Beuys believed everybody was an artist, he once said
"every sphere of human activity, Even peeling a potato can be a work of art
as long as it is a conscious act".
There are no sloppy in ur wording :
UrSonate by Kurt Schwitters performed by Steven Schick and Shahrokh Yadegari
rkarre 24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGdR0tCVqig
Best,
Avi.
-----Original Message-----
From: yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr
[mailto:yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr] On Behalf Of Simon
Biggs
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 11:34 AM
To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
Hi Jared
I don't think there was anything sloppy in my wording. It is a narrow
conception of poetry (or art) which cannot accept that anything has the
potential to be poetry. Within such a narrow definition only a fraction of
what many poets, artists, readers/viewers, critics and theorists consider to
be poetry, or the poetic principle in action, would qualify as poetry. The
work of Gertrude Stein would often fail such a test, not to mention that of
Dick Higgins, Mez or Alan Sondheim. Where would the work of Y0ung-Hae Chang
Heavy Industries or mIEKAL aND be?
If it is accepted that the above authors do produce poetry and poetry can be
many things, encompassing that which is both intentionally and
unintentionally what it is, then Mein Kampf or Jihad can be considered as
poetry - in context.
Take Stockhausen's comments on 9/11. He is quoted to have said he thought it
"the biggest work of art there has ever been" (see below for quote in
context). Stockhausen was objectively wrong, in that there have been bigger
works of art, but that does not invalidate the point he was making. By
suggesting that flying planes into buildings can be a work of art, where the
people responsible for this act probably did not consider what they were
doing art, he is proposing a definition of art similar to Duchamp, who
converted a urinal to a sculpture by signing the porcelain and enacting the
performative of the artist's signature. Martin Creed's crumpled piece of
paper evokes a similar principle, where it is recognised that it is the
context something is encountered within that determines its status and
value.
These, and many other, artists understand that it is context, the
relationships between things, that make things be - and it is in these
relations that the poetic principle is to be found and where poetry derives.
The argument here is that poetry is not a thing, not an artefact, but the
identification of the relationships which make things become. Those
relations are intentionally poetry when somebody consciously manipulates
them to produce an instability that reveals their inherent poetic dynamics.
Often that involves little more than a slight shift of the framework within
which we encounter things. The best artists tend to use the most economical
of means. However, intent need not be what defines something as poetry.
I don't know if Hitler thought he was writing poetry when he drafted Mein
Kampf. It can be argued that Hitler's intent was neither here nor there in
determining whether that text is poetry. The condition of the text depends
on its reception which in turn is a condition of context. To discuss that in
full is another subject (intertextuality), concerning how meaning is made.
My main point here is that Stockhausen suggests how Jihad, its rhetoric and
its enacting, can be poetry. I hope that the citation helps avoid
sloppiness.
Best
Simon
The full quote from Stockhausen:
"Well, what happened there is, of course&lsqauo;now all of you must adjust your
brains&lsqauo;the biggest work of art there has ever been. The fact that spirits
achieve with one act something which we in music could never dream of, that
people practise ten years madly, fanatically for a concert. And then die.
And that is the greatest work of art that exists for the whole Cosmos. Just
imagine what happened there. There are people who are so concentrated on
this single performance, and then five thousand people are driven to
Resurrection. In one moment. I couldn't do that. Compared to that, we are
nothing, as composers. [...] It is a crime, you know of course, because the
people did not agree to it. They did not come to the "concert". That is
obvious. And nobody had told them: "You could be killed in the process."
(Stockhausen in interview, Hamburg September 16, 2001).
On 15/12/2010 19:27, "Jared Smith" <smithjrw@comcast.net> wrote:
> The problem with broad definitions is that they communicate nothing:
> they lack the discipline and direction that you require of science and
> technology. That is why poetry lacks the kind of respect disciplined
> science receives, and harking back on our converation, why a poet
> cannot get a lunch for his poems but a scientist can. Oppenheimer
> would not have called Mein Kampf a poem, nor would he have called
> Jihad a poem--though there are rhetorical and oratorical devices within
each.
