Liliane also mentioned to me that with her 1968 Poem Machine called E=MC3 ''playfully questioning the now constant of the speed of light, I anticipated the recent work of cosmologists such as Joao Maguiejo at Imperial College''
http://www.englandgallery.com/artist_work.php?mainId=46&groupId=none&_gnum=8&media=Sculpture&_p=8
& for cited evidence of her influence on Imperial college engineers please see:
http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm?articleid=1806110
and beady eyed Yasminers will note that one of the scientists involved is called Latham, John Paul, son of the infamous wonderful John http://www.flattimeho.org.uk/
Bronac
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Avi Rosen <avi@siglab.technion.ac.il>
Date: 15 December 2010 13:26
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
Hi Simon,
According to E=MC2 the short poem can cause a cyber-chain reaction...
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....
-----Original Message-----
From: yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr
[mailto:yasmin_discussions-bounces@estia.media.uoa.gr] On Behalf Of Simon
Biggs
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 3:49 PM
To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
A poem that starts a war can be called an info-bomb. I like to employ a
broad definition of poetry and poetics. Main Kampf has its poetic elements.
So does the rhetoric of Jihad. Perhaps even more so. Arabic is an
intrinsically evocative language. These are poems that start wars.
Anything can be a weapon and what was intended as a weapon can be anything.
I thought that was the point of a flower in the barrel of a gun, or the
famous lyric of the Beatles:
Happiness (is a warm gun)
Bang Bang Shoot Shoot
Happiness (is a warm gun, momma)
Bang Bang Shoot Shoot
Best
Simon
On 13/12/2010 07:25, "Paul Hertz" <ignotus@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jared,
>
> Let me see if I understand. Psalm 137 ("By the waters of Babylon we
> sat down and wept"), a beautiful poem of longing and exile, which ends:
>
> "Oh daughter of Babylon, you devastator!
> Happy shall he be who requites you
> with what you have done to us!
> Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against
> the rock!"
>
> would evidently be a "lower" form of art, since it clearly seeks to
> draw on the passions of the people to whom it is addressed and ends
> with what looks pretty unequivocally like a call to infanticide.
>
> You say that a poem has never started a war. If starting a war is
> matter of pulling triggers (or notching arrows, or dropping bombs) I
> suppose a poem never did this. A poem also never made lunch. But
> poetry and all other art is formed by the society in which it arises.
> Poems and language propagate the values of the cultures that produce them.
>
> If the Iliad glories in war, does it not then also have a
> responsibility in continuing wars? It may not immediately incite its
> listeners to take up arms, but it certainly propagates in them the
> core beliefs of a society, including the notion that war is heroic. We
> could well hold it guilty of starting many wars, just through
> propagating that one great lie "war is heroic."
>
> It is only our distance from the culture from which the Iliad sprang
> that allows us to consider it dispassionately, as what I suppose you
> may mean by "higher" art. Otherwise, we'd hear it as part of our own
> education as warriors or as mothers and wives of warriors. It is a
> great poem not because it is not calculated to incite the passions and
> lead people in a particular direction, but for the grandeur and scope
> of the language through which it does that very thing.
>
> Perhaps you conceive of "lower" poetry as that which is specifically
> intended as an instrument to incite, rather like a military march or a
> patriotic painting. Well, certainly there is a lot of "official" art
> that is truly bad, but I contend that that there is also plenty of
> great art that does incite, and quite consciously. So yes, perhaps a
> poem never started a war, but some poems keep war going. And
> occasionally a poem pays for lunch, in the style of Cyrano de Bergerac.
>
> The notion that it is desirable that a poem might "lie beyond such
concerns"
> as inciting passion or action is itself a cultural attitude, and not
> something inherent in poetry as practiced through the ages. You may
> prefer poems that reflect that attitude or allow you to practice it,
> but that does not mean there is one cultural stream of "true" or
> "high" art producing dispassionate poetry and another of "low" or "false"
art ruled by passion.
>
> Perhaps I misconstrue what you mean by these dichotomies of true/false
> or high/low, but in any case they strike me as implying a value
> judgment that I don't believe I share. I rather think I prefer poems
> that attempt to sway me. I enjoy being swayed, all the more if the
> workings of poetic language do so with a subtlety I can only decipher
after the swaying.
