are falling, they no longer represent discovery and sensation and
creativity more than politicians represent people. the machines they
use don't follow natures patterns they represent the collective
attempts tp patch a patch of a patch of thinking that got stuck with
the mechanization of society. Its a dry rusty wheel and the road is
full of pitfalls holes and crumbling irellevance. The wheel is almost
off its axel but some nails and tape will keep it good for another few
years
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:23 PM,
<yasmin_discussions-request@estia.media.uoa.gr> wrote:
> Send Yasmin_discussions mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Science, Technology, Art, POETRY (marcos)
> 2. Science, Technology, Art, POETRY (roger malina)
> 3. towards digital poetry (Jason Nelson)
> 4. Re: Science, Technology, Art, POETRY (V?tor Reia-Baptista)
> 5. Re: Science, Technology, Art, POETRY (Jared Smith)
> 6. Science, Technology, Art, POETRY (bronac@boundaryobject.org)
> 7. Re: DATABAZ - programme d'hiver (Annick Bureaud)
> 8. the ANTHROPOLOGiST by Anthropologie / Home (Janelle Cugley)
> 9. Re: Science, Technology, Art, POETRY (c.tron@voila.fr)
> 10. Re: Science, Technology, Art, POETRY (V?tor Reia-Baptista)
> 11. Re: Science, Technology, Art, POETRY (Lisa Roberts)
> 12. Re: Science, Technology, Art, POETRY (ramon guardans)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 09:21:10 -0800
> From: marcos <marcosnovak@mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
> To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Message-ID: <BA151401-EA76-49A4-9AF0-ACFC9F176559@mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hello Ramon, and hello Yasminers all,
>
> I agree that the Greek term "poiesis" is very generous and includes all that is generative, as you mention. It isn't the same as all doing, however. Aristotle makes the distinction explicitly in his Nicomachean Ethics. I had just completed a separate message on the subject when this Yasmin_discussions post arrived, so I have it all ready to send. The message was to my Transvergence group. Here it is:
>
> (note: the translation uses the word "acting," but "doing" is also appropriate. The Greek words are "???????" and "??????", from which our "praxis" is derived.)
>
>> Transvergence always begins with: "Make!" -- typically followed by "if you know what you are doing: Make! If you don't know what you are doing: Make!"
>>
>> And, "liquid architectures" was largely about replacing all that was constant with variables and using computation to establish tightly interconnected relations.
>>
>> Here's Artistotle's view of the matter:
>>
>> Artistotle, Nicomachean Ethics, Book 6, Section 4.
>>
>>> In the variable are included both things made and things done; making and acting are different (for their nature we treat even the discussions outside our school as reliable); so that the reasoned state of capacity to act is different from the reasoned state of capacity to make. Hence too they are not included one in the other; for neither is acting making nor is making acting. Now since architecture is an art and is essentially a reasoned state of capacity to make, and there is neither any art that is not such a state nor any such state that is not an art, art is identical with a state of capacity to make, involving a true course of reasoning. All art is concerned with coming into being, i.e. with contriving and considering how something may come into being which is capable of either being or not being, and whose origin is in the maker and not in the thing made; for art is concerned neither with things that are, or come into being, by necessity, nor with things that do s!
> o in accordance with nature (since these have their origin in themselves). Making and acting being different, art must be a matter of making, not of acting. And in a sense chance and art are concerned with the same objects; as Agathon says, 'art loves chance and chance loves art'. Art, then, as has been said is a state concerned with making, involving a true course of reasoning, and lack of art on the contrary is a state concerned with making, involving a false course of reasoning; both are concerned with the variable.
>>
>> http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/nicomachaen.6.iv.html
>>
>> Again, the translation leaves something to be desired. I know you can't read it, but here's the original ancient Greek, for reference, in case we want to discuss any of this in more detail:
>>
>>> [1140a] (1) ??? ?' ??????????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ???????? ?????? ?' ???? ??????? ??? ?????? (?????????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??????????? ??????)? ???? ??? ? ???? ????? ???? ???????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????????? (5) ?????. ??? ???? ?????????? ??' ???????? ???? ??? ? ?????? ??????? ???? ? ??????? ?????? ?????. ???? ?' ? ?????????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????????, ??? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ???????? ???? ?????, ???? ??????? ? ?? ?????, ?????? (10) ?? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ????????. ???? ?? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ????????? ??? ??????? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ??????????? ??? ????? ??? ?? ?????, ??? ?? ? ???? ?? ?? ???????? ???? ?? ?? ?? ?????????? ???? ??? ??? ?? ??????? ????? ? ????????? ? (15) ????? ?????, ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ?????. ???? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????, ?????? ??? ?????? ???????? ???' ?? ??????? ?????. ??? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?!
> ???? ??? ? ?????, ??????? ??? ?????? ????
>>>
>>> ????? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ??????.
>>>
>>> (20) ? ??? ??? ?????, ????? ???????, ???? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ???????? ?????, ? ?' ??????? ?????????? ???? ????? ??????? ???????? ????, ???? ?? ??????????? ????? ?????.
>>
>> The word translated as "variable" is "???????????" -- which can mean "variable" but can also signify "option", "likelihood", and "probability" -- the actual meaning being closer to "that which can receive something within itself" (like a placeholder or receptacle), which brings it very close to the idea of a register in a computer, or of a location in memory.
>>
>> The association of art with "the habit of making with true reasoning" is quite striking in its appropriateness for computer generated art, or any art that involves formal precision in its conception and construction:
>>
>> ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ???????? ?????
>> (art) (habit) (with) (reason, logos) (true) (making, poetic) (is)
>>
>> Or, "art is the habit of making with true(or correct) reasoning"
>>
>> And then, of course, "artlessness is the habit of making with false(or incorrect) reasoning," as anyone struggling to debug a program can attest.
>
>
> What I find particularly relevant to our community is the strong link Aristotle makes between poetics and correct "true logos", which he eventually distinguishes as correct knowledge (science facts) and correct reasoning (science derivation), all the while maintaining the expressive power of art and poetry, and never seeing the two in conflict. It is interesting also to note that making with incorrect reasoning is artless.
>
> Our times could learn a lot from these views.
>
>
> Marcos
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2010, at 2:34 AM, ramon guardans wrote:
>
>> Yasminers, greetings
>>
>> This is indeed a good topic , i would suggest three points
>>
>> first to consider the greek term poiesis, in the sense of doing, (agire) any form of action is a form of poetry
>>
>> then if we consider the living world from bacteria to the global mess of ecosystems, corporations and people hiding from the storm one can postulate a distributed poetic agency, that is at many levels different organic processes are poetic, in cell metabolism, endocrine songs and immune responses, in flowers, birds and plankton blooms soaking loud humpback whales, in factory floor, academia and shouk.
>>
>> And third, a very beautiful reference is Reviel Netz (2009) Ludic Proof, Greek Mathematics and the Alexandrian Aesthetic CUP, very well written and infromative the book argues for the functional, material and abstract continuity of creative efforts , how working out and exchanging mahematical problems and ways to solve them was /is part of the general conversation on producing beauty, which in my view includes the two points above.
>>
>> cordially
>> r
>>
>> --- On Tue, 11/30/10, roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> From: roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>
>>> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
>>> To: "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS" <Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
>>> Date: Tuesday, November 30, 2010, 5:01 PM
>>> From: sharada srinivasan <sharasri@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nice to hear of this new Yasmin effort re poetry;
>>> and nice to hear that you write poetry!
>>>
>>> new YASMIN discussion beginning Dec 1 2010 :
>>>
>>> Science, Technology, POETRY
>>>
>>> At this INSAP conference there was Jocelyn Bell who had a
>>> good
>>> selection of astronomy related poems that she got some of
>>> us to read
>>> out so that was fun, (and I got by chance a particularly
>>> long poem on
>>> Herschel...)also remember being in touch with a poet in
>>> london William
>>> Radice at SOAS who was working on a poetry effort with
>>> Marcus Du Sautoy. In India, actually some of the poetry of
>>> poets like
>>> Keki Daruwala and Jayanta Mahapatra (who also first was a
>>> physics
>>> major) do have echoes of these, I will try to mention to
>>> them.. anyway
>>> its a fun topic, perhaps one ought to do somethign on this
>>> end too
>>> with that!