> You are being sloppy in your wording.
>
> Jared
>
>
>
> On 12/13/2010 6:49 AM, Simon Biggs wrote:
>> A poem that starts a war can be called an info-bomb. I like to employ
>> a broad definition of poetry and poetics. Main Kampf has its poetic
elements.
>>
>> So does the rhetoric of Jihad. Perhaps even more so. Arabic is an
>> intrinsically evocative language. These are poems that start wars.
>>
>> Anything can be a weapon and what was intended as a weapon can be
anything.
>>
>> I thought that was the point of a flower in the barrel of a gun, or
>> the famous lyric of the Beatles:
>>
>> Happiness (is a warm gun)
>> Bang Bang Shoot Shoot
>> Happiness (is a warm gun, momma)
>> Bang Bang Shoot Shoot
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13/12/2010 07:25, "Paul Hertz"<ignotus@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Jared,
>>>
>>> Let me see if I understand. Psalm 137 ("By the waters of Babylon we
>>> sat down and wept"), a beautiful poem of longing and exile, which ends:
>>>
>>> "Oh daughter of Babylon, you devastator!
>>> Happy shall he be who requites you
>>> with what you have done to us!
>>> Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against
>>> the rock!"
>>>
>>> would evidently be a "lower" form of art, since it clearly seeks to
>>> draw on the passions of the people to whom it is addressed and ends
>>> with what looks pretty unequivocally like a call to infanticide.
>>>
>>> You say that a poem has never started a war. If starting a war is
>>> matter of pulling triggers (or notching arrows, or dropping bombs) I
>>> suppose a poem never did this. A poem also never made lunch. But
>>> poetry and all other art is formed by the society in which it
>>> arises. Poems and language propagate the values of the cultures that
produce them.
>>>
>>> If the Iliad glories in war, does it not then also have a
>>> responsibility in continuing wars? It may not immediately incite its
>>> listeners to take up arms, but it certainly propagates in them the
>>> core beliefs of a society, including the notion that war is heroic.
>>> We could well hold it guilty of starting many wars, just through
>>> propagating that one great lie "war is heroic."
>>>
>>> It is only our distance from the culture from which the Iliad sprang
>>> that allows us to consider it dispassionately, as what I suppose you
>>> may mean by "higher" art. Otherwise, we'd hear it as part of our own
>>> education as warriors or as mothers and wives of warriors. It is a
>>> great poem not because it is not calculated to incite the passions
>>> and lead people in a particular direction, but for the grandeur and
>>> scope of the language through which it does that very thing.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you conceive of "lower" poetry as that which is specifically
>>> intended as an instrument to incite, rather like a military march or
>>> a patriotic painting. Well, certainly there is a lot of "official"
>>> art that is truly bad, but I contend that that there is also plenty
>>> of great art that does incite, and quite consciously. So yes,
>>> perhaps a poem never started a war, but some poems keep war going.
>>> And occasionally a poem pays for lunch, in the style of Cyrano de
Bergerac.
>>>
>>> The notion that it is desirable that a poem might "lie beyond such
concerns"
>>> as inciting passion or action is itself a cultural attitude, and not
>>> something inherent in poetry as practiced through the ages. You may
>>> prefer poems that reflect that attitude or allow you to practice it,
>>> but that does not mean there is one cultural stream of "true" or
>>> "high" art producing dispassionate poetry and another of "low" or
"false" art ruled by passion.
>>>
>>> Perhaps I misconstrue what you mean by these dichotomies of
>>> true/false or high/low, but in any case they strike me as implying a
>>> value judgment that I don't believe I share. I rather think I prefer
>>> poems that attempt to sway me. I enjoy being swayed, all the more if
>>> the workings of poetic language do so with a subtlety I can only
decipher after the swaying.
>>>
>>> There are only choices about how to use language, not choices about
>>> its outcomes. By its very refusal to take sides, a dispassionate
>>> poem may be complicit in social evils--or it may open the way to
>>> settle a dispute. We may choose to use language passionately or
>>> dispassionately, to express our desire for peace, for war, for
>>> quietude or for lunch. We have done so for ages. There are no guarantees
that language will have the effect we desire.
