2010/12/1 ramon guardans <kkursk@yahoo.com>
> One point that sould be noted is that as much as science and poetry
> interact and overlap in the production of beauty and positive social
> constructions
>
> science and poetry are also indispensable components of all massacres, wars
> and monstrosities that the human group is putting together today and has in
> the course of history
>
> the construction of spurious certitudes, nationalism and fanaticism rely
> on wine and poetry, but you can substitute the wine by other substances,
> the need-use of science and technology to amplify killing power does not
> need to be ellaborated
>
> Is there anything practical that can be said or done about this relation?,
> One thing i would say is that in the future it might be wise to pay more
> attention to the unpoetic and very effective stategies of ignorance
> technology, te deliberate and industrial production of unknowledge,
> confusion and fear
>
> Currently and in history much work, poetic and scientific has been devoted
> to produce and difuse ignorance, prejudice and confusion, this could be
> adressed and one way to proceed is by including forms of quality control ,
> sort of cheks on the validity and logic of statements and propositions,
> science and poetry have proven to be able to do that
>
> cordially
> r
>
> --- On Wed, 12/1/10, Jared Smith <smithjrw@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > From: Jared Smith <smithjrw@comcast.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
> > To: yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> > Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 4:32 PM
> > Hi, Vitor and other Yasminers,
> >
> > What a fascinating conversation this is developing
> > into! Your contribution here, Vitor, opens up the
> > whole question of thought processes in poetry and the
> > languages that represent those processes. Of course,
> > on the most basic surface level, some of us may be most
> > comfortable conversing in Italian or French or English or
> > any other language native to a particular country or
> > region. At a somewhat deeper level, we may be more
> > comfortable conversing in light beams or music or
> > mathematical symbols All of these symbols are, of
> > course, just that: symbols that stand for the concrete
> > statements we make or the meditations we set out upon.
> > And David Morley's "Mathematics of Light" is a wonderful
> > example of how one set of symbols may be merged within
> > another. In our time, especially, one can do this with
> > images that are complete pictures, as with digital poems and
> > their interfaces, as Jason Nelson has just discussed in his
> > post. The shadows of Plato's cave wall take on depth
> > and become more interactive. And perhaps Knowledge
> > (science) is allowed the chance to become closer to Art than
> > to Craft--fact and not pretense?
> >
> > But the empty page, in any case, is what all these
> > languages line their symbols down on. I wonder if
> > there is value to thinking of the empty page as a
> > scaffolding which symbols of whatever sort that compose a
> > unity may be laid down. The symbols are
> > statements. The scaffolding is the blank space across
> > which those symbols play out--giving them nonlinear depth
> > and meaning because we don't know how deep that space is or
> > what its shape is. Nor does the mind try to measure
> > the size of the paper or its infinitude. The mind does
> > something else: it experiences the unknown space and makes
> > of it what it will. It turns the finite into one or
> > more possible definitions or discoveries of the
> > infinite. And the poet, then, whether in light rays or
> > mathematics or the contemplation of immigrants learns to
> > convey that new possibility and discovery to others in
> > a valid form. The poem happens, whatever language,
> > within the mind, drawing from the structure on the page or
> > visible through other symbols. It provides a setting
> > for the symbols/data, and a tool for using them to create.
> >
> > My Best,
> > Jared Smith
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/30/2010 1:41 AM, Vítor Reia-Baptista wrote:
> > > Hi Everybody.
> > >
> > > My name is Vítor Reia-Baptista and I work at the
> > University of Algarve, in South Portugal, where we have a
> > research centre on Arts and Communication - CIAC (Centro de
> > Investigação em Artes e Comunicação)
> > > http://www.ciac.pt/en/index.php
> > >
> > > I do not have anu direct answer to Roger questions and
> > I don't know if they exist in general, but I'm certain that
> > they apply to many of our human kind situations: we do need
> > poetry, in different shapes and different states of mind and
> > materia.
> > >
> > > So, here are some starting contributes for a
> > discussion maybe also around the way Teknè makes Poietike
> > possible, through knowledge (Science) made visible by Art
> > crafts?
> > >
> > > Dave Morley, author of the poem «Mathematics of
> > Light»
> > > <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/mathematics-of-light.htm
> >;
> > > wrote:
> > > «Think of an empty page as open space. It possesses
> > no dimension. Human time
> > > makes no claim. Everything is possible, at this point
> > endlessly possible.
> > > Anything can grow in it. Anybody, real or imaginary,
> > can travel there, stay
> > > put, or move on. There is no constraint, except the
> > honesty of the writer
> > > and the scope of imagination-qualities with which we
> > are born and
> > > characteristics that we can develop. Writers are born
> > and made.»
