do with the amount of capital invested in them would it? Or is that
just another indicator of the power of discipline and direction? Will
poetry get get more money flung at it once it narrows its definition?
Starving artists are rare. Most poets earn enough for lunch, though
day jobs help. In some cultures, they even get respect as a side dish.
--- Paul
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Jared Smith <smithjrw@comcast.net> wrote:
> The problem with broad definitions is that they communicate nothing: they
> lack the discipline and direction that you require of science and
> technology. That is why poetry lacks the kind of respect disciplined
> science receives, and harking back on our converation, why a poet cannot get
> a lunch for his poems but a scientist can. Oppenheimer would not have
> called Mein Kampf a poem, nor would he have called Jihad a poem--though
> there are rhetorical and oratorical devices within each. You are being
> sloppy in your wording.
>
> Jared
>
>
>
> On 12/13/2010 6:49 AM, Simon Biggs wrote:
>>
>> A poem that starts a war can be called an info-bomb. I like to employ a
>> broad definition of poetry and poetics. Main Kampf has its poetic
>> elements.
>>
>> So does the rhetoric of Jihad. Perhaps even more so. Arabic is an
>> intrinsically evocative language. These are poems that start wars.
>>
>> Anything can be a weapon and what was intended as a weapon can be
>> anything.
>>
>> I thought that was the point of a flower in the barrel of a gun, or the
>> famous lyric of the Beatles:
>>
>> Happiness (is a warm gun)
>> Bang Bang Shoot Shoot
>> Happiness (is a warm gun, momma)
>> Bang Bang Shoot Shoot
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13/12/2010 07:25, "Paul Hertz"<ignotus@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Jared,
>>>
>>> Let me see if I understand. Psalm 137 ("By the waters of Babylon we sat
>>> down
>>> and wept"), a beautiful poem of longing and exile, which ends:
>>>
>>> "Oh daughter of Babylon, you devastator!
>>> Happy shall he be who requites you
>>> with what you have done to us!
>>> Happy shall he be who takes your little ones
>>> and dashes them against the rock!"
>>>
>>> would evidently be a "lower" form of art, since it clearly seeks to draw
>>> on
>>> the passions of the people to whom it is addressed and ends with what
>>> looks
>>> pretty unequivocally like a call to infanticide.
>>>
>>> You say that a poem has never started a war. If starting a war is matter
>>> of
>>> pulling triggers (or notching arrows, or dropping bombs) I suppose a poem
>>> never did this. A poem also never made lunch. But poetry and all other
>>> art
>>> is formed by the society in which it arises. Poems and language propagate
>>> the values of the cultures that produce them.
>>>
>>> If the Iliad glories in war, does it not then also have a responsibility
>>> in
>>> continuing wars? It may not immediately incite its listeners to take up
>>> arms, but it certainly propagates in them the core beliefs of a society,
>>> including the notion that war is heroic. We could well hold it guilty of
>>> starting many wars, just through propagating that one great lie "war is
>>> heroic."
>>>
>>> It is only our distance from the culture from which the Iliad sprang that
>>> allows us to consider it dispassionately, as what I suppose you may mean
>>> by
>>> "higher" art. Otherwise, we'd hear it as part of our own education as
>>> warriors or as mothers and wives of warriors. It is a great poem not
>>> because
>>> it is not calculated to incite the passions and lead people in a
>>> particular
>>> direction, but for the grandeur and scope of the language through which
>>> it
>>> does that very thing.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you conceive of "lower" poetry as that which is specifically
>>> intended as an instrument to incite, rather like a military march or a
>>> patriotic painting. Well, certainly there is a lot of "official" art that
>>> is
>>> truly bad, but I contend that that there is also plenty of great art that
>>> does incite, and quite consciously. So yes, perhaps a poem never started
>>> a
>>> war, but some poems keep war going. And occasionally a poem pays for
>>> lunch,
>>> in the style of Cyrano de Bergerac.
>>>
>>> The notion that it is desirable that a poem might "lie beyond such
>>> concerns"
>>> as inciting passion or action is itself a cultural attitude, and not
>>> something inherent in poetry as practiced through the ages. You may
>>> prefer
>>> poems that reflect that attitude or allow you to practice it, but that
>>> does
>>> not mean there is one cultural stream of "true" or "high" art producing
>>> dispassionate poetry and another of "low" or "false" art ruled by
>>> passion.