>>> best
>>>
>>> Sharada
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
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>>>
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>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:33:00 +0100
> From: roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>
> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
> To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTimHgBC_E9MCPyMFhQWE25F-np0jdbm9LYCOJu2d@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Ramon
>
> Your comments about "poesis' , and taking a macro view of the
> meaning of poesis, and in particular the connections to the organic world
> of course connects to many streams of though
>
> a) Stuart Kauffman, in his book " re inventing the sacred"
> argues that indeed the science of complexity carries with it
> an impulse that leads to the generation of life through
> a natural process of evolution, he associates this 'mystery"
> with a new form of sacrality
>
> the book is at:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Sacred-Science-Reason-Religion/dp/0465003001
>
> his web site is at
>
> http://www.uvm.edu/~cmplxsys/?Page=kauffman/default.php
> there is a good video from him at:
>
> http://www.uvm.edu/~cmplxsys/?Page=kauffman/ColoradoVideo_Feb2010/kauffmanUColorado_Feb2010.html
>
> b) and of course the work on autopoesis of Varella, Maturana etc
>
> there is a good web site at:
>
> http://complexity.vub.ac.be/~comdig/Varela04/
>
> Kauffman takes the argument further with his idea that:
>
> we are "mind-brain-body systems that are trans-Turing quantum, poised realm,
> classical systems of unknown richness"
>
> c) The whole stream of ideas around biomorphism, not only Barr
> but also the german bioromantika of Erno Kallai etc ( if you remember
> Kepes also inherited this line of thought, leading to his "New Landscape
> in Art and Science". )There is a phd thesis bv Grant Taylor "the machine
> that made science art"
>
> http://theses.library.uwa.edu.au/adt-WU2005.0114/public/01front.pdf
>
> with a chapter than explicits the lineage
>
> http://theses.library.uwa.edu.au/adt-WU2005.0114/public/04chapter2.pdf
>
> Perhaps a related point that I would make, is that one often reads that
> scientific understanding somehow destroys the joy / mystery of the universe-
> I am sure you would strongly dispute this as does Kaufman in his
> recent blog on science
> and poetry
>
> http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2010/10/04/130324199/science-and-poetry
>
> here is his rebuttal to "cold science" destroying the wonder of the world:
>
> We are not Algorithmic:
>
> Back to poetry. Newton?s determinism and the determinism of
> algorithms are deeply related.
> The AI view is latter day Newton plus Turing. No need for the metaphor
> richness and allusions
> of poetry. Just use your algorithmic mind to compute.
>
> But if we are not algorithmic, if the Poised Realm is part open
> quantum system with its new physics,
> if life lives partly in the Poised Realm as I increasingly believe it
> does, then our mind-brain-body
> systems are trans-Turing quantum, poised realm, classical systems of
> unknown richness. Far off,
> or not so far off, I sense, we will begin to understand meaning and
> language enabled by such systems
> that solve their own framing problems, and are enabled by the
> metaphors of poetry, art, dance, plays,
> novels, and music.
>
> from kauffman
>
> roger
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 06:42:45 +1000
> From: Jason Nelson <heliopod@gmail.com>
> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] towards digital poetry
> To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTinQFNG7faozvqUOveVRFZ5ia2otwW+O0N-02ojU@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> All,
>
> thanks for making me part of the list. I'm a digital poet (that is
> literally in my job description) who was described recently as part of
> the second wave. I'm not sure exactly what that means, other than I
> came into the field post 2001 and have made my strongest works
> recently. Lots of thoughts, obviously, about digital poetry, but I'll
> being with a statement of sorts:
>
> Shortly before one of my first digital poetry readings at the U of
> Maryland, I was asked to describe how I generated ideas for my digital
> poems. Initially, I stormed into a discussion about not being
> satisfied with the limitations of print, and the need to find a format
> that satiated a curious and scattered mind. And while those points are
> entirely valid and contribute to my creative process/direction, they
> didn?t really answer the question of where the kernel, the initial
> spark for each digital poem lives.I stumbled through half-jokes and
> comments about the food and weather, until someone across from me said
> they loved my interfaces. At the time I hadn?t really, formally,
> considered the idea of an interface, the notion that digital poems
> have an engine, an architecture that structurally, thematically,
> cultural surrounds the poem, holds the poem, shelters and nurtures and
> indeed conceives (procreation digitally) the poem.
>
> Later after the reading/talk, the topic of ?where are my digital poems
> born? came up again. And with the aid of a few drinks and the
> pressures of ?big crowd talk? past, I raised my voice and commanded
> (rather dramatically) ?look around at the bar?. With my half-drunk
> audience now confused, I continued. ?Everything around us has an
> organization, a geography, a pattern, an interface?, I uttered. I
> pointed out how poems could be formed from the way drinking glasses
> stack on the bar top, or how the pool tables and their colored and
> sequential billiard balls are an interactive and generative poem. Soon
> we began playing games, creating new digital poems from what we saw
> (and heard) around us at the bar. There were sound poems created from
> the mixing of conversations and music, game poems from the pinball
> machine, self-destroying poems from the way alcohol slid us deeper
> into one-dimensional thought. For that evening at least, the world,
> like a movie?s representation of the idiot savant mathematician, was
> filled with numbers and equations floating above everything on the
> screen. And instead of digits, interactive texts were the filter and
> footnotes to our sensory experiences.
>
> It is overly simplistic to state that my digital poems come entirely
> from building/discovering interfaces. Any artist?s creative practice
> is a merging/melding mix of fluid events and inspirations. But with
> all my digital poems there is one commonality, the emphasis on
> interface. Rarely do I even reuse interfaces, and when I do it is only
> as one section of a larger work. This continual drive to create new
> ways to rethink the structure, organization and interactive
> functionality of my digital poems comes from a variety of internal
> influences. Most importantly is how these interfaces are not just
> vessels for content, they are poems in themselves. In the same way
> digital poetry might be best defined by the experience, rather than a
> description. Or similar to a digital poet and their works being
> described by the events and stories surrounding the creation and
> building process, an interface is the life, the body, and a poetic
> construction in itself.
>
> --
> Jason Nelson
>
> Net Art/Digital Poetry and other oddities
>
> http://www.secrettechnology.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 12:05:42 +0000
> From: V?tor Reia-Baptista <vreia@ualg.pt>
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
> To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> Message-ID: <20101130120542.371877l6gbto5oso@wmail.ualg.pt>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed"
>
> Dear Annick.
>
> As I wrote to Brenac (in private),
> ?... bit of redundancy here would not do any arm, since we tend to see
> things separately, like poetry beeing a support for some scientific
> and technological aspects only ... But in the end it really doesn't
> matter so much, since not only poetry is art, but also most art forms
> (if not all them) are poetic.?
>
> V?tor
>
> Citando Annick Bureaud <bureaud@altern.org>:
>
>> Dear Roger
>>
>> To the references of (new media) poetry and Leonardo (in LEA and in
>> the Book Series) that you mention in your introductory post, I would
>> like to add "Les Basiques : La litt?rature num?rique" by Philippe
>> Bootz in the Les Basiques Series on Leonardo/Olats :
>> http://www.olats.org/livresetudes/basiques/litteraturenumerique/basiquesLN.php It is in French, but I am sure that many Yasminers read
>> French.
>>
>>
>>> What is it that
>>> makes poetry vital for survival? We live in a dangerous age, do we
>>> need a new poetics?
>>
>> I think that apart from some very short periods and only in very few
>> countries, we (human beings at large) have always lived in a
>> "dangerous age". I also think that art (and not only poetry) is
>> vital for survival.
>>
>> Annick
>>
>> --
>>
>> ------------------------
>> Annick Bureaud (abureaud@gmail.com)
>> tel/fax : 33/(0)1 43 20 92 23
>> mobile/cell : 33/(0)6 86 77 65 76
>> Leonardo/Olats : http://www.olats.org
>> -------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>
>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>
>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
>> subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter
>> e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down
>> the page.