>>> It's that malleable. For better or worse, we ourselves are that
malleable.
>>> We make our choices and hope for the best.
>>>
>>> best regards,
>>>
>>> -- Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Jared Smith<smithjrw@comcast.net>
wrote:
>>>
>>>> Paul,
>>>>
>>>> I would agree with most of what you say, and hope that you have not
>>>> labeled me as one who would claim that poetry and art are
>>>> "Innocent." Indeed, they are not. In speaking of true of false
>>>> art, I meant to speak of false art as that which is consciously
>>>> inspired or calculated to incite a particular reaction by drawing
>>>> upon the passions of a people and leading them in a chosen
>>>> direction--to war or to peace or wherever. Perhaps rather than
>>>> calling that a false art, I would have been clearer if I had called
>>>> it a "lower" art or poetry. A "higher" art of poetry, or as I
>>>> unfortunately termed it, a "true" poetry would be that which is as
>>>> you say "not innocent"
>>>> and not guilty, but partakes from all that is about us and brings
>>>> all that it can perceive to bear on its experience. It is not
>>>> innocent nor guilty, but lies outside and beyond such concerns.
>>>>
>>>> I think that we are in agreement on that, and that it is only the
>>>> short responses one is generally allowed in email discussions that
>>>> may have confused that issue--at least that my short response may have
confused it.
>>>>
>>>> What I was trying to address in Ramon's email, however, was that
>>>> neither art nor poetry start wars--and in fact, I believe they
>>>> guard against wars because of their inclusion and giving voice to
>>>> the feelings and passions of the people who create them within the
>>>> society. I might simply have said in response to Ramon that Poetry
>>>> is very powerful. But if one thinks it causes wars, one is greatly
>>>> overestimating of misunderstanding that power. I challenge anyone
>>>> to name a war that was started by a poem.
>>>>
>>>> Jared
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/7/2010 3:39 PM, Paul Hertz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for the late entry, but I can't let this go unchallenged.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ramon Guardans said: "science and poetry are also indispensable
>>>>> components of all massacres, wars and monstrosities that the human
>>>>> group is putting together today and has in the course of history."
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is only to say that culture is not innocent. If it
>>>>> pretends to
>>>>>
>>>>> *represent* all of human experience--and it does--then it seems to
>>>>> me that it must *partake* of all human experience, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> And how can we ascribe innocence to poetry, art, science or any
>>>>> other cultural manifestation we create if we cannot ascribe it to
>>>>> ourselves? I put it to you that no person is innocent: however
>>>>> much we attach the symbology of innocence to babies, women,
>>>>> clouds, souls, poetry or painting, each symbol and each reality
>>>>> remains stubbornly a part of society as a whole.
>>>>> There is no innocence apart. There are choices that lead to peace
>>>>> and dialog and there are choices that lead to lies and
>>>>> degradation, but once we claim our place in human society there
>>>>> are no choices that lead to innocence, any
>>>>>
>>>>> more than there are social movements that will take us home to utopia.
>>>>> There
>>>>> are only choices that will improve our collective lives or make
>>>>> them worse,
>>>>>
>>>>> and art may lie in helping us to distinguish them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Art is stained with living--or it isn't very good art.
>>>>>
>>>>> I imagine that Ernesto Cardenal spoke in this spirit when he
>>>>> declared that the poet "defends the people through language." Not
>>>>> because he offered innocence in his poems, but because he was
>>>>> ready to commit to living his choices through his words.
>>>>>
>>>>> And this undoubtedly means that art sometimes offers bad choices,
>>>>> aesthetics of death, celebrations of infamy. I have only to
>>>>> contemplate the several poetic traditions Ramon Menendez-Pidal
>>>>> gathered in his *Flor Nueva de Romances Viejas*, a wonderful
>>>>> anthology of medieval romances from Spain, to
>>>>>
>>>>> realize that there is great art coming out of bitter conflict, and
>>>>> taking sides in such a way that the hero among the Mozarabes may
>>>>> be the villain among the Christians, and vice-versa. You may say
>>>>> these poems are only innocent tales--as though history in any form
>>>>> could be innocent--but may I suggest that they are both high art
>>>>> and poisoned by murderous, fratricidal war? They may not stir blood to
anger now, but I'd wager once they did.