>>>
>>> Perhaps I misconstrue what you mean by these dichotomies of true/false or
>>> high/low, but in any case they strike me as implying a value judgment
>>> that I
>>> don't believe I share. I rather think I prefer poems that attempt to sway
>>> me. I enjoy being swayed, all the more if the workings of poetic language
>>> do
>>> so with a subtlety I can only decipher after the swaying.
>>>
>>> There are only choices about how to use language, not choices about its
>>> outcomes. By its very refusal to take sides, a dispassionate poem may be
>>> complicit in social evils--or it may open the way to settle a dispute. We
>>> may choose to use language passionately or dispassionately, to express
>>> our
>>> desire for peace, for war, for quietude or for lunch. We have done so for
>>> ages. There are no guarantees that language will have the effect we
>>> desire.
>>> It's that malleable. For better or worse, we ourselves are that
>>> malleable.
>>> We make our choices and hope for the best.
>>>
>>> best regards,
>>>
>>> -- Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Jared Smith<smithjrw@comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Paul,
>>>>
>>>> I would agree with most of what you say, and hope that you have not
>>>> labeled
>>>> me as one who would claim that poetry and art are "Innocent." Indeed,
>>>> they
>>>> are not. In speaking of true of false art, I meant to speak of false
>>>> art as
>>>> that which is consciously inspired or calculated to incite a particular
>>>> reaction by drawing upon the passions of a people and leading them in a
>>>> chosen direction--to war or to peace or wherever. Perhaps rather than
>>>> calling that a false art, I would have been clearer if I had called it a
>>>> "lower" art or poetry. A "higher" art of poetry, or as I unfortunately
>>>> termed it, a "true" poetry would be that which is as you say "not
>>>> innocent"
>>>> and not guilty, but partakes from all that is about us and brings all
>>>> that
>>>> it can perceive to bear on its experience. It is not innocent nor
>>>> guilty,
>>>> but lies outside and beyond such concerns.
>>>>
>>>> I think that we are in agreement on that, and that it is only the short
>>>> responses one is generally allowed in email discussions that may have
>>>> confused that issue--at least that my short response may have confused
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> What I was trying to address in Ramon's email, however, was that neither
>>>> art nor poetry start wars--and in fact, I believe they guard against
>>>> wars
>>>> because of their inclusion and giving voice to the feelings and passions
>>>> of
>>>> the people who create them within the society. I might simply have said
>>>> in
>>>> response to Ramon that Poetry is very powerful. But if one thinks it
>>>> causes
>>>> wars, one is greatly overestimating of misunderstanding that power. I
>>>> challenge anyone to name a war that was started by a poem.
>>>>
>>>> Jared
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/7/2010 3:39 PM, Paul Hertz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for the late entry, but I can't let this go unchallenged.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ramon Guardans said: "science and poetry are also indispensable
>>>>> components
>>>>> of all massacres, wars and monstrosities that the human group is
>>>>> putting
>>>>> together today and has in the course of history."
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is only to say that culture is not innocent. If it
>>>>> pretends
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>> *represent* all of human experience--and it does--then it seems to me
>>>>> that
>>>>> it must *partake* of all human experience, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> And how can we ascribe innocence to poetry, art, science or any other
>>>>> cultural manifestation we create if we cannot ascribe it to ourselves?
>>>>> I
>>>>> put
>>>>> it to you that no person is innocent: however much we attach the
>>>>> symbology
>>>>> of innocence to babies, women, clouds, souls, poetry or painting, each
>>>>> symbol and each reality remains stubbornly a part of society as a
>>>>> whole.
>>>>> There is no innocence apart. There are choices that lead to peace and
>>>>> dialog
>>>>> and there are choices that lead to lies and degradation, but once we
>>>>> claim
>>>>> our place in human society there are no choices that lead to innocence,
>>>>> any
>>>>>
>>>>> more than there are social movements that will take us home to utopia.
>>>>> There
>>>>> are only choices that will improve our collective lives or make them
>>>>> worse,
>>>>>
>>>>> and art may lie in helping us to distinguish them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Art is stained with living--or it isn't very good art.