>>
>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
>> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
>> asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear
>> ("options page").
>>
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>> "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 14:32:17 -0700
> From: Jared Smith <smithjrw@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
> To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> Message-ID: <4CF6BEE1.2070505@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Hi, Vitor and other Yasminers,
>
> What a fascinating conversation this is developing into! Your
> contribution here, Vitor, opens up the whole question of thought
> processes in poetry and the languages that represent those processes.
> Of course, on the most basic surface level, some of us may be most
> comfortable conversing in Italian or French or English or any other
> language native to a particular country or region. At a somewhat deeper
> level, we may be more comfortable conversing in light beams or music or
> mathematical symbols All of these symbols are, of course, just that:
> symbols that stand for the concrete statements we make or the
> meditations we set out upon. And David Morley's "Mathematics of Light"
> is a wonderful example of how one set of symbols may be merged within
> another. In our time, especially, one can do this with images that are
> complete pictures, as with digital poems and their interfaces, as Jason
> Nelson has just discussed in his post. The shadows of Plato's cave wall
> take on depth and become more interactive. And perhaps Knowledge
> (science) is allowed the chance to become closer to Art than to
> Craft--fact and not pretense?
>
> But the empty page, in any case, is what all these languages line their
> symbols down on. I wonder if there is value to thinking of the empty
> page as a scaffolding which symbols of whatever sort that compose a
> unity may be laid down. The symbols are statements. The scaffolding is
> the blank space across which those symbols play out--giving them
> nonlinear depth and meaning because we don't know how deep that space is
> or what its shape is. Nor does the mind try to measure the size of the
> paper or its infinitude. The mind does something else: it experiences
> the unknown space and makes of it what it will. It turns the finite
> into one or more possible definitions or discoveries of the infinite.
> And the poet, then, whether in light rays or mathematics or the
> contemplation of immigrants learns to convey that new possibility and
> discovery to others in a valid form. The poem happens, whatever
> language, within the mind, drawing from the structure on the page or
> visible through other symbols. It provides a setting for the
> symbols/data, and a tool for using them to create.
>
> My Best,
> Jared Smith
>
>
>
> On 11/30/2010 1:41 AM, V?tor Reia-Baptista wrote:
>> Hi Everybody.
>>
>> My name is V?tor Reia-Baptista and I work at the University of
>> Algarve, in South Portugal, where we have a research centre on Arts
>> and Communication - CIAC (Centro de Investiga??o em Artes e Comunica??o)
>> http://www.ciac.pt/en/index.php
>>
>> I do not have anu direct answer to Roger questions and I don't know if
>> they exist in general, but I'm certain that they apply to many of our
>> human kind situations: we do need poetry, in different shapes and
>> different states of mind and materia.
>>
>> So, here are some starting contributes for a discussion maybe also
>> around the way Tekn? makes Poietike possible, through knowledge
>> (Science) made visible by Art crafts?
>>
>> Dave Morley, author of the poem ?Mathematics of Light?
>> <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/mathematics-of-light.htm>;
>> wrote:
>> ?Think of an empty page as open space. It possesses no dimension.
>> Human time
>> makes no claim. Everything is possible, at this point endlessly possible.
>> Anything can grow in it. Anybody, real or imaginary, can travel there,
>> stay
>> put, or move on. There is no constraint, except the honesty of the writer
>> and the scope of imagination-qualities with which we are born and
>> characteristics that we can develop. Writers are born and made.?
>>
>> This contribute may be found in the site of the Centre for Poetry and
>> Science at the University of Liverpool:
>> <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/index.htm>;
>>
>> From another perspective the Poetry Foudation claims that there are (at
>> least) 1875 Poems about Arts & Sciences, such as the ?Equation for my
>> Children? by Wilmer Mills:
>> http://atirateaomar.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Best wishes.
>> V?tor Reia
>>
>> Citando roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>:
>>
>>> Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
>>> Opening Statement by YASMIN co moderator Roger Malina
>>>
>>> Poetry in the Asylum:
>>>
>>> There have been times in my life when I have been a voracious
>>> reader,
>>> and sometime writer, of poetry. Sometimes this state is triggered by
>>> jet lag. At those times I consume and generate poetry as if my very
>>> survival depended on it. At other times I am cold to poetry.
>>>
>>> My Czech grandparents were both musicians and music teachers and they
>>> raised my father in a home where music was almost a basic food. He
>>> used to listen to music as he carried out his scientific research in
>>> the 30s, and later as he created his kinetic art works in the 1950s;
>>> his seminal work ?Jazz?:
>>> (http://www.olats.org/pionniers/malina/bdd/oeuvre.php?oi=1201)
>>> is a visual poem linking sound and image. It was during this time that
>>> he was at personal risk, pursued by the US McCarthy staffers and the
>>> US FBI. Then suddenly in his 50s, after his political problems were
>>> over, he became oblivious to music and painted in silence for the rest
>>> of his life. Is this a coincidence or a connection? What is it that
>>> makes poetry vital for survival? We live in a dangerous age, do we
>>> need a new poetics?
>>>
>>> In recent decades, much of the art connected to science and new
>>> technologies has been non contemplative, often loud and insistent,
>>> un-poetical. But other artists, and poets, as they have explored these
>>> new terrains have developed new poetic impulses that have created new
>>> senses of the special and even the sacred. Examples come to mind that
>>> I would put in the category of poetic arts would include:
>>>
>>> Jeffrey Shaw?s ?Legible City :
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61l7Y4MS4aU
>>> Char Davies ?Ephemere?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa_aiw7yhpI
>>> David Rokeby?s ?Very Nervous System? :
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrawKucSSRw
>>> Mark Hansen and Ben Rubin?s Listening post:
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD36IajCz6A
>>>
>>> The invited respondents in this discussion have a variety of
>>> approaches to poetry that connects to the sciences and technology of
>>> our age.
>>>
>>> When historian Robert Ilbert asked Samuel Bordreuil and I to set up
>>> the Art-Science wing of IMERA:
>>> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/organisation/101.html
>>> he named it : ASIL, or the French word for Asylum, with the acronym
>>> Arts-Sciences-Instrumentations-Language . Indeed the connections
>>> between the arts, sciences and technology must also be mediated by
>>> languages both image and word, and in particular by art forms that use
>>> language as their raw material. We have recently issued a new call for
>>> residency proposals :
>>> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/becoming-a-fellow/applications.html
>>> and we welcome proposals from poets that need to collaborate with
>>> scientists or research engineers to achieve their artistic vision. We
>>> need poetry in the Asylum.
>>>
>>> Ten years ago poet Tim Peterson, a participant in this discussion,
>>> led a Leonardo Electronic Almanac project around the new poetics :
>>> New Media Poetry and Poetics
>>>> From Concrete to Codework: Praxis in Networked and Programmable Media
>>> http://www.leoalmanac.org/journal/vol_14/lea_v14_n05-06/tpeterson.html
>>> and more recently in the Leonardo Book Series at MIT Press we published
>>> New Media Poetics: edited by Adalaide Morris and Thomas Swiss
>>> http://leonardo.info/isast/leobooks/books/swissmorris.html
>>> which documents some of the current work in new media poetics.
>>>
>>> In this YASMIN discussion we seek to discuss all the many ways that
>>> poetry connects to the new sciences and the new technologies that
>>> underpin so many of the new ways that we are becoming human.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>
>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>
>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
>>> to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
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>>>
>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
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>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 00:59:07 +0000 (GMT)
> From: bronac@boundaryobject.org
> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
> To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> Cc: rmalina@alum.mit.edu
> Message-ID: <978759571.70806.1291251547204.JavaMail.mail@webmail06>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:33:45 +0100
> From: Annick Bureaud <bureaud@altern.org>
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] DATABAZ - programme d'hiver
> To: Yasmin Discussions <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Message-ID: <4CF759E9.2050603@altern.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> This is the programme (in French) of Databaz, an
> experimental art center in Angoul?me, France focusing on
> (digital) and experimental poetry.