> > >
> > > This contribute may be found in the site of the Centre
> > for Poetry and
> > > Science at the University of Liverpool:
> > > <http://www.liv.ac.uk/poetryandscience/poems/index.htm>;
> > >
> > > From another perspective the Poetry Foudation claims
> > that there are (at
> > > least) 1875 Poems about Arts & Sciences, such as
> > the «Equation for my
> > > Children» by Wilmer Mills:
> > > http://atirateaomar.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > > Best wishes.
> > > Vítor Reia
> > >
> > > Citando roger malina <rmalina@alum.mit.edu>:
> > >
> > >> Science, Technology, Art, POETRY
> > >> Opening Statement by YASMIN co moderator Roger
> > Malina
> > >>
> > >> Poetry in the Asylum:
> > >>
> > >> There have been times in
> > my life when I have been a voracious reader,
> > >> and sometime writer, of poetry. Sometimes this
> > state is triggered by
> > >> jet lag. At those times I consume and generate
> > poetry as if my very
> > >> survival depended on it. At other times I am cold
> > to poetry.
> > >>
> > >> My Czech grandparents were both musicians and
> > music teachers and they
> > >> raised my father in a home where music was almost
> > a basic food. He
> > >> used to listen to music as he carried out his
> > scientific research in
> > >> the 30s, and later as he created his kinetic art
> > works in the 1950s;
> > >> his seminal work "Jazz":
> > >> (http://www.olats.org/pionniers/malina/bdd/oeuvre.php?oi=1201)
> > >> is a visual poem linking sound and image. It was
> > during this time that
> > >> he was at personal risk, pursued by the US
> > McCarthy staffers and the
> > >> US FBI. Then suddenly in his 50s, after his
> > political problems were
> > >> over, he became oblivious to music and painted in
> > silence for the rest
> > >> of his life. Is this a coincidence or a
> > connection? What is it that
> > >> makes poetry vital for survival? We live in a
> > dangerous age, do we
> > >> need a new poetics?
> > >>
> > >> In recent decades, much of
> > the art connected to science and new
> > >> technologies has been non contemplative, often
> > loud and insistent,
> > >> un-poetical. But other artists, and poets, as they
> > have explored these
> > >> new terrains have developed new poetic impulses
> > that have created new
> > >> senses of the special and even the sacred.
> > Examples come to mind that
> > >> I would put in the category of poetic arts would
> > include:
> > >>
> > >> Jeffrey Shaw's "Legible City :
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61l7Y4MS4aU
> > >> Char Davies "Ephemere": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa_aiw7yhpI
> > >> David Rokeby's "Very Nervous System" :
> > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrawKucSSRw
> > >> Mark Hansen and Ben Rubin's Listening post:
> > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD36IajCz6A
> > >>
> > >> The invited respondents in this discussion have a
> > variety of
> > >> approaches to poetry that connects to the sciences
> > and technology of
> > >> our age.
> > >>
> > >> When historian Robert
> > Ilbert asked Samuel Bordreuil and I to set up
> > >> the Art-Science wing of IMERA:
> > >> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/organisation/101.html
> > >> he named it : ASIL, or the French word for Asylum,
> > with the acronym
> > >> Arts-Sciences-Instrumentations-Language . Indeed
> > the connections
> > >> between the arts, sciences and technology must
> > also be mediated by
> > >> languages both image and word, and in particular
> > by art forms that use
> > >> language as their raw material. We have recently
> > issued a new call for
> > >> residency proposals :
> > >> http://www.imera.fr/index.php/en/becoming-a-fellow/applications.html
> > >> and we welcome proposals from poets that need to
> > collaborate with
> > >> scientists or research engineers to achieve their
> > artistic vision. We
> > >> need poetry in the Asylum.
> > >>
> > >> Ten years ago poet Tim
> > Peterson, a participant in this discussion,
> > >> led a Leonardo Electronic Almanac project around
> > the new poetics :
> > >> New Media Poetry and Poetics
> > >>> From Concrete to Codework: Praxis in Networked
> > and Programmable Media
> > >>
> http://www.leoalmanac.org/journal/vol_14/lea_v14_n05-06/tpeterson.html
> > >> and more recently in the Leonardo Book Series at
> > MIT Press we published
> > >> New Media Poetics: edited by Adalaide Morris and
> > Thomas Swiss
> > >> http://leonardo.info/isast/leobooks/books/swissmorris.html
> > >> which documents some of the current work in new
> > media poetics.
> > >>
> > >> In this YASMIN discussion we seek to discuss all
> > the many ways that
> > >> poetry connects to the new sciences and the new
> > technologies that
> > >> underpin so many of the new ways that we are
> > becoming human.
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
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