>>>>>
>>>>> I imagine that Ernesto Cardenal spoke in this spirit when he declared
>>>>> that
>>>>> the poet "defends the people through language." Not because he offered
>>>>> innocence in his poems, but because he was ready to commit to living
>>>>> his
>>>>> choices through his words.
>>>>>
>>>>> And this undoubtedly means that art sometimes offers bad choices,
>>>>> aesthetics
>>>>> of death, celebrations of infamy. I have only to contemplate the
>>>>> several
>>>>> poetic traditions Ramon Menendez-Pidal gathered in his *Flor Nueva de
>>>>> Romances Viejas*, a wonderful anthology of medieval romances from
>>>>> Spain,
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>> realize that there is great art coming out of bitter conflict, and
>>>>> taking
>>>>> sides in such a way that the hero among the Mozarabes may be the
>>>>> villain
>>>>> among the Christians, and vice-versa. You may say these poems are only
>>>>> innocent tales--as though history in any form could be innocent--but
>>>>> may I
>>>>> suggest that they are both high art and poisoned by murderous,
>>>>> fratricidal
>>>>> war? They may not stir blood to anger now, but I'd wager once they did.
>>>>> No, you won't get away with claiming some special innocence for art,
>>>>> especially if it requires you make distinctions between false and true
>>>>> art.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is art that reaches out to us, as you say, but there is also art
>>>>> that
>>>>>
>>>>> intends to stir our rage. Trying to cage it in a "true/false" dichotomy
>>>>> will
>>>>> not suffice. It is language itself, the very material of which both
>>>>> your
>>>>> true and false poetry are made, that bears the stain. This holds, too,
>>>>> of
>>>>> other arts, though they do no operate with words. The compromise with
>>>>> communication is the compromise to be misunderstood, to be wrong, and
>>>>> to
>>>>> even to commit criminal acts. Art is many things, but it is not
>>>>> innocent.
>>>>> I
>>>>>
>>>>> dare say the same of science.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, if you ask me whether I believe that artists and musicians and
>>>>> poets
>>>>> are generally striving for peace and understanding--if you ask me
>>>>> whether
>>>>> I
>>>>>
>>>>> believe that culture offers a pathway for human beings to learn to live
>>>>> together--well, I will answer with a resounding YES. But is not at all
>>>>> the
>>>>> same as ascribing innocence to art.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think Ramon is spot on when he says that science and poetry are
>>>>> compromised not only with those aspects of culture that we hold to be
>>>>> positive, but with the negative as well. That is certainly how I read
>>>>> what
>>>>> he wrote. I really don't think we can study or perform art or science
>>>>> in
>>>>> all
>>>>> their depth and breadth without that realization. Without that
>>>>> realization,
>>>>>
>>>>> our choices of what we believe science and art should do into the
>>>>> future
>>>>> cannot be made as they must be made--with eyes open.
>>>>>
>>>>> My apologies to the apologists of innocence if I give offense, but,
>>>>> worthy
>>>>> people, you are mistaken if you think art or science are innocent.