> It has been created by 2 artistes : Hortense Gauthier &
> Philippe Boisnard
>
> Annick
>
>
>> _**///////////////////// DATABAZ - /Centre d'art exp?rimental
>
>> *
>> 100, rue du Gond - 16000 Angoul?me - 05 45 38 28 52 -
>
>> ************//*//************/www.databaz.com/centre
>
>> PERFORMANCE/LECTURE
>
>> Jean-Fran?ois Bory / Jacques Donguy / Tibor Papp
>
>> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: po?sie visuelle / po?sie sonore / po?sie
>> num?rique::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>
>> // samedi 11 d?cembre - 20h30 - entr?e libre//
>
>> *
>> [infos + <http://databaz.org/centre/?p=410>]
>
>> *
>> *
>> # Jacques Donguy
>
>> Po?te, traducteur (d'Augusto de Campos) et th?oricien, fondateur de la
>> galerie d'art contemporain J&J Donguy, pratique la po?sie num?rique et
>> sonore, notamment ? travers de performances en collaboration avec
>> Guillaume Loizillon, Laurent Mercier et Etienne Brunet (musiciens).
>> Depuis la parution de Tag-Surfusion en 1996, il lit en public, notamment
>> au Centre Pompidou en 1998, ses textes re-cr??s par la machine, avec
>> vid?oprojection en al?atoire et sons mis en boucle.
>> Jacques Donguy utilise l?ordinateur en faisant appel ? des proc?dures
>> al?atoires bas?es sur le hasard, en relation ? Mallarm? et ? son Coup de
>> D?s. La r?volution a ?t? l?ordinateur personnel ou P.C. ? partir de
>> 1983/84 au m?me titre que le Livre Personne (L. P.) a ?t? une r?volution
>> ? la Renaissance par rapport au manuscrit enlumin? au Moyen-?ge. On peut
>> y ajouter le r?seau internet, ou l?id?e de circulation, de crash-texte
>> qu??voque Arthur Kroker dans Spasm, qui remplace celle d?inscription
>> pour l??ternit?.
>>
>> - Performance et entretien au Cube
>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9vsr1_jacques-donguy-poesie-numerique-140_creation
>>
>> *# Tibor Papp*
>> Po?te, ?crivain, traducteur, typographe. N? en 1936 ? Tokaj (Hongrie).
>> Apr?s son bac, l?universit? lui ?tant ferm?, travaille dans une usine au
>> nord de la Hongrie, puis ? Budapest.
>> Quitte la Hongrie en 1957. S?inscrit ? l?universit? de Li?ge (dipl?m?
>> candidat ing?nieur). Participe ? la fondation de la revue litt?raire
>> belge ? dialogue ?. Arrive ? Paris en 1961. S?inscrit ? la Sorbonne
>> comme auditeur libre, puis en 1962 avec ses amis, fonde la revue
>> litt?raire hongroise : ? Magyar M?hely ? ? Atelier Hongrois ? ? publi?e
>> depuis 1990 ? Paris et ? Budapest ? et la maison d??dition du m?me nom.
>> Il en est toujours r?dacteur et l?un des principaux animateurs.
>> Participe avec Philippe D?me et Paul Nagy ? la fondation de la revue et
>> de la maison d??dition ? D?Atelier ? (1972). Cr?e en 1985 sa premi?re
>> ?uvre programm?e sur ordinateur.
>> ? partir de 1985, fait partie du bureau de Polyphonix. Il est l?un des
>> fondateurs du groupe Laire (Lecture Art-Innovation-Recherche-?criture),
>> et des ?ditions du m?me nom, publiant la revue litt?raire d??crits de
>> source ?lectronique, Alire, la premi?re dans le monde ? ?tre diffus?e
>> sur support informatique (1988). Participe ? de nombreux festivals,
>> expositions et manifestations artistiques, a publi? plusieurs livres,
>> des ?uvres phoniques sur cassettes, sur disques, et des po?mes visuels
>> dynamiques sur disquettes d?ordinateur.
>>
>> _- Lecture ? Arras en 2006_
>> http://www.t-pas-net.com/libr-critique/?p=253
>> _- Po?mes visuels : _
>> http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/hungary/h-papp.htm
>> <http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/hungary/h-papp.htm%20%20>
>>
>> *# Jean-Fran?ois Bory *
>>*
>> *
>> N? le 2 mai 1938 ? Paris.
>
>> ***********?crit depuis l??ge de 4 ou 5 ans, comme beaucoup de monde.
>> Enfance mouvement?e en Asie. Avec des camarades de classe, cr?e, ? l??ge
>> de 12 ans, au lyc?e de Hu? (Vietnam), une revue litt?raire, recopi?e ?
>> la main en plusieurs exemplaires, intitul?e : ? L?Encrier ?. 1958-1961,
>> guerre d?Alg?rie dans le massif de l?Ouarsenis. 1962, re-?tudes, puis
>> travaille ? l?A.F.P. d?tach? dans un cabinet minist?riel. Mariage.
>> Divorce. Apr?s avoir pris son temps et s?y ?tre pr?par?, se d?barrasse
>> de toute activit? salari?e en 1972, ? 34 ans, et n?y revient jamais.
>> Nombreuses lectures publiques. Perd un ?il en 1977. Mariage. Craint, par
>> dessus tout, les voyages et la duplicit?. Vit et travaille ?
>> Paris.***********
>> ***********Au d?but des ann?es ?70, alors que le dada?ste Raoul Hausmann
>> avait quasiment sombr? dans l?oubli, il a publi? : Raoul Hausmann et
>> Dada ? Berlin (L?Herne, 1972) et organis?, la m?me ann?e, une exposition
>> de cet artiste au Studio Brescia (Italie).***********
>> ***********Il a compil? une Anthologie des po?tes dada?stes parue dans
>> la collection Po?sie / Gallimard dirig?e par Andr? Velter.***********
>> ***********
>> ***********
>> ***********A publi? notamment***********
>> ***********? /L'auteur, une autobiographie/, L'Olivier/Le Seuil, 2001.
>> ? /P?riple/, ?ditions de l'Attente, 2001.
>> ? /Anthologie provisoire/, Al Dante, 2002.
>> ? /Roussel S.A.R.L/., Al Dante, 2003.***********
>> ***********? /Japon, le retour/, Al Dante, 2004.
>> ? /Cin?ma int?gral/, contrat main, 2006.
>> ? /Dix-sept fa?ons de rater un livre sur D?Annunzio/, Spectres
>> Familiers, 2007.
>> ? /Bienvenue Monsieur Gutenberg/, L?attente, 2008.***********
>> ***********
>> ***********
>> ***********http://www.cipmarseille.com/auteur_fiche.php?id=670
>> ************
>>
>> *DATABAZ*
>> association /Trame Ouest/
>> /http://databaz.org/centre/
>>
>> Hortense Gauthier
>> & Philippe Boisnard
>> 100, rue du Gond
>> 16000 Angoul?me - FRANCE
>> + 33 (0)6 98 80 34 30
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 06:15:32 +0800
> From: "Janelle Cugley" <blueskythink@iprimus.com.au>
> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] the ANTHROPOLOGiST by Anthropologie /
> Home
> To: <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Message-ID: <2EAB3DADE1764A61B65F4E9B0AB2DF76@janelledesktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Speaking of poetry, what a great discussion you are all having. Its truly inspiring, I've only just started receiving the discussion . I thought you may all be inspired by this blog. I d like to share this poem that just keeps growing from a part of the world where I've never been, and from people I've never met. These artists have touched me like finding a small spring in a salt lake. Another example of art , poetry.. ways of being and seeing the world from a different lens than those that make most of the decisions about economic growth, education and building communities.
> http://www.theanthropologist.net/?cm_mmc=Email-_-Anthropologist_2010-_-120110Anthropologist-_-agist#/Home
>
> As artist we try to establish these connections that create meaning. We also like to be inclusive if we feel it can be of benefit to others. Poetry, music .. images.. voice.. permeates the membranes of matter, this is what we explore directly. It is the stuff flesh is made from.. i propose we all explore this idea of flesh as a covering or a recovering as a future topic. It could mean anything.. flesh, flourish... ideas for this notable group.