>>>>> No, you won't get away with claiming some special innocence for
>>>>> art, especially if it requires you make distinctions between false
>>>>> and true art.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is art that reaches out to us, as you say, but there is also
>>>>> art that
>>>>>
>>>>> intends to stir our rage. Trying to cage it in a "true/false"
>>>>> dichotomy will not suffice. It is language itself, the very
>>>>> material of which both your true and false poetry are made, that
>>>>> bears the stain. This holds, too, of other arts, though they do no
>>>>> operate with words. The compromise with communication is the
>>>>> compromise to be misunderstood, to be wrong, and to even to commit
>>>>> criminal acts. Art is many things, but it is not innocent.
>>>>> I
>>>>>
>>>>> dare say the same of science.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, if you ask me whether I believe that artists and musicians
>>>>> and poets are generally striving for peace and understanding--if
>>>>> you ask me whether I
>>>>>
>>>>> believe that culture offers a pathway for human beings to learn to
>>>>> live together--well, I will answer with a resounding YES. But is
>>>>> not at all the same as ascribing innocence to art.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think Ramon is spot on when he says that science and poetry are
>>>>> compromised not only with those aspects of culture that we hold to
>>>>> be positive, but with the negative as well. That is certainly how
>>>>> I read what he wrote. I really don't think we can study or perform
>>>>> art or science in all their depth and breadth without that
>>>>> realization. Without that realization,
>>>>>
>>>>> our choices of what we believe science and art should do into the
>>>>> future cannot be made as they must be made--with eyes open.
>>>>>
>>>>> My apologies to the apologists of innocence if I give offense,
>>>>> but, worthy people, you are mistaken if you think art or science are
innocent.
>>>>>
>>>>> best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Jared Smith<smithjrw@comcast.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ramon,
>>>>>> Science may take part in the formation of warfare, as for example
>>>>>> in the creation of some of Leonardo's machines of war. But the
>>>>>> scientific process itself has never driven war. And certainly
>>>>>> poetry in its true definition, which includes communication of
>>>>>> full thought and not just passionate egotism, has NEVER driven
>>>>>> war. U.S. Poet Laureate Ted Kooser has said that the foremost
>>>>>> purpose of poetry is to communicate with people--and I would add
>>>>>> that it is to communicate in ways that are outside our limited
>>>>>> commercial language. Probably 98% of the words we say each day
>>>>>> equate to "what can I buy from you?" or "What will you trade me
>>>>>> for...?" Poetry takes the vastness beyond those words, yet still
>>>>>> contained within our language, and uses them to explore other
>>>>>> issues that we perhaps feel more deeply though we don't discuss
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> False poetry--rhetoric/oratory--may be used to drive armies and
>>>>>> false ideas. We must as a culture understand, however, that
>>>>>> there is a difference between false poetry --often passion or
>>>>>> hate-driven egotism--and real poetry that reaches out to that
>>>>>> which is larger. We make that distinction in philosophy and have
>>>>>> since Plato discussed rhetoricians and philosophers as being two
>>>>>> different types of people with different goals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Art--certainly poetic art--is a transcendent and inclusive
>>>>>> process conducted within oneself and perhaps later shared with
>>>>>> others. It does not lead to war.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jared
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/2/2010 12:52 AM, ramon guardans wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One point that sould be noted is that as much as science and
>>>>>> poetry
>>>>>>> interact and overlap in the production of beauty and positive
>>>>>>> social constructions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> science and poetry are also indispensable components of all
>>>>>>> massacres, wars and monstrosities that the human group is
>>>>>>> putting together today and has in the course of history