>>>>>
>>>>> best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Jared Smith<smithjrw@comcast.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ramon,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Science may take part in the formation of warfare, as for example in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> creation of some of Leonardo's machines of war. But the scientific
>>>>>> process
>>>>>> itself has never driven war. And certainly poetry in its true
>>>>>> definition,
>>>>>> which includes communication of full thought and not just passionate
>>>>>> egotism, has NEVER driven war. U.S. Poet Laureate Ted Kooser has said
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> the foremost purpose of poetry is to communicate with people--and I
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> add that it is to communicate in ways that are outside our limited
>>>>>> commercial language. Probably 98% of the words we say each day equate
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> "what can I buy from you?" or "What will you trade me for...?" Poetry
>>>>>> takes
>>>>>> the vastness beyond those words, yet still contained within our
>>>>>> language,
>>>>>> and uses them to explore other issues that we perhaps feel more
>>>>>> deeply
>>>>>> though we don't discuss them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> False poetry--rhetoric/oratory--may be used to drive armies and false
>>>>>> ideas. We must as a culture understand, however, that there is a
>>>>>> difference
>>>>>> between false poetry --often passion or hate-driven egotism--and real
>>>>>> poetry
>>>>>> that reaches out to that which is larger. We make that distinction in
>>>>>> philosophy and have since Plato discussed rhetoricians and
>>>>>> philosophers
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> being two different types of people with different goals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Art--certainly poetic art--is a transcendent and inclusive process
>>>>>> conducted within oneself and perhaps later shared with others. It
>>>>>> does
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> lead to war.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jared
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/2/2010 12:52 AM, ramon guardans wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One point that sould be noted is that as much as science and poetry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> interact and overlap in the production of beauty and positive social
>>>>>>> constructions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> science and poetry are also indispensable components of all
>>>>>>> massacres,
>>>>>>> wars and monstrosities that the human group is putting together today
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> has in the course of history
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the construction of spurious certitudes, nationalism and fanaticism
>>>>>>> rely
>>>>>>> on wine and poetry, but you can substitute the wine by other
>>>>>>> substances,
>>>>>>> the need-use of science and technology to amplify killing power does
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> need to be ellaborated
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there anything practical that can be said or done about this
>>>>>>> relation?,
>>>>>>> One thing i would say is that in the future it might be wise to pay
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> attention to the unpoetic and very effective stategies of ignorance
>>>>>>> technology, te deliberate and industrial production of unknowledge,
>>>>>>> confusion and fear
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Currently and in history much work, poetic and scientific has been
>>>>>>> devoted to produce and difuse ignorance, prejudice and confusion,
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> be adressed and one way to proceed is by including forms of quality
>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>> , sort of cheks on the validity and logic of statements and
>>>>>>> propositions,
>>>>>>> science and poetry have proven to be able to do that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cordially
>>>>>>> r
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 12/1/10, Jared Smith<smithjrw@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Jared Smith<smithjrw@comcast.net>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
>>>>>>>> To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 4:32 PM
>>>>>>>> Hi, Vitor and other Yasminers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What a fascinating conversation this is developing
>>>>>>>> into! Your contribution here, Vitor, opens up the
>>>>>>>> whole question of thought processes in poetry and the
>>>>>>>> languages that represent those processes. Of course,
>>>>>>>> on the most basic surface level, some of us may be most
>>>>>>>> comfortable conversing in Italian or French or English or
>>>>>>>> any other language native to a particular country or
>>>>>>>> region. At a somewhat deeper level, we may be more
>>>>>>>> comfortable conversing in light beams or music or
>>>>>>>> mathematical symbols All of these symbols are, of
>>>>>>>> course, just that: symbols that stand for the concrete
>>>>>>>> statements we make or the meditations we set out upon. And David
>>>>>>>> Morley's
>>>>>>>> "Mathematics of Light" is a wonderful
>>>>>>>> example of how one set of symbols may be merged within
>>>>>>>> another. In our time, especially, one can do this with
>>>>>>>> images that are complete pictures, as with digital poems and
>>>>>>>> their interfaces, as Jason Nelson has just discussed in his
>>>>>>>> post. The shadows of Plato's cave wall take on depth
>>>>>>>> and become more interactive. And perhaps Knowledge
>>>>>>>> (science) is allowed the chance to become closer to Art than
>>>>>>>> to Craft--fact and not pretense?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But the empty page, in any case, is what all these
>>>>>>>> languages line their symbols down on. I wonder if
>>>>>>>> there is value to thinking of the empty page as a
>>>>>>>> scaffolding which symbols of whatever sort that compose a
>>>>>>>> unity may be laid down. The symbols are
>>>>>>>> statements. The scaffolding is the blank space across
>>>>>>>> which those symbols play out--giving them nonlinear depth
>>>>>>>> and meaning because we don't know how deep that space is or
>>>>>>>> what its shape is. Nor does the mind try to measure
>>>>>>>> the size of the paper or its infinitude. The mind does
>>>>>>>> something else: it experiences the unknown space and makes
