I´m at the end of my research
so I couldn´t participate as I wished to this discussion
I´m not good at that kind of discussion online anyway
I can only give few informations quickly
as any other domain of research there is universal references and beginnings
the most interesting reference in poetry vanguard
is a Russian futurist poet
Velimir Khlebnikov
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velimir_Khlebnikov
which have invented the "Super Tale"
in the book Zangezi in 1915
and a poetic language
the Zaum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaum
If somebody is really interested I think that I have the re-transcription of
the "Math language" and the "Bird talk" chapters in English and in French in
my computer at home in Rio (I´ll be there in 2 weeks),
It has been done as a radio play by Peter Sellars at the end of
the eighties,
if somebody can get the tape I´m very interested too,
I have lost mine,
it was a very brilliant adaptation,
I have work on this text as a collaborator for the opening show of the
Contemporary Art Museum of Montreal in 1992,
I was supposed to direct it for a innovative American puppet company "Great
Small Works" which have received a Grant for this project from the Jim
Henson Foundation in 2002 but they didn´t go forward.
This text is a kind of archeological reference of Oulipo
http://www.oulipo.net/
so if somebody is interested to work on a production around this repertory,
I will be very happy to join a collaboration on this specific moment of
poetry history.
Zaven
*****************************************************************
Zaven Paré
Visitor researcher
Ishiguro Laboratory
Department of Systems Innovation
Osaka University
D458, 1-3, Machikaneyama, Toyonaka 560-8531, Osaka
Japan
*******************************************************************
2010/12/2 Vítor Reia-Baptista <vreia@ualg.pt>
> Hi jared and all the others.
> Yes the poem as a content and a form to fill the empty page - the empty
> space, trying to keep an open structure of words and thougths, seems to be a
> never ending vertigo into the void of the awareness of the emptiness.
> That is probably why you can never translate a poem, since each time you
> put any words in any languge in that open page, you start a new vertigo
> process.
> That's why many times I prefer the spoken word form, filling the interspace
> of freejazz than the written word filling the open space of the empty page.
> You cqn listen to some exqmples of that in:
> http://www.myspace.com/flajazzados
> Best.
> Vítor
>
>
> Quoting Jared Smith <smithjrw@comcast.net>:
>
> Hi, Vitor and other Yasminers,
>>
>> What a fascinating conversation this is developing into! Your
>> contribution here, Vitor, opens up the whole question of thought processes
>> in poetry and the languages that represent those processes. Of course, on
>> the most basic surface level, some of us may be most comfortable conversing
>> in Italian or French or English or any other language native to a particular
>> country or region. At a somewhat deeper level, we may be more comfortable
>> conversing in light beams or music or mathematical symbols All of these
>> symbols are, of course, just that: symbols that stand for the concrete
>> statements we make or the meditations we set out upon. And David Morley's
>> "Mathematics of Light" is a wonderful example of how one set of symbols may
>> be merged within another. In our time, especially, one can do this with
>> images that are complete pictures, as with digital poems and their
>> interfaces, as Jason Nelson has just discussed in his post. The shadows of
>> Plato's cave wall take on depth and become more interactive. And perhaps
>> Knowledge (science) is allowed the chance to become closer to Art than to
>> Craft--fact and not pretense?
>>
>> But the empty page, in any case, is what all these languages line their
>> symbols down on. I wonder if there is value to thinking of the empty page
>> as a scaffolding which symbols of whatever sort that compose a unity may be
>> laid down. The symbols are statements. The scaffolding is the blank space
>> across which those symbols play out--giving them nonlinear depth and meaning
>> because we don't know how deep that space is or what its shape is. Nor does
>> the mind try to measure the size of the paper or its infinitude. The mind
>> does something else: it experiences the unknown space and makes of it what
>> it will. It turns the finite into one or more possible definitions or
>> discoveries of the infinite. And the poet, then, whether in light rays or
>> mathematics or the contemplation of immigrants learns to convey that new
>> possibility and discovery to others in a valid form. The poem happens,
>> whatever language, within the mind, drawing from the structure on the page
>> or visible through other symbols. It provides a setting for the
>> symbols/data, and a tool for using them to create.
>>
>> My Best,
>> Jared Smith
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/30/2010 1:41 AM, Vítor Reia-Baptista wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Everybody.
>>>
>>> My name is Vítor Reia-Baptista and I work at the University of Algarve,
>>> in South Portugal, where we have a research centre on Arts and Communication
>>> - CIAC (Centro de Investigação em Artes e Comunicação)
>>> http://www.ciac.pt/en/index.php
>>>
>>> I do not have anu direct answer to Roger questions and I don't know if
>>> they exist in general, but I'm certain that they apply to many of our human
>>> kind situations: we do need poetry, in different shapes and different states
>>> of mind and materia.
>>>
>>> So, here are some starting contributes for a discussion maybe also around
>>> the way Teknè makes Poietike possible, through knowledge (Science) made
>>> visible by Art crafts?