> thank you all. What a great discussion. Timely.
>
> Janelle Cugley
> Aurora project Space.
> Wheat Belt Western Australia.
> still starting... this is hard work out in the bush.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 18:26:49 +0100 (CET)
> From: "c.tron@voila.fr" <c.tron@voila.fr>
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
> To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>,
> yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> Message-ID: <15482722.1034441291310809498.JavaMail.www@wwinf4608>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hello all,
> This is a wondrful discussion.
> Just an information about two days around Media poetry organized in Marseille two years ago by Alphabetville with cipM and INA M?diterran?e.
> The entries were to observe the relationship between poetry and technical dispositives, it meens out of the book. It has been important since the XXth century, with technical inventions that able to generate sound poetry or poetic cinema, and until XXIth century with digital and even biotechnologies. In his book "The Gutenberg galaxy", MCLuhan says that phonetic alphabet and written alphabet make a huge difference in our cultural behaviour, and looks at the formal conception and perception in oral poetry and printed poetry. With the new technologies, we go on another that is electronic culture. It can be a mixed culture of all those elements.
> Anyway, some poets and artists have confronted their art and their language with these materialities, grammars, codes, and specific logos of technologies. This is not only for modernism or avant-garde, but because "medium is message", still with McLuhan, and science, technics, media and art are linked into the final meaning.
> You can have a look at the programm here : http://www.alphabetville.org/article.php3?id_article=137
> It was a fabulous exchange with eduardo kac, ambroise barras, jean-pierre bobillot, jean-pierre rehm...
> Thanks for your attention,
> Colette Tron
>
> ____________________________________________________
>
> Prenez de l'avance pour vos cadeaux de No?l, d?couvrez notre s?lection sur Voila : http://actu.voila.fr/evenementiel/noel-2010/boutique/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 21:40:02 +0000
> From: V?tor Reia-Baptista <vreia@ualg.pt>
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
> To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> Message-ID: <20101202214002.53607888z75xtb0g@wmail.ualg.pt>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
> format="flowed"
>
> Hi jared and all the others.
> Yes the poem as a content and a form to fill the empty page - the
> empty space, trying to keep an open structure of words and thougths,
> seems to be a never ending vertigo into the void of the awareness of
> the emptiness.
> That is probably why you can never translate a poem, since each time
> you put any words in any languge in that open page, you start a new
> vertigo process.
> That's why many times I prefer the spoken word form, filling the
> interspace of freejazz than the written word filling the open space of
> the empty page. You cqn listen to some exqmples of that in:
> http://www.myspace.com/flajazzados
> Best.
> V?tor
>
> Quoting Jared Smith <smithjrw@comcast.net>:
>
>> Hi, Vitor and other Yasminers,
>>
>> What a fascinating conversation this is developing into! Your
>> contribution here, Vitor, opens up the whole question of thought
>> processes in poetry and the languages that represent those
>> processes. Of course, on the most basic surface level, some of us
>> may be most comfortable conversing in Italian or French or English
>> or any other language native to a particular country or region. At
>> a somewhat deeper level, we may be more comfortable conversing in
>> light beams or music or mathematical symbols All of these symbols
>> are, of course, just that: symbols that stand for the concrete
>> statements we make or the meditations we set out upon. And David
>> Morley's "Mathematics of Light" is a wonderful example of how one
>> set of symbols may be merged within another. In our time,
>> especially, one can do this with images that are complete pictures,
>> as with digital poems and their interfaces, as Jason Nelson has just
>> discussed in his post. The shadows of Plato's cave wall take on
>> depth and become more interactive. And perhaps Knowledge (science)
>> is allowed the chance to become closer to Art than to Craft--fact
>> and not pretense?
>>
>> But the empty page, in any case, is what all these languages line
>> their symbols down on. I wonder if there is value to thinking of
>> the empty page as a scaffolding which symbols of whatever sort that
>> compose a unity may be laid down. The symbols are statements. The
>> scaffolding is the blank space across which those symbols play
>> out--giving them nonlinear depth and meaning because we don't know
>> how deep that space is or what its shape is. Nor does the mind try
>> to measure the size of the paper or its infinitude. The mind does
>> something else: it experiences the unknown space and makes of it
>> what it will. It turns the finite into one or more possible
>> definitions or discoveries of the infinite. And the poet, then,
>> whether in light rays or mathematics or the contemplation of
>> immigrants learns to convey that new possibility and discovery to
>> others in a valid form. The poem happens, whatever language, within
>> the mind, drawing from the structure on the page or visible through
>> other symbols. It provides a setting for the symbols/data, and a
>> tool for using them to create.
>>
>> My Best,
>> Jared Smith
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/30/2010 1:41 AM, V?tor Reia-Baptista wrote:
>>> Hi Everybody.
>>>
>>> My name is V?tor Reia-Baptista and I work at the University of
>>> Algarve, in South Portugal, where we have a research centre on Arts
>>> and Communication - CIAC (Centro de Investiga??o em Artes e
>>> Comunica??o)
>>> http://www.ciac.pt/en/index.php
>>>
>>> I do not have anu direct answer to Roger questions and I don't know
>>> if they exist in general, but I'm certain that they apply to many
>>> of our human kind situations: we do need poetry, in different
>>> shapes and different states of mind and materia.
>>>
>>> So, here are some starting contributes for a discussion maybe also
>>> around the way Tekn? makes Poietike possible, through knowledge
>>> (Science) made visible by Art crafts?
>>>
>>> Dave Morley, author of the poem ?Mathematics of Light?
>>> <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/mathematics-of-light.htm>;
>>> wrote:
>>> ?Think of an empty page as open space. It possesses no dimension. Human time
>>> makes no claim. Everything is possible, at this point endlessly possible.
>>> Anything can grow in it. Anybody, real or imaginary, can travel there, stay
>>> put, or move on. There is no constraint, except the honesty of the writer
>>> and the scope of imagination-qualities with which we are born and
>>> characteristics that we can develop. Writers are born and made.?
>>>
>>> This contribute may be found in the site of the Centre for Poetry and
>>> Science at the University of Liverpool:
>>> <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/index.htm>;
>>>
>>> From another perspective the Poetry Foudation claims that there are (at
>>> least) 1875 Poems about Arts & Sciences, such as the ?Equation for my
>>> Children? by Wilmer Mills:
>>> http://atirateaomar.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>> Best wishes.
>>> V?tor Reia
>>>
>>> Citando roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>:
>>>
>>>> Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
>>>> Opening Statement by YASMIN co moderator Roger Malina
>>>>
>>>> Poetry in the Asylum:
>>>>
>>>> There have been times in my life when I have been a voracious reader,
>>>> and sometime writer, of poetry. Sometimes this state is triggered by
>>>> jet lag. At those times I consume and generate poetry as if my very
>>>> survival depended on it. At other times I am cold to poetry.
>>>>
>>>> My Czech grandparents were both musicians and music teachers and they
>>>> raised my father in a home where music was almost a basic food. He
>>>> used to listen to music as he carried out his scientific research in
>>>> the 30s, and later as he created his kinetic art works in the 1950s;
>>>> his seminal work ?Jazz?:
>>>> (http://www.olats.org/pionniers/malina/bdd/oeuvre.php?oi=1201)
>>>> is a visual poem linking sound and image. It was during this time that
>>>> he was at personal risk, pursued by the US McCarthy staffers and the
>>>> US FBI. Then suddenly in his 50s, after his political problems were
>>>> over, he became oblivious to music and painted in silence for the rest
>>>> of his life. Is this a coincidence or a connection? What is it that
>>>> makes poetry vital for survival? We live in a dangerous age, do we
>>>> need a new poetics?