>
> There are only choices about how to use language, not choices about
> its outcomes. By its very refusal to take sides, a dispassionate poem
> may be complicit in social evils--or it may open the way to settle a
> dispute. We may choose to use language passionately or
> dispassionately, to express our desire for peace, for war, for
> quietude or for lunch. We have done so for ages. There are no guarantees
that language will have the effect we desire.
> It's that malleable. For better or worse, we ourselves are that malleable.
> We make our choices and hope for the best.
>
> best regards,
>
> -- Paul
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Jared Smith <smithjrw@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> I would agree with most of what you say, and hope that you have not
>> labeled me as one who would claim that poetry and art are "Innocent."
>> Indeed, they are not. In speaking of true of false art, I meant to
>> speak of false art as that which is consciously inspired or
>> calculated to incite a particular reaction by drawing upon the
>> passions of a people and leading them in a chosen direction--to war
>> or to peace or wherever. Perhaps rather than calling that a false
>> art, I would have been clearer if I had called it a "lower" art or
>> poetry. A "higher" art of poetry, or as I unfortunately termed it, a
"true" poetry would be that which is as you say "not innocent"
>> and not guilty, but partakes from all that is about us and brings all
>> that it can perceive to bear on its experience. It is not innocent
>> nor guilty, but lies outside and beyond such concerns.
>>
>> I think that we are in agreement on that, and that it is only the
>> short responses one is generally allowed in email discussions that
>> may have confused that issue--at least that my short response may have
confused it.
>>
>> What I was trying to address in Ramon's email, however, was that
>> neither art nor poetry start wars--and in fact, I believe they guard
>> against wars because of their inclusion and giving voice to the
>> feelings and passions of the people who create them within the
>> society. I might simply have said in response to Ramon that Poetry
>> is very powerful. But if one thinks it causes wars, one is greatly
>> overestimating of misunderstanding that power. I challenge anyone to
name a war that was started by a poem.
>>
>> Jared
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/7/2010 3:39 PM, Paul Hertz wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry for the late entry, but I can't let this go unchallenged.
>>>
>>> Ramon Guardans said: "science and poetry are also indispensable
>>> components of all massacres, wars and monstrosities that the human
>>> group is putting together today and has in the course of history."
>>>
>>> I think this is only to say that culture is not innocent. If it
>>> pretends to
>>>
>>> *represent* all of human experience--and it does--then it seems to
>>> me that it must *partake* of all human experience, too.
>>>
>>> And how can we ascribe innocence to poetry, art, science or any
>>> other cultural manifestation we create if we cannot ascribe it to
>>> ourselves? I put it to you that no person is innocent: however much
>>> we attach the symbology of innocence to babies, women, clouds,
>>> souls, poetry or painting, each symbol and each reality remains
>>> stubbornly a part of society as a whole.
>>> There is no innocence apart. There are choices that lead to peace
>>> and dialog and there are choices that lead to lies and degradation,
>>> but once we claim our place in human society there are no choices
>>> that lead to innocence, any
>>>
>>> more than there are social movements that will take us home to utopia.
>>> There
>>> are only choices that will improve our collective lives or make them
>>> worse,
>>>
>>> and art may lie in helping us to distinguish them.
>>>
>>> Art is stained with living--or it isn't very good art.
>>>
>>> I imagine that Ernesto Cardenal spoke in this spirit when he
>>> declared that the poet "defends the people through language." Not
>>> because he offered innocence in his poems, but because he was ready
>>> to commit to living his choices through his words.
>>>
>>> And this undoubtedly means that art sometimes offers bad choices,
>>> aesthetics of death, celebrations of infamy. I have only to
>>> contemplate the several poetic traditions Ramon Menendez-Pidal
>>> gathered in his *Flor Nueva de Romances Viejas*, a wonderful
>>> anthology of medieval romances from Spain, to
>>>
>>> realize that there is great art coming out of bitter conflict, and
>>> taking sides in such a way that the hero among the Mozarabes may be
>>> the villain among the Christians, and vice-versa. You may say these
>>> poems are only innocent tales--as though history in any form could
>>> be innocent--but may I suggest that they are both high art and
>>> poisoned by murderous, fratricidal war? They may not stir blood to anger
now, but I'd wager once they did.
>>>
>>> No, you won't get away with claiming some special innocence for art,
>>> especially if it requires you make distinctions between false and
>>> true art.
