Sunday, February 7, 2010

[Yasmin_discussions] Fwd: The End of Simulation.

Luigi (girao)

i have a slightly difference angle on your point about
the 'end of simulation"

i raised in an earlier post that the brain itself creates
"emulations" ( that are of course a system of representation)
of the world by creating perceptions based
on sensory inputs

stephane dumas pointed out ( see his email below) that this
connects with Varela and his groups work on "enaction"
with which I agree

there has been a lot of advances both in the science of
consciousness and in neurobiology in the 30 years since
Varela developed his ideas= the work on mirror neurons
and phantom limbs, comes to mind J P Changeux in his talks
at the marseille talked of the brain as a projection creation system which
interacts with the outer world via the senses, in cybernetic like cycles
that allow the brain to settle on consistent or consensual realities

it is interesting to think of simulations, made as artefacts by human beings
both in art and science, as ways that the brain acts on the world to help
develop these concensual/consistent/stable percepts

yes maybe the end of simulation, or a total simulation, but a
neurobiological take
on your "life is art, art is life" motto


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: luis girao <>

Dear List,

I, in advance, apologize to all of probably commenting on something that
might not be of your interest or that was already subject to discussion in
previous posts. But I am sure you will forgive me by understanding that I
just recently (today) joining the discussion. Thank you for having me!

Concerning Simulation: I am extremely interested on how and when one can no
longer refer to it. Where is the threshold to be crossed to definitely blur
and merge concepts such as real, imaginary, representation, simulation,...
Even arguing in favor of *total simulation*, - in which the whole is a
product of projective representations both at a collective and individual
level-, even then, what can one do to collectively 'cross mirrors'?

This approach originates from the point view of the need of becoming a
socially active artistic participant, extending "Life is Art, Art is Life"

here is stephane's point

hi Roger

Let me briefly catch up with these dense exchanges about representation,
simulation and emulation, by reacting to what you wrote at the end of your
last post : the brain would offer an example of emulation in the way it
creates a model of the world from sensory inputs from outside and inside the

As far as I know, this is the proccess that Varella and his collegues
analyzed and named "enaction". They were very suspicious about the term
"representation" as beeing based on the conception of reality as existing a
priori, and of counscioussness as a process of mirroring this a priori
reality. They developed their concept of enaction as refering to a coupling
of the "brain" with the "reality" through sensory inputs, stressing the
importance of awareness, not as a mirroring process, but as the creation of
a "world" which is neither totally in the brain itself nor in an a priori
reality, but which belongs to both.

Of course, their researches would have to be analysed more in depth than
what I just sketched, as well as the direct and undirect influences they had
on recent conceptions of counscioussness, as, for instance,
neuroconstructivism (see, among many other things, V. Ramachandran's
research about the fantom limb syndrom). In my opinion, their concept of
enactionstrongly questions the concept of representation and its sub
categories of simulation and emulation.


Stéphane Dumas
to a point where it does no longer make sense to distinguish between them...
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