>>>>
>>>> In recent decades, much of the art connected to science and new
>>>> technologies has been non contemplative, often loud and insistent,
>>>> un-poetical. But other artists, and poets, as they have explored these
>>>> new terrains have developed new poetic impulses that have created new
>>>> senses of the special and even the sacred. Examples come to mind that
>>>> I would put in the category of poetic arts would include:
>>>>
>>>> Jeffrey Shaw?s ?Legible City : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61l7Y4MS4aU
>>>> Char Davies ?Ephemere?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa_aiw7yhpI
>>>> David Rokeby?s ?Very Nervous System? :
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrawKucSSRw
>>>> Mark Hansen and Ben Rubin?s Listening post:
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD36IajCz6A
>>>>
>>>> The invited respondents in this discussion have a variety of
>>>> approaches to poetry that connects to the sciences and technology of
>>>> our age.
>>>>
>>>> When historian Robert Ilbert asked Samuel Bordreuil and I to set up
>>>> the Art-Science wing of IMERA:
>>>> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/organisation/101.html
>>>> he named it : ASIL, or the French word for Asylum, with the acronym
>>>> Arts-Sciences-Instrumentations-Language . Indeed the connections
>>>> between the arts, sciences and technology must also be mediated by
>>>> languages both image and word, and in particular by art forms that use
>>>> language as their raw material. We have recently issued a new call for
>>>> residency proposals :
>>>> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/becoming-a-fellow/applications.html
>>>> and we welcome proposals from poets that need to collaborate with
>>>> scientists or research engineers to achieve their artistic vision. We
>>>> need poetry in the Asylum.
>>>>
>>>> Ten years ago poet Tim Peterson, a participant in this discussion,
>>>> led a Leonardo Electronic Almanac project around the new poetics :
>>>> New Media Poetry and Poetics
>>>>> From Concrete to Codework: Praxis in Networked and Programmable Media
>>>> http://www.leoalmanac.org/journal/vol_14/lea_v14_n05-06/tpeterson.html
>>>> and more recently in the Leonardo Book Series at MIT Press we published
>>>> New Media Poetics: edited by Adalaide Morris and Thomas Swiss
>>>> http://leonardo.info/isast/leobooks/books/swissmorris.html
>>>> which documents some of the current work in new media poetics.
>>>>
>>>> In this YASMIN discussion we seek to discuss all the many ways that
>>>> poetry connects to the new sciences and the new technologies that
>>>> underpin so many of the new ways that we are becoming human.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>>
>>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>>
>>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
>>>> subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter
>>>> e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further
>>>> down the page.
>>>>
>>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
>>>> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
>>>> asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will
>>>> appear ("options page").
>>>>
>>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
>>>> "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 11:36:46 +1100
> From: Lisa Roberts <lisa@lisaroberts.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
> To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> Message-ID: <20101203113646.6f33d541@lisa-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi all,
>
> What a fascinating discussion.
>
> The empty page of the poet, like the white canvas of the
> painter, brings to the 'nothingness' of Antarctica. This space
> attracts artists and scientists to understand and find
> expressions for the forces that can be so clearly perceived
> and measured there.
>
> I have recently completed research for a PhD which involved
> working with scientists and artists to answer the question: How
> can animation be used to combine scientific data with
> subjective responses to Antarctica?
>
> Since graduating I have made the completed thesis
> (including animations) available online at
> www.antarcticanimation.com
>
> The following passages relate to the idea that 'keep an open structure
> of words and thougths'.In Antarctica, as in the Arctic, that is often
> perceived as an empty space can stimulate creative responses:
>
> 'Appearing and disappearing forms
> in the choreography of Bronwyn Judge reflect her experience of the
> 'nothingness' of Antarctica; of the world itself seeming to vanish:
>
> "Because of the silence, weather seemed to quietly come upon you. One
> minute there was cloud on the horizon and the next mist swirling in a
> disorientating fog about one so it was difficult to distinguish land
> from sky. The world disappeared" (Judge, 2009).
>
> ...
>
> The mirroring of clear body lines [in her choreographic response] work
> as a metaphor for sharpened perceptions. An actual duet can work to
> mirror responses between people. Judge's dancer dances with herself in
> an otherworldly space. This creates an impression of intense isolation;
> of being alone. And yet, as if from within the isolation, connection to
> the environment seems extended.
>
> ...
>
> After working on Antarctica's inland plateau for weeks at a time,
> glaciologist David Carter remarked on 'the nothingness that is
> Antarctica' (Carter in Roberts, 2008). Poet Stephen Wallace described
> Antarctica as 'the nothingness that is not there and the nothing that
> is' (McIntyre, 2005, p.3). Poet Rod Mallory uses the word 'Antarctic'
> to describe its topsy-turvy nature.
>
> The Antarctic,
>
> So unarctic,
>
> So Antarctic (Mallory in Hince, 2000, p.vii).
>
> After two months of working as an artist in Antarctica, Chris Drury
> wrote, 'I have tried to find ways of talking about the absolute
> nothingness of various experiences deep in Antarctica. In a sense this
> nothingness contains everything' (Drury in Gooding, 2007, p.5).
>
> Fox describes Antarctica as an environment where human desire for
> landscape is most evident because it is a void (Fox, 2007, p.253). He
> observes that some artists have transformed space into place there by
> cataloguing, abstracting, and physically placing objects into Antarctic
> space itself (Fox, 2007, p.253). The human form is used as a measure of
> human presence.'
>
> Lisa
>
>
> On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 21:40:02 +0000
> V?tor Reia-Baptista
>
>> Hi jared and all the others.
>> Yes the poem as a content and a form to fill the empty page - the
>> empty space, trying to keep an open structure of words and thougths,
>> seems to be a never ending vertigo into the void of the awareness of
>> the emptiness.
>> That is probably why you can never translate a poem, since each time
>> you put any words in any languge in that open page, you start a new
>> vertigo process.
>> That's why many times I prefer the spoken word form, filling the
>> interspace of freejazz than the written word filling the open space
>> of the empty page. You cqn listen to some exqmples of that in:
>> http://www.myspace.com/flajazzados
>> Best.
>> V?tor
>>
>> Quoting Jared Smith <smithjrw@comcast.net>:
>>
>> > Hi, Vitor and other Yasminers,
>> >
>> > What a fascinating conversation this is developing into! Your
>> > contribution here, Vitor, opens up the whole question of thought
>> > processes in poetry and the languages that represent those
>> > processes. Of course, on the most basic surface level, some of us
>> > may be most comfortable conversing in Italian or French or English
>> > or any other language native to a particular country or region.
>> > At a somewhat deeper level, we may be more comfortable conversing
>> > in light beams or music or mathematical symbols All of these
>> > symbols are, of course, just that: symbols that stand for the
>> > concrete statements we make or the meditations we set out upon.
>> > And David Morley's "Mathematics of Light" is a wonderful example of
>> > how one set of symbols may be merged within another. In our time,
>> > especially, one can do this with images that are complete
>> > pictures, as with digital poems and their interfaces, as Jason
>> > Nelson has just discussed in his post. The shadows of Plato's cave
>> > wall take on depth and become more interactive. And perhaps
>> > Knowledge (science) is allowed the chance to become closer to Art
>> > than to Craft--fact and not pretense?
>> >
>> > But the empty page, in any case, is what all these languages line
>> > their symbols down on. I wonder if there is value to thinking of
>> > the empty page as a scaffolding which symbols of whatever sort
>> > that compose a unity may be laid down. The symbols are
>> > statements. The scaffolding is the blank space across which those
>> > symbols play out--giving them nonlinear depth and meaning because
>> > we don't know how deep that space is or what its shape is. Nor
>> > does the mind try to measure the size of the paper or its
>> > infinitude. The mind does something else: it experiences the
>> > unknown space and makes of it what it will. It turns the finite
>> > into one or more possible definitions or discoveries of the
>> > infinite. And the poet, then, whether in light rays or mathematics
>> > or the contemplation of immigrants learns to convey that new
>> > possibility and discovery to others in a valid form. The poem
>> > happens, whatever language, within the mind, drawing from the
>> > structure on the page or visible through other symbols. It
>> > provides a setting for the symbols/data, and a tool for using them
>> > to create.