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the construction of spurious certitudes, nationalism and
>>>>>>> fanaticism rely on wine and poetry, but you can substitute the
>>>>>>> wine by other substances, the need-use of science and technology
>>>>>>> to amplify killing power does not need to be ellaborated
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there anything practical that can be said or done about this
>>>>>>> relation?, One thing i would say is that in the future it might
>>>>>>> be wise to pay more attention to the unpoetic and very effective
>>>>>>> stategies of ignorance technology, te deliberate and industrial
>>>>>>> production of unknowledge, confusion and fear
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Currently and in history much work, poetic and scientific has
>>>>>>> been devoted to produce and difuse ignorance, prejudice and
>>>>>>> confusion, this could be adressed and one way to proceed is by
>>>>>>> including forms of quality control , sort of cheks on the
>>>>>>> validity and logic of statements and propositions, science and
>>>>>>> poetry have proven to be able to do that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cordially
>>>>>>> r
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 12/1/10, Jared Smith<smithjrw@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Jared Smith<smithjrw@comcast.net>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art,
>>>>>>>> POETRY
>>>>>>>> To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 4:32 PM Hi, Vitor and other
>>>>>>>> Yasminers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What a fascinating conversation this is developing into! Your
>>>>>>>> contribution here, Vitor, opens up the whole question of
>>>>>>>> thought processes in poetry and the languages that represent
>>>>>>>> those processes. Of course, on the most basic surface level,
>>>>>>>> some of us may be most comfortable conversing in Italian or
>>>>>>>> French or English or any other language native to a particular
>>>>>>>> country or region. At a somewhat deeper level, we may be more
>>>>>>>> comfortable conversing in light beams or music or mathematical
>>>>>>>> symbols All of these symbols are, of course, just that:
>>>>>>>> symbols that stand for the concrete statements we make or the
>>>>>>>> meditations we set out upon. And David Morley's "Mathematics of
>>>>>>>> Light" is a wonderful example of how one set of symbols may be
>>>>>>>> merged within another. In our time, especially, one can do
>>>>>>>> this with images that are complete pictures, as with digital
>>>>>>>> poems and their interfaces, as Jason Nelson has just discussed
>>>>>>>> in his post. The shadows of Plato's cave wall take on depth
>>>>>>>> and become more interactive. And perhaps Knowledge
>>>>>>>> (science) is allowed the chance to become closer to Art than to
>>>>>>>> Craft--fact and not pretense?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But the empty page, in any case, is what all these languages
>>>>>>>> line their symbols down on. I wonder if there is value to
>>>>>>>> thinking of the empty page as a scaffolding which symbols of
>>>>>>>> whatever sort that compose a unity may be laid down. The
>>>>>>>> symbols are statements. The scaffolding is the blank space
>>>>>>>> across which those symbols play out--giving them nonlinear
>>>>>>>> depth and meaning because we don't know how deep that space is
>>>>>>>> or what its shape is. Nor does the mind try to measure the
>>>>>>>> size of the paper or its infinitude. The mind does something
>>>>>>>> else: it experiences the unknown space and makes of it what it
>>>>>>>> will. It turns the finite into one or more possible
>>>>>>>> definitions or discoveries of the infinite. And the poet,
>>>>>>>> then, whether in light rays or mathematics or the contemplation
>>>>>>>> of immigrants learns to convey that new possibility and
>>>>>>>> discovery to others in a valid form. The poem happens,
>>>>>>>> whatever language, within the mind, drawing from the structure
>>>>>>>> on the page or visible through other symbols. It provides a
>>>>>>>> setting for the symbols/data, and a tool for using them to
>>>>>>>> create.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My Best,
>>>>>>>> Jared Smith
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/30/2010 1:41 AM, Vítor Reia-Baptista wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Everybody.