>>>>>>>> of it what it will. It turns the finite into one or
>>>>>>>> more possible definitions or discoveries of the
>>>>>>>> infinite. And the poet, then, whether in light rays or
>>>>>>>> mathematics or the contemplation of immigrants learns to
>>>>>>>> convey that new possibility and discovery to others in
>>>>>>>> a valid form. The poem happens, whatever language,
>>>>>>>> within the mind, drawing from the structure on the page or
>>>>>>>> visible through other symbols. It provides a setting
>>>>>>>> for the symbols/data, and a tool for using them to create.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My Best,
>>>>>>>> Jared Smith
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/30/2010 1:41 AM, Vítor Reia-Baptista wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Everybody.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My name is Vítor Reia-Baptista and I work at the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> University of Algarve, in South Portugal, where we have a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> research centre on Arts and Communication - CIAC (Centro de
>>>>>>>> Investigação em Artes e Comunicação)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.ciac.pt/en/index.php
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I do not have anu direct answer to Roger questions and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't know if they exist in general, but I'm certain that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> they apply to many of our human kind situations: we do need
>>>>>>>> poetry, in different shapes and different states of mind and
>>>>>>>> materia.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, here are some starting contributes for a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> discussion maybe also around the way Teknè makes Poietike
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> possible, through knowledge (Science) made visible by Art
>>>>>>>> crafts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dave Morley, author of the poem «Mathematics of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Light»
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/mathematics-of-light.htm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> «Think of an empty page as open space. It possesses
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> no dimension. Human time
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> makes no claim. Everything is possible, at this point
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> endlessly possible.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anything can grow in it. Anybody, real or imaginary,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> can travel there, stay
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> put, or move on. There is no constraint, except the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> honesty of the writer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and the scope of imagination-qualities with which we
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> are born and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> characteristics that we can develop. Writers are born
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and made.»
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This contribute may be found in the site of the Centre
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for Poetry and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Science at the University of Liverpool:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/index.htm>;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From another perspective the Poetry Foudation claims
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> that there are (at
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> least) 1875 Poems about Arts& Sciences, such as
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the «Equation for my
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Children» by Wilmer Mills:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://atirateaomar.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best wishes.
>>>>>>>>> Vítor Reia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Citando roger malina<rmalina@alum.mit.edu>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Opening Statement by YASMIN co moderator Roger
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Malina
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Poetry in the Asylum:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There have been times in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> my life when I have been a voracious reader,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and sometime writer, of poetry. Sometimes this
>>>>>>>>> state is triggered by
>>>>>>>>> jet lag. At those times I consume and generate
>>>>>>>>> poetry as if my very
>>>>>>>>> survival depended on it. At other times I am cold
>>>>>>>>> to poetry.
>>>>>>>>> My Czech grandparents were both musicians and
>>>>>>>>> music teachers and they
>>>>>>>>> raised my father in a home where music was almost
>>>>>>>>> a basic food. He
>>>>>>>>> used to listen to music as he carried out his
>>>>>>>>> scientific research in
>>>>>>>>> the 30s, and later as he created his kinetic art
>>>>>>>>> works in the 1950s;
>>>>>>>>> his seminal work ³Jazz²:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (http://www.olats.org/pionniers/malina/bdd/oeuvre.php?oi=1201)
>>>>>>>>>> is a visual poem linking sound and image. It was
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> during this time that
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> he was at personal risk, pursued by the US
>>>>>>>>> McCarthy staffers and the
>>>>>>>>> US FBI. Then suddenly in his 50s, after his
>>>>>>>>> political problems were
>>>>>>>>> over, he became oblivious to music and painted in
>>>>>>>>> silence for the rest
>>>>>>>>> of his life. Is this a coincidence or a
>>>>>>>>> connection? What is it that
>>>>>>>>> makes poetry vital for survival? We live in a
>>>>>>>>> dangerous age, do we
>>>>>>>>> need a new poetics?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In recent decades, much of
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the art connected to science and new
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> technologies has been non contemplative, often
>>>>>>>>> loud and insistent,
>>>>>>>>> un-poetical. But other artists, and poets, as they
>>>>>>>>> have explored these
>>>>>>>>> new terrains have developed new poetic impulses
>>>>>>>>> that have created new
>>>>>>>>> senses of the special and even the sacred.