>> >
>> > My Best,
>> > Jared Smith
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 11/30/2010 1:41 AM, V?tor Reia-Baptista wrote:
>> >> Hi Everybody.
>> >>
>> >> My name is V?tor Reia-Baptista and I work at the University of
>> >> Algarve, in South Portugal, where we have a research centre on
>> >> Arts and Communication - CIAC (Centro de Investiga??o em Artes e
>> >> Comunica??o)
>> >> http://www.ciac.pt/en/index.php
>> >>
>> >> I do not have anu direct answer to Roger questions and I don't
>> >> know if they exist in general, but I'm certain that they apply to
>> >> many of our human kind situations: we do need poetry, in
>> >> different shapes and different states of mind and materia.
>> >>
>> >> So, here are some starting contributes for a discussion maybe
>> >> also around the way Tekn? makes Poietike possible, through
>> >> knowledge (Science) made visible by Art crafts?
>> >>
>> >> Dave Morley, author of the poem ?Mathematics of Light?
>> >> <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/mathematics-of-light.htm>;
>> >> wrote:
>> >> ?Think of an empty page as open space. It possesses no dimension.
>> >> Human time makes no claim. Everything is possible, at this point
>> >> endlessly possible. Anything can grow in it. Anybody, real or
>> >> imaginary, can travel there, stay put, or move on. There is no
>> >> constraint, except the honesty of the writer and the scope of
>> >> imagination-qualities with which we are born and characteristics
>> >> that we can develop. Writers are born and made.?
>> >>
>> >> This contribute may be found in the site of the Centre for Poetry
>> >> and Science at the University of Liverpool:
>> >> <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/index.htm>;
>> >>
>> >> From another perspective the Poetry Foudation claims that there
>> >> are (at least) 1875 Poems about Arts & Sciences, such as the
>> >> ?Equation for my Children? by Wilmer Mills:
>> >> http://atirateaomar.blogspot.com/
>> >>
>> >> Best wishes.
>> >> V?tor Reia
>> >>
>> >> Citando roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>:
>> >>
>> >>> Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
>> >>> Opening Statement by YASMIN co moderator Roger Malina
>> >>>
>> >>> Poetry in the Asylum:
>> >>>
>> >>> There have been times in my life when I have been a voracious
>> >>> reader, and sometime writer, of poetry. Sometimes this state is
>> >>> triggered by jet lag. At those times I consume and generate
>> >>> poetry as if my very survival depended on it. At other times I am
>> >>> cold to poetry.
>> >>>
>> >>> My Czech grandparents were both musicians and music teachers and
>> >>> they raised my father in a home where music was almost a basic
>> >>> food. He used to listen to music as he carried out his scientific
>> >>> research in the 30s, and later as he created his kinetic art
>> >>> works in the 1950s; his seminal work ?Jazz?:
>> >>> (http://www.olats.org/pionniers/malina/bdd/oeuvre.php?oi=1201)
>> >>> is a visual poem linking sound and image. It was during this time
>> >>> that he was at personal risk, pursued by the US McCarthy staffers
>> >>> and the US FBI. Then suddenly in his 50s, after his political
>> >>> problems were over, he became oblivious to music and painted in
>> >>> silence for the rest of his life. Is this a coincidence or a
>> >>> connection? What is it that makes poetry vital for survival? We
>> >>> live in a dangerous age, do we need a new poetics?
>> >>>
>> >>> In recent decades, much of the art connected to science and new
>> >>> technologies has been non contemplative, often loud and insistent,
>> >>> un-poetical. But other artists, and poets, as they have explored
>> >>> these new terrains have developed new poetic impulses that have
>> >>> created new senses of the special and even the sacred. Examples
>> >>> come to mind that I would put in the category of poetic arts
>> >>> would include:
>> >>>
>> >>> Jeffrey Shaw?s ?Legible City :
>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61l7Y4MS4aU Char
>> >>> Davies ?Ephemere?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa_aiw7yhpI
>> >>> David Rokeby?s ?Very Nervous System? :
>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrawKucSSRw Mark Hansen and Ben
>> >>> Rubin?s Listening post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD36IajCz6A
>> >>>
>> >>> The invited respondents in this discussion have a variety of
>> >>> approaches to poetry that connects to the sciences and technology
>> >>> of our age.
>> >>>
>> >>> When historian Robert Ilbert asked Samuel Bordreuil and I to
>> >>> set up the Art-Science wing of IMERA:
>> >>> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/organisation/101.html
>> >>> he named it : ASIL, or the French word for Asylum, with the
>> >>> acronym Arts-Sciences-Instrumentations-Language . Indeed the
>> >>> connections between the arts, sciences and technology must also
>> >>> be mediated by languages both image and word, and in particular
>> >>> by art forms that use language as their raw material. We have
>> >>> recently issued a new call for residency proposals :
>> >>> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/becoming-a-fellow/applications.html
>> >>> and we welcome proposals from poets that need to collaborate with
>> >>> scientists or research engineers to achieve their artistic
>> >>> vision. We need poetry in the Asylum.
>> >>>
>> >>> Ten years ago poet Tim Peterson, a participant in this
>> >>> discussion, led a Leonardo Electronic Almanac project around the
>> >>> new poetics : New Media Poetry and Poetics
>> >>>> From Concrete to Codework: Praxis in Networked and Programmable
>> >>>> Media
>> >>> http://www.leoalmanac.org/journal/vol_14/lea_v14_n05-06/tpeterson.html
>> >>> and more recently in the Leonardo Book Series at MIT Press we
>> >>> published New Media Poetics: edited by Adalaide Morris and Thomas
>> >>> Swiss http://leonardo.info/isast/leobooks/books/swissmorris.html
>> >>> which documents some of the current work in new media poetics.
>> >>>
>> >>> In this YASMIN discussion we seek to discuss all the many ways
>> >>> that poetry connects to the new sciences and the new technologies
>> >>> that underpin so many of the new ways that we are becoming human.
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> >>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> >>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>> >>>
>> >>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>> >>>
>> >>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
>> >>> subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter
>> >>> e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further
>> >>> down the page.
>> >>>
>> >>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down
>> >>> and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password
>> >>> if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will
>> >>> appear ("options page").
>> >>>
>> >>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find
>> >>> the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> >> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> >> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
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>> >> the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
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>> >> -----
>> >> No virus found in this message.
>> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> >> Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3287 - Release Date:
>> >> 11/29/10
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> > Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> > http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>> >
>> > Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>> >
>> > HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
>> > subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter
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>> > down the page.
>> >
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>> > enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
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>> > "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>
>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>
>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
>> to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
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>
>
> ---------------------------
>
> Lisa Roberts
>
> www.lisaroberts.com.au
> www.antarcticanimation.com
>
> Post:-
> 73 Camden Street
> Newtown NSW
> Australia 2042
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 23:52:01 -0800 (PST)
> From: ramon guardans <kkursk@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
> To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> Message-ID: <586126.36144.qm@web113518.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> One point that sould be noted is that as much as science and poetry interact and overlap in the production of beauty and positive social constructions
>
> science and poetry are also indispensable components of all massacres, wars and monstrosities that the human group is putting together today and has in the course of history
>
> the construction of spurious certitudes, nationalism and fanaticism rely
> on wine and poetry, but you can substitute the wine by other substances,
> the need-use of science and technology to amplify killing power does not need to be ellaborated
>
> Is there anything practical that can be said or done about this relation?,
> One thing i would say is that in the future it might be wise to pay more attention to the unpoetic and very effective stategies of ignorance technology, te deliberate and industrial production of unknowledge, confusion and fear
>
> Currently and in history much work, poetic and scientific has been devoted to produce and difuse ignorance, prejudice and confusion, this could be adressed and one way to proceed is by including forms of quality control , sort of cheks on the validity and logic of statements and propositions, science and poetry have proven to be able to do that
>
> cordially
> r
>
> --- On Wed, 12/1/10, Jared Smith <smithjrw@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Jared Smith <smithjrw@comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
>> To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 4:32 PM
>> Hi, Vitor and other Yasminers,
>>
>> What a fascinating conversation this is developing
>> into!? Your contribution here, Vitor, opens up the
>> whole question of thought processes in poetry and the
>> languages that represent those processes.? Of course,
>> on the most basic surface level, some of us may be most
>> comfortable conversing in Italian or French or English or
>> any other language native to a particular country or
>> region.? At a somewhat deeper level, we may be more
>> comfortable conversing in light beams or music or
>> mathematical symbols? All of these symbols are, of
>> course, just that: symbols that stand for the concrete
>> statements we make or the meditations we set out upon.?