>>>
>>> There is art that reaches out to us, as you say, but there is also
>>> art that
>>>
>>> intends to stir our rage. Trying to cage it in a "true/false"
>>> dichotomy will not suffice. It is language itself, the very material
>>> of which both your true and false poetry are made, that bears the
>>> stain. This holds, too, of other arts, though they do no operate
>>> with words. The compromise with communication is the compromise to
>>> be misunderstood, to be wrong, and to even to commit criminal acts.
>>> Art is many things, but it is not innocent.
>>> I
>>>
>>> dare say the same of science.
>>>
>>> Now, if you ask me whether I believe that artists and musicians and
>>> poets are generally striving for peace and understanding--if you ask
>>> me whether I
>>>
>>> believe that culture offers a pathway for human beings to learn to
>>> live together--well, I will answer with a resounding YES. But is not
>>> at all the same as ascribing innocence to art.
>>>
>>> I think Ramon is spot on when he says that science and poetry are
>>> compromised not only with those aspects of culture that we hold to
>>> be positive, but with the negative as well. That is certainly how I
>>> read what he wrote. I really don't think we can study or perform art
>>> or science in all their depth and breadth without that realization.
>>> Without that realization,
>>>
>>> our choices of what we believe science and art should do into the
>>> future cannot be made as they must be made--with eyes open.
>>>
>>> My apologies to the apologists of innocence if I give offense, but,
>>> worthy people, you are mistaken if you think art or science are
innocent.
>>>
>>> best regards,
>>>
>>> -- Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Jared Smith<smithjrw@comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ramon,
>>>>
>>>> Science may take part in the formation of warfare, as for example
>>>> in the creation of some of Leonardo's machines of war. But the
>>>> scientific process itself has never driven war. And certainly
>>>> poetry in its true definition, which includes communication of full
>>>> thought and not just passionate egotism, has NEVER driven war.
>>>> U.S. Poet Laureate Ted Kooser has said that the foremost purpose of
>>>> poetry is to communicate with people--and I would add that it is to
>>>> communicate in ways that are outside our limited commercial
>>>> language. Probably 98% of the words we say each day equate to
>>>> "what can I buy from you?" or "What will you trade me for...?"
>>>> Poetry takes the vastness beyond those words, yet still contained
>>>> within our language, and uses them to explore other issues that we
>>>> perhaps feel more deeply though we don't discuss them.
>>>>
>>>> False poetry--rhetoric/oratory--may be used to drive armies and
>>>> false ideas. We must as a culture understand, however, that there
>>>> is a difference between false poetry --often passion or hate-driven
>>>> egotism--and real poetry that reaches out to that which is larger.
>>>> We make that distinction in philosophy and have since Plato
>>>> discussed rhetoricians and philosophers as being two different
>>>> types of people with different goals.
>>>>
>>>> Art--certainly poetic art--is a transcendent and inclusive process
>>>> conducted within oneself and perhaps later shared with others. It
>>>> does not lead to war.
>>>>
>>>> Jared
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/2/2010 12:52 AM, ramon guardans wrote:
>>>>
>>>> One point that sould be noted is that as much as science and
>>>> poetry
>>>>> interact and overlap in the production of beauty and positive
>>>>> social constructions
>>>>>
>>>>> science and poetry are also indispensable components of all
>>>>> massacres, wars and monstrosities that the human group is putting
>>>>> together today and has in the course of history
>>>>>
>>>>> the construction of spurious certitudes, nationalism and
>>>>> fanaticism rely on wine and poetry, but you can substitute the
>>>>> wine by other substances, the need-use of science and technology
>>>>> to amplify killing power does not need to be ellaborated
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there anything practical that can be said or done about this
>>>>> relation?, One thing i would say is that in the future it might be
>>>>> wise to pay more attention to the unpoetic and very effective
>>>>> stategies of ignorance technology, te deliberate and industrial
>>>>> production of unknowledge, confusion and fear
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently and in history much work, poetic and scientific has
>>>>> been devoted to produce and difuse ignorance, prejudice and
>>>>> confusion, this could be adressed and one way to proceed is by
>>>>> including forms of quality control , sort of cheks on the validity
>>>>> and logic of statements and propositions, science and poetry have
>>>>> proven to be able to do that
>>>>>
>>>>> cordially
>>>>> r
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Wed, 12/1/10, Jared Smith<smithjrw@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Jared Smith<smithjrw@comcast.net>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art,
>>>>>> POETRY
>>>>>> To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 4:32 PM Hi, Vitor and other
>>>>>> Yasminers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What a fascinating conversation this is developing into! Your
>>>>>> contribution here, Vitor, opens up the whole question of thought
>>>>>> processes in poetry and the languages that represent those
>>>>>> processes. Of course, on the most basic surface level, some of
>>>>>> us may be most comfortable conversing in Italian or French or
>>>>>> English or any other language native to a particular country or
>>>>>> region. At a somewhat deeper level, we may be more comfortable
>>>>>> conversing in light beams or music or mathematical symbols All
>>>>>> of these symbols are, of course, just that: symbols that stand
>>>>>> for the concrete statements we make or the meditations we set out
>>>>>> upon. And David Morley's "Mathematics of Light" is a wonderful
>>>>>> example of how one set of symbols may be merged within another.