>>>>>>>>> My name is Vítor Reia-Baptista and I work at the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> University of Algarve, in South Portugal, where we have a
>>>>>>>> research centre on Arts and Communication - CIAC (Centro de
>>>>>>>> Investigação em Artes e Comunicação)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.ciac.pt/en/index.php
>>>>>>>>> I do not have anu direct answer to Roger questions and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't know if they exist in general, but I'm certain that
>>>>>>>> they apply to many of our human kind situations: we do need
>>>>>>>> poetry, in different shapes and different states of mind and
>>>>>>>> materia.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, here are some starting contributes for a
>>>>>>>>> discussion maybe also around the way Teknè makes Poietike
>>>>>>>> possible, through knowledge (Science) made visible by Art
>>>>>>>> crafts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dave Morley, author of the poem «Mathematics of
>>>>>>>>> Light»
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/mathematics-of-lig
>>>>>>>> ht.htm
>>>>>>>>>> ;
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> «Think of an empty page as open space. It possesses
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> no dimension. Human time
>>>>>>>> makes no claim. Everything is possible, at this point
>>>>>>>>> endlessly possible.
>>>>>>>> Anything can grow in it. Anybody, real or imaginary,
>>>>>>>>> can travel there, stay
>>>>>>>> put, or move on. There is no constraint, except the
>>>>>>>>> honesty of the writer
>>>>>>>> and the scope of imagination-qualities with which we
>>>>>>>>> are born and
>>>>>>>> characteristics that we can develop. Writers are born
>>>>>>>>> and made.»
>>>>>>>> This contribute may be found in the site of the Centre
>>>>>>>>> for Poetry and
>>>>>>>> Science at the University of Liverpool:
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/index.htm>;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From another perspective the Poetry Foudation claims
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> that there are (at
>>>>>>>> least) 1875 Poems about Arts& Sciences, such as
>>>>>>>>> the «Equation for my
>>>>>>>> Children» by Wilmer Mills:
>>>>>>>>> http://atirateaomar.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best wishes.
>>>>>>>>> Vítor Reia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Citando roger malina<rmalina@alum.mit.edu>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Opening Statement by YASMIN co moderator Roger
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Malina
>>>>>>>>> Poetry in the Asylum:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There have been times in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> my life when I have been a voracious reader,
>>>>>>>>> and sometime writer, of poetry. Sometimes this state is
>>>>>>>>> triggered by jet lag. At those times I consume and generate
>>>>>>>>> poetry as if my very survival depended on it. At other times I
>>>>>>>>> am cold to poetry.
>>>>>>>>> My Czech grandparents were both musicians and music teachers
>>>>>>>>> and they raised my father in a home where music was almost a
>>>>>>>>> basic food. He used to listen to music as he carried out his
>>>>>>>>> scientific research in the 30s, and later as he created his
>>>>>>>>> kinetic art works in the 1950s; his seminal work ³Jazz²:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (http://www.olats.org/pionniers/malina/bdd/oeuvre.php?oi=1201
>>>>>>>>>> ) is a visual poem linking sound and image. It was
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> during this time that
>>>>>>>>> he was at personal risk, pursued by the US McCarthy staffers
>>>>>>>>> and the US FBI. Then suddenly in his 50s, after his political
>>>>>>>>> problems were over, he became oblivious to music and painted
>>>>>>>>> in silence for the rest of his life. Is this a coincidence or
>>>>>>>>> a connection? What is it that makes poetry vital for survival?
>>>>>>>>> We live in a dangerous age, do we need a new poetics?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In recent decades, much of
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the art connected to science and new
>>>>>>>>> technologies has been non contemplative, often loud and
>>>>>>>>> insistent, un-poetical. But other artists, and poets, as they
>>>>>>>>> have explored these new terrains have developed new poetic
>>>>>>>>> impulses that have created new senses of the special and even
>>>>>>>>> the sacred.