>> And David Morley's "Mathematics of Light" is a wonderful
>> example of how one set of symbols may be merged within
>> another.? In our time, especially, one can do this with
>> images that are complete pictures, as with digital poems and
>> their interfaces, as Jason Nelson has just discussed in his
>> post.? The shadows of Plato's cave wall take on depth
>> and become more interactive.? And perhaps Knowledge
>> (science) is allowed the chance to become closer to Art than
>> to Craft--fact and not pretense?
>>
>> But the empty page, in any case, is what all these
>> languages line their symbols down on.? I wonder if
>> there is value to thinking of the empty page as a
>> scaffolding which symbols of whatever sort that compose a
>> unity may be laid down.? The symbols are
>> statements.? The scaffolding is the blank space across
>> which those symbols play out--giving them nonlinear depth
>> and meaning because we don't know how deep that space is or
>> what its shape is.? Nor does the mind try to measure
>> the size of the paper or its infinitude.? The mind does
>> something else: it experiences the unknown space and makes
>> of it what it will.? It turns the finite into one or
>> more possible definitions or discoveries of the
>> infinite.? And the poet, then, whether in light rays or
>> mathematics or the contemplation of immigrants learns to
>> convey that? new possibility and discovery to others in
>> a valid form.? The poem happens, whatever language,
>> within the mind, drawing from the structure on the page or
>> visible through other symbols.? It provides a setting
>> for the symbols/data, and a tool for using them to create.
>>
>> My Best,
>> Jared Smith
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/30/2010 1:41 AM, V?tor Reia-Baptista wrote:
>> > Hi Everybody.
>> >
>> > My name is V?tor Reia-Baptista and I work at the
>> University of Algarve, in South Portugal, where we have a
>> research centre on Arts and Communication - CIAC (Centro de
>> Investiga??o em Artes e Comunica??o)
>> > http://www.ciac.pt/en/index.php
>> >
>> > I do not have anu direct answer to Roger questions and
>> I don't know if they exist in general, but I'm certain that
>> they apply to many of our human kind situations: we do need
>> poetry, in different shapes and different states of mind and
>> materia.
>> >
>> > So, here are some starting contributes for a
>> discussion maybe also around the way Tekn? makes Poietike
>> possible, through knowledge (Science) made visible by Art
>> crafts?
>> >
>> > Dave Morley, author of the poem ?Mathematics of
>> Light?
>> > <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/mathematics-of-light.htm>;
>> > wrote:
>> > ?Think of an empty page as open space. It possesses
>> no dimension. Human time
>> > makes no claim. Everything is possible, at this point
>> endlessly possible.
>> > Anything can grow in it. Anybody, real or imaginary,
>> can travel there, stay
>> > put, or move on. There is no constraint, except the
>> honesty of the writer
>> > and the scope of imagination-qualities with which we
>> are born and
>> > characteristics that we can develop. Writers are born
>> and made.?
>> >
>> > This contribute may be found in the site of the Centre
>> for Poetry and
>> > Science at the University of Liverpool:
>> > <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/index.htm>;
>> >
>> > From another perspective the Poetry Foudation claims
>> that there are (at
>> > least) 1875 Poems about Arts & Sciences, such as
>> the ?Equation for my
>> > Children? by Wilmer Mills:
>> > http://atirateaomar.blogspot.com/
>> >
>> > Best wishes.
>> > V?tor Reia
>> >
>> > Citando roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>:
>> >
>> >> Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
>> >> Opening Statement by YASMIN co moderator Roger
>> Malina
>> >>
>> >> Poetry in the Asylum:
>> >>
>> >>? ???There have been times in
>> my life when I have been a voracious reader,
>> >> and sometime writer, of poetry. Sometimes this
>> state is triggered by
>> >> jet lag. At those times I consume and generate
>> poetry as if my very
>> >> survival depended on it. At other times I am cold
>> to poetry.
>> >>
>> >> My Czech grandparents were both musicians and
>> music teachers and they
>> >> raised my father in a home where music was almost
>> a basic food. He
>> >> used to listen to music as he carried out his
>> scientific research in
>> >> the 30s, and later as he created his kinetic art
>> works in the 1950s;
>> >> his seminal work ?Jazz?:
>> >> (http://www.olats.org/pionniers/malina/bdd/oeuvre.php?oi=1201)
>> >> is a visual poem linking sound and image. It was
>> during this time that
>> >> he was at personal risk, pursued by the US
>> McCarthy staffers and the
>> >> US FBI. Then suddenly in his 50s, after his
>> political problems were
>> >> over, he became oblivious to music and painted in
>> silence for the rest
>> >> of his life. Is this a coincidence or a
>> connection? What is it that
>> >> makes poetry vital for survival? We live in a
>> dangerous age, do we
>> >> need a new poetics?
>> >>
>> >>? ???In recent decades, much of
>> the art connected to science and new
>> >> technologies has been non contemplative, often
>> loud and insistent,
>> >> un-poetical. But other artists, and poets, as they
>> have explored these
>> >> new terrains have developed new poetic impulses
>> that have created new
>> >> senses of the special and even the sacred.
>> Examples come to mind that
>> >> I would put in the category of poetic arts would
>> include:
>> >>
>> >> Jeffrey Shaw?s ?Legible City : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61l7Y4MS4aU
>> >> Char Davies ?Ephemere?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa_aiw7yhpI
>> >> David Rokeby?s ?Very Nervous System? :
>> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrawKucSSRw
>> >> Mark Hansen and Ben Rubin?s Listening post:
>> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD36IajCz6A
>> >>
>> >> The invited respondents in this discussion have a
>> variety of
>> >> approaches to poetry that connects to the sciences
>> and technology of
>> >> our age.
>> >>
>> >>? ???When historian Robert
>> Ilbert asked Samuel Bordreuil and I to set up
>> >> the Art-Science wing of IMERA:
>> >> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/organisation/101.html
>> >> he named it : ASIL, or the French word for Asylum,
>> with the acronym
>> >> Arts-Sciences-Instrumentations-Language . Indeed
>> the connections
>> >> between the arts, sciences and technology must
>> also be mediated by
>> >> languages both image and word, and in particular
>> by art forms that use
>> >> language as their raw material. We have recently
>> issued a new call for
>> >> residency proposals :
>> >> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/becoming-a-fellow/applications.html
>> >> and we welcome proposals from poets that need to
>> collaborate with
>> >> scientists or research engineers to achieve their
>> artistic vision. We
>> >> need poetry in the Asylum.
>> >>
>> >>? ???Ten years ago poet Tim
>> Peterson, a participant in this discussion,
>> >> led a Leonardo Electronic Almanac project around
>> the new poetics :
>> >> New Media Poetry and Poetics
>> >>> From Concrete to Codework: Praxis in Networked
>> and Programmable Media
>> >> http://www.leoalmanac.org/journal/vol_14/lea_v14_n05-06/tpeterson.html
>> >> and more recently in the Leonardo Book Series at
>> MIT Press we published
>> >> New Media Poetics: edited by Adalaide Morris and
>> Thomas Swiss
>> >> http://leonardo.info/isast/leobooks/books/swissmorris.html
>> >> which documents some of the current work in new
>> media poetics.
>> >>
>> >> In this YASMIN discussion we seek to discuss all
>> the many ways that
>> >> poetry connects to the new sciences and the new
>> technologies that
>> >> underpin so many of the new ways that we are
>> becoming human.
>> >>
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