>>>
>>> Dave Morley, author of the poem «Mathematics of Light»
>>> <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/mathematics-of-light.htm>;
>>> wrote:
>>> «Think of an empty page as open space. It possesses no dimension. Human
>>> time
>>> makes no claim. Everything is possible, at this point endlessly possible.
>>> Anything can grow in it. Anybody, real or imaginary, can travel there,
>>> stay
>>> put, or move on. There is no constraint, except the honesty of the writer
>>> and the scope of imagination-qualities with which we are born and
>>> characteristics that we can develop. Writers are born and made.»
>>>
>>> This contribute may be found in the site of the Centre for Poetry and
>>> Science at the University of Liverpool:
>>> <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/index.htm>;
>>>
>>> From another perspective the Poetry Foudation claims that there are (at
>>> least) 1875 Poems about Arts & Sciences, such as the «Equation for my
>>> Children» by Wilmer Mills:
>>> http://atirateaomar.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>> Best wishes.
>>> Vítor Reia
>>>
>>> Citando roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>:
>>>
>>> Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
>>>> Opening Statement by YASMIN co moderator Roger Malina
>>>>
>>>> Poetry in the Asylum:
>>>>
>>>> There have been times in my life when I have been a voracious reader,
>>>> and sometime writer, of poetry. Sometimes this state is triggered by
>>>> jet lag. At those times I consume and generate poetry as if my very
>>>> survival depended on it. At other times I am cold to poetry.
>>>>
>>>> My Czech grandparents were both musicians and music teachers and they
>>>> raised my father in a home where music was almost a basic food. He
>>>> used to listen to music as he carried out his scientific research in
>>>> the 30s, and later as he created his kinetic art works in the 1950s;
>>>> his seminal work ?Jazz?:
>>>> (http://www.olats.org/pionniers/malina/bdd/oeuvre.php?oi=1201)
>>>> is a visual poem linking sound and image. It was during this time that
>>>> he was at personal risk, pursued by the US McCarthy staffers and the
>>>> US FBI. Then suddenly in his 50s, after his political problems were
>>>> over, he became oblivious to music and painted in silence for the rest
>>>> of his life. Is this a coincidence or a connection? What is it that
>>>> makes poetry vital for survival? We live in a dangerous age, do we
>>>> need a new poetics?
>>>>
>>>> In recent decades, much of the art connected to science and new
>>>> technologies has been non contemplative, often loud and insistent,
>>>> un-poetical. But other artists, and poets, as they have explored these
>>>> new terrains have developed new poetic impulses that have created new
>>>> senses of the special and even the sacred. Examples come to mind that
>>>> I would put in the category of poetic arts would include:
>>>>
>>>> Jeffrey Shaw?s ?Legible City :
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61l7Y4MS4aU
>>>> Char Davies ?Ephemere?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa_aiw7yhpI
>>>> David Rokeby?s ?Very Nervous System? :
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrawKucSSRw
>>>> Mark Hansen and Ben Rubin?s Listening post:
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD36IajCz6A
>>>>
>>>> The invited respondents in this discussion have a variety of
>>>> approaches to poetry that connects to the sciences and technology of
>>>> our age.
>>>>
>>>> When historian Robert Ilbert asked Samuel Bordreuil and I to set up
>>>> the Art-Science wing of IMERA:
>>>> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/organisation/101.html
>>>> he named it : ASIL, or the French word for Asylum, with the acronym
>>>> Arts-Sciences-Instrumentations-Language . Indeed the connections
>>>> between the arts, sciences and technology must also be mediated by
>>>> languages both image and word, and in particular by art forms that use
>>>> language as their raw material. We have recently issued a new call for
>>>> residency proposals :
>>>> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/becoming-a-fellow/applications.html
>>>> and we welcome proposals from poets that need to collaborate with
>>>> scientists or research engineers to achieve their artistic vision. We
>>>> need poetry in the Asylum.
>>>>
>>>> Ten years ago poet Tim Peterson, a participant in this discussion,
>>>> led a Leonardo Electronic Almanac project around the new poetics :
>>>> New Media Poetry and Poetics
>>>>
>>>>> From Concrete to Codework: Praxis in Networked and Programmable Media
>>>>>
>>>> http://www.leoalmanac.org/journal/vol_14/lea_v14_n05-06/tpeterson.html
>>>> and more recently in the Leonardo Book Series at MIT Press we published
>>>> New Media Poetics: edited by Adalaide Morris and Thomas Swiss
>>>> http://leonardo.info/isast/leobooks/books/swissmorris.html
>>>> which documents some of the current work in new media poetics.
>>>>
>>>> In this YASMIN discussion we seek to discuss all the many ways that
>>>> poetry connects to the new sciences and the new technologies that
>>>> underpin so many of the new ways that we are becoming human.
>>>>
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