>>>>>>>>> Examples come to mind that
>>>>>>>>> I would put in the category of poetic arts would
>>>>>>>>> include:
>>>>>>>>> Jeffrey Shaw¹s ³Legible City :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61l7Y4MS4aU
>>>>>>>>>> Char Davies ³Ephemere²:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa_aiw7yhpI
>>>>>>>>>> David Rokeby¹s ³Very Nervous System² :
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrawKucSSRw
>>>>>>>>>> Mark Hansen and Ben Rubin¹s Listening post:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD36IajCz6A
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The invited respondents in this discussion have a
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> variety of
>>>>>>>>> approaches to poetry that connects to the sciences and
>>>>>>>>> technology of our age.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When historian Robert
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ilbert asked Samuel Bordreuil and I to set up
>>>>>>>>> the Art-Science wing of IMERA:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/organisation/101.html
>>>>>>>>>> he named it : ASIL, or the French word for Asylum,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> with the acronym
>>>>>>>>> Arts-Sciences-Instrumentations-Language . Indeed the
>>>>>>>>> connections between the arts, sciences and technology must
>>>>>>>>> also be mediated by languages both image and word, and in
>>>>>>>>> particular by art forms that use language as their raw
>>>>>>>>> material. We have recently issued a new call for residency
>>>>>>>>> proposals :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/becoming-a-fellow/applicatio
>>>>>>>>>> ns.html and we welcome proposals from poets that need to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> collaborate with
>>>>>>>>> scientists or research engineers to achieve their artistic
>>>>>>>>> vision. We need poetry in the Asylum.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ten years ago poet Tim
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Peterson, a participant in this discussion,
>>>>>>>>> led a Leonardo Electronic Almanac project around the new
>>>>>>>>> poetics :
>>>>>>>>> New Media Poetry and Poetics
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From Concrete to Codework: Praxis in Networked
>>>>>>>>>>> and Programmable Media
>>>>>>>>> http://www.leoalmanac.org/journal/vol_14/lea_v14_n05-06/tpeter
>>>>>>>>> son.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and more recently in the Leonardo Book Series at
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> MIT Press we published
>>>>>>>>> New Media Poetics: edited by Adalaide Morris and Thomas Swiss
>>>>>>>>> http://leonardo.info/isast/leobooks/books/swissmorris.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> which documents some of the current work in new
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> media poetics.
>>>>>>>>> In this YASMIN discussion we seek to discuss all the many ways
>>>>>>>>> that poetry connects to the new sciences and the new
>>>>>>>>> technologies that underpin so many of the new ways that we are
>>>>>>>>> becoming human.
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>>>>>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear
>>>>>>>> ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the
>>>>>>>> fields found further down the page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all
>>>>>>>>> the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button
>>>>>>>> on the page that will appear ("options page").
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the
>>>>>>>>> options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to either on or off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> -- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Messaging Program.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>>>>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info
>>>>>>>> page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields
>>>>>>>> found further down the page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the
>>>>>>>>> way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field.
>>>>>>>> Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the
>>>>>>>> page that will appear ("options page").
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options
>>>>>>>>> page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either
>>>>>>>> on or off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>> Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3287 -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Release Date: 11/29/10
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>>>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
>>>>>>>> subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter
>>>>>>>> e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further
>>>>>>>> down the page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down
>>>>>>>> and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password
>>>>>>>> if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will
>>>>>>>> appear ("options page").
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find
>>>>>>>> the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
>>>>>>> subscribe to.
>>>>>>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail
>>>>>>> address, name, and password in the fields found further down the
>>>>>>> page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down
>>>>>>> and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password
>>>>>>> if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will
>>>>>>> appear ("options page").
>>>>>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find
>>>>>>> the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>> Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3291 - Release Date:
>>>>>>> 12/01/10
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
to.
>>>>>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
>>>>>> name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
>>>>>> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
>>>>>> asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will
>>>>>> appear ("options page").
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find
>>>>>> the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>>
>>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>>
>>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
to.
>>>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
>>>> name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
>>>>
>>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
>>>> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
>>>> asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear
>>>> ("options page").
>>>>
>>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
>>>> "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Simon
>>
>> simon@littlepig.org.uk
>> http://www.littlepig.org.uk/
>>
>> s.biggs@eca.ac.uk
>> http://www.elmcip.net/
>> http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>
>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>
>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
>> to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
>> name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
>>
>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
>> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked.
>> Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options
page").
>>
>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
>> "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3317 - Release Date:
>> 12/15/10
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
> to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
> name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked.
> Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options
page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>
simon@littlepig.org.uk
http://www.littlepig.org.uk/
s.biggs@eca.ac.uk
http://www.elmcip.net/
http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In
the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
password in the fields found further down the page.
HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your
e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