>>>>>> In our time, especially, one can do this with images that are
>>>>>> complete pictures, as with digital poems and their interfaces, as
>>>>>> Jason Nelson has just discussed in his post. The shadows of
>>>>>> Plato's cave wall take on depth and become more interactive. And
>>>>>> perhaps Knowledge
>>>>>> (science) is allowed the chance to become closer to Art than to
>>>>>> Craft--fact and not pretense?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the empty page, in any case, is what all these languages line
>>>>>> their symbols down on. I wonder if there is value to thinking of
>>>>>> the empty page as a scaffolding which symbols of whatever sort
>>>>>> that compose a unity may be laid down. The symbols are
>>>>>> statements. The scaffolding is the blank space across which
>>>>>> those symbols play out--giving them nonlinear depth and meaning
>>>>>> because we don't know how deep that space is or what its shape
>>>>>> is. Nor does the mind try to measure the size of the paper or
>>>>>> its infinitude. The mind does something else: it experiences the
>>>>>> unknown space and makes of it what it will. It turns the finite
>>>>>> into one or more possible definitions or discoveries of the
>>>>>> infinite. And the poet, then, whether in light rays or
>>>>>> mathematics or the contemplation of immigrants learns to convey
>>>>>> that new possibility and discovery to others in a valid form.
>>>>>> The poem happens, whatever language, within the mind, drawing
>>>>>> from the structure on the page or visible through other symbols.
>>>>>> It provides a setting for the symbols/data, and a tool for using
>>>>>> them to create.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Best,
>>>>>> Jared Smith
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/30/2010 1:41 AM, Vítor Reia-Baptista wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Everybody.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My name is Vítor Reia-Baptista and I work at the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> University of Algarve, in South Portugal, where we have a
>>>>>> research centre on Arts and Communication - CIAC (Centro de
>>>>>> Investigação em Artes e Comunicação)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.ciac.pt/en/index.php
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do not have anu direct answer to Roger questions and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know if they exist in general, but I'm certain that
>>>>>> they apply to many of our human kind situations: we do need
>>>>>> poetry, in different shapes and different states of mind and
>>>>>> materia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, here are some starting contributes for a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> discussion maybe also around the way Teknè makes Poietike
>>>>>> possible, through knowledge (Science) made visible by Art crafts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave Morley, author of the poem «Mathematics of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Light»
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/mathematics-of-light
>>>>>> .htm
>>>>>>>> ;
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> «Think of an empty page as open space. It possesses
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> no dimension. Human time
>>>>>>
>>>>>> makes no claim. Everything is possible, at this point
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> endlessly possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anything can grow in it. Anybody, real or imaginary,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> can travel there, stay
>>>>>>
>>>>>> put, or move on. There is no constraint, except the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> honesty of the writer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and the scope of imagination-qualities with which we
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> are born and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> characteristics that we can develop. Writers are born
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and made.»
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This contribute may be found in the site of the Centre
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for Poetry and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Science at the University of Liverpool:
>>>>>>> <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/index.htm>;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From another perspective the Poetry Foudation claims
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that there are (at
>>>>>>
>>>>>> least) 1875 Poems about Arts& Sciences, such as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the «Equation for my
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Children» by Wilmer Mills:
>>>>>>> http://atirateaomar.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best wishes.