>>>>>>>>> Examples come to mind that
>>>>>>>>> I would put in the category of poetic arts would
>>>>>>>>> include:
>>>>>>>>> Jeffrey Shaw¹s ³Legible City :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61l7Y4MS4aU
>>>>>>>>>> Char Davies ³Ephemere²: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa_aiw7yhpI
>>>>>>>>>> David Rokeby¹s ³Very Nervous System² :
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrawKucSSRw
>>>>>>>>>> Mark Hansen and Ben Rubin¹s Listening post:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD36IajCz6A
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The invited respondents in this discussion have a
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> variety of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> approaches to poetry that connects to the sciences
>>>>>>>>> and technology of
>>>>>>>>> our age.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When historian Robert
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ilbert asked Samuel Bordreuil and I to set up
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the Art-Science wing of IMERA:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/organisation/101.html
>>>>>>>>>> he named it : ASIL, or the French word for Asylum,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> with the acronym
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Arts-Sciences-Instrumentations-Language . Indeed
>>>>>>>>> the connections
>>>>>>>>> between the arts, sciences and technology must
>>>>>>>>> also be mediated by
>>>>>>>>> languages both image and word, and in particular
>>>>>>>>> by art forms that use
>>>>>>>>> language as their raw material. We have recently
>>>>>>>>> issued a new call for
>>>>>>>>> residency proposals :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/becoming-a-fellow/applications.html
>>>>>>>>>> and we welcome proposals from poets that need to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> collaborate with
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> scientists or research engineers to achieve their
>>>>>>>>> artistic vision. We
>>>>>>>>> need poetry in the Asylum.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ten years ago poet Tim
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Peterson, a participant in this discussion,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> led a Leonardo Electronic Almanac project around
>>>>>>>>> the new poetics :
>>>>>>>>> New Media Poetry and Poetics
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From Concrete to Codework: Praxis in Networked
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and Programmable Media
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.leoalmanac.org/journal/vol_14/lea_v14_n05-06/tpeterson.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and more recently in the Leonardo Book Series at
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> MIT Press we published
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> New Media Poetics: edited by Adalaide Morris and
>>>>>>>>> Thomas Swiss
>>>>>>>>> http://leonardo.info/isast/leobooks/books/swissmorris.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> which documents some of the current work in new
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> media poetics.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In this YASMIN discussion we seek to discuss all
>>>>>>>>> the many ways that
>>>>>>>>> poetry connects to the new sciences and the new
>>>>>>>>> technologies that
>>>>>>>>> underpin so many of the new ways that we are
>>>>>>>>> becoming human.
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
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>>>>>>>>> wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the
>>>>>>>> fields found further down the page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on
>>>>>>>> the page that will appear ("options page").
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> on or off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>> Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3287 -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Release Date: 11/29/10
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>>>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
>>>>>>>> subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"),
>>>>>>>> enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found
>>>>>>>> further down the page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way
>>>>>>>> down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter
>>>>>>>> password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the
>>>>>>>> page that will appear ("options page").
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page,
>>>>>>>> find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or
>>>>>>>> off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
>>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
>>>>>>> name,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> password in the fields found further down the page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
>>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>>>>>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
>>>>>>> "Set
>>>>>>> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>> Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3291 - Release Date:
>>>>>>> 12/01/10
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
>>>>>> to.
>>>>>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
>>>>>> name,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> password in the fields found further down the page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
>>>>>> enter
>>>>>> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
>>>>>> "Set
>>>>>> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>>>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>>>
>>>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>>>
>>>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe
>>>> to.
>>>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name,
>>>> and
>>>> password in the fields found further down the page.
>>>>
>>>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
>>>> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on
>>>> the
>>>> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>>>>
>>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
>>>> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Simon
>>
>> simon@littlepig.org.uk
>> http://www.littlepig.org.uk/
>>
>> s.biggs@eca.ac.uk
>> http://www.elmcip.net/
>> http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>
>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>
>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to.
>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
>> password in the fields found further down the page.
>>
>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter
>> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
>> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>>
>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
>> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3317 - Release Date: 12/15/10
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In
> the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and
> password in the fields found further down the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your
> e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the
> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set
> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>
--
----- |(*,+,#,=)(#,=,*,+)(=,#,+,*)(+,*,=,#)| ---
http://ignotus.com
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
