.
>>
>> Jared
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/5/2010 11:27 PM, Jason Nelson wrote:
>>> I'm really curious as to the list's impressions of digital poetry.
>>> Inherently digital poetry lives within the intersection of science and
>>> poetry. Indeed it is an evolution of poetic ideas and expressions,
>>> poetry unleashed from the artificial contraints of linearity and
>>> -mono-dimensionality. So for example most of my works at
>>> http://www.heliozoa.com explore how to recreate poetry within a
>>> variety of complex interactions and orgranizations. And yet there is
>>> certainly a conflict between the print/spoken word poet and the
>>> digital creator.
>>>
>>> Why is this? Or not? Any thoughts?
>>>
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