>>>>>>> Vítor Reia
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Citando roger malina<rmalina@alum.mit.edu>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Opening Statement by YASMIN co moderator Roger
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Malina
>>>>>>> Poetry in the Asylum:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There have been times in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> my life when I have been a voracious reader,
>>>>>>> and sometime writer, of poetry. Sometimes this state is
>>>>>>> triggered by jet lag. At those times I consume and generate
>>>>>>> poetry as if my very survival depended on it. At other times I
>>>>>>> am cold to poetry.
>>>>>>> My Czech grandparents were both musicians and music teachers and
>>>>>>> they raised my father in a home where music was almost a basic
>>>>>>> food. He used to listen to music as he carried out his
>>>>>>> scientific research in the 30s, and later as he created his
>>>>>>> kinetic art works in the 1950s; his seminal work ³Jazz²:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (http://www.olats.org/pionniers/malina/bdd/oeuvre.php?oi=1201)
>>>>>>>> is a visual poem linking sound and image. It was
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> during this time that
>>>>>>> he was at personal risk, pursued by the US McCarthy staffers and
>>>>>>> the US FBI. Then suddenly in his 50s, after his political
>>>>>>> problems were over, he became oblivious to music and painted in
>>>>>>> silence for the rest of his life. Is this a coincidence or a
>>>>>>> connection? What is it that makes poetry vital for survival? We
>>>>>>> live in a dangerous age, do we need a new poetics?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In recent decades, much of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the art connected to science and new
>>>>>>> technologies has been non contemplative, often loud and
>>>>>>> insistent, un-poetical. But other artists, and poets, as they
>>>>>>> have explored these new terrains have developed new poetic
>>>>>>> impulses that have created new senses of the special and even
>>>>>>> the sacred.
>>>>>>> Examples come to mind that
>>>>>>> I would put in the category of poetic arts would
>>>>>>> include:
>>>>>>> Jeffrey Shaw¹s ³Legible City :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61l7Y4MS4aU
>>>>>>>> Char Davies ³Ephemere²:
>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa_aiw7yhpI
>>>>>>>> David Rokeby¹s ³Very Nervous System² :
>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrawKucSSRw
>>>>>>>> Mark Hansen and Ben Rubin¹s Listening post:
>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD36IajCz6A
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The invited respondents in this discussion have a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> variety of
>>>>>>> approaches to poetry that connects to the sciences and
>>>>>>> technology of our age.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When historian Robert
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ilbert asked Samuel Bordreuil and I to set up
>>>>>>> the Art-Science wing of IMERA:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/organisation/101.html
>>>>>>>> he named it : ASIL, or the French word for Asylum,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with the acronym
>>>>>>> Arts-Sciences-Instrumentations-Language . Indeed the connections
>>>>>>> between the arts, sciences and technology must also be mediated
>>>>>>> by languages both image and word, and in particular by art forms
>>>>>>> that use language as their raw material. We have recently issued
>>>>>>> a new call for residency proposals :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/becoming-a-fellow/applications
>>>>>>>> .html and we welcome proposals from poets that need to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> collaborate with
>>>>>>> scientists or research engineers to achieve their artistic
>>>>>>> vision. We need poetry in the Asylum.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ten years ago poet Tim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peterson, a participant in this discussion,
>>>>>>> led a Leonardo Electronic Almanac project around the new poetics
>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>> New Media Poetry and Poetics
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From Concrete to Codework: Praxis in Networked
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and Programmable Media
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.leoalmanac.org/journal/vol_14/lea_v14_n05-06/tpeterso
>>>>>>> n.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and more recently in the Leonardo Book Series at
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MIT Press we published
>>>>>>> New Media Poetics: edited by Adalaide Morris and Thomas Swiss
>>>>>>> http://leonardo.info/isast/leobooks/books/swissmorris.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> which documents some of the current work in new
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> media poetics.
>>>>>>> In this YASMIN discussion we seek to discuss all the many ways
>>>>>>> that poetry connects to the new sciences and the new
>>>>>>> technologies that underpin so many of the new ways that we are
>>>>>>> becoming human.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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to.
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>>
>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>>
>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to.
>> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
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>> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked.
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>
>
Best
Simon
simon@littlepig.org.uk
http://www.littlepig.org.uk/
s.biggs@eca.ac.uk
http://www.elmcip.net/
http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
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