Computer simulations as Active Extended Mind of emulating brains? (Clark and Chalmers)
Jennifer
________________________________
From: stedumas <stedumas@free.fr>
To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 12:23:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] simulation and emulation
hi Roger
Let me briefly catch up with these dense exchanges about representation, simulation and emulation, by reacting to what you wrote at the end of your last post : the brain would offer an example of emulation in the way it creates a model of the world from sensory inputs from outside and inside the body.
As far as I know, this is the proccess that Varella and his collegues analyzed and named "enaction". They were very suspicious about the term "representation" as beeing based on the conception of reality as existing a priori, and of counscioussness as a process of mirroring this a priori reality. They developed their concept of enaction as refering to a coupling of the "brain" with the "reality" through sensory inputs, stressing the importance of awareness, not as a mirroring process, but as the creation of a "world" which is neither totally in the brain itself nor in an a priori reality, but which belongs to both.
Of course, their researches would have to be analysed more in depth than what I just sketched, as well as the direct and undirect influences they had on recent conceptions of counscioussness, as, for instance, neuroconstructivism (see, among many other things, V. Ramachandran's research about the fantom limb syndrom). In my opinion, their concept of enaction strongly questions the concept of representation and its sub categories of simulation and emulation.
Best
Stéphane Dumas
Le 4 févr. 10 à 09:38, roger malina a écrit :
> "
> RB et al
>
> i agree that my three categories are not very rigorous=i was hoping
> that a yasminer more familiar with the literature could help
>
> my three categories of simulation, emulation and representation
> are of course all systems of representation
>
> In the distinction i tried to make a virtual world is an emulation not a
> simulation=second life for instance does not encode any physics to create
> behaviours,
> and special effects in films ( for instance to emulate water phenomena) also
> do not encode physical models
>
> there are some virtual world games that do encode variable gravity, i dont
> know of any that allow you to change the speed of light or other physical
> constants
>
> Louis Bec mentioned the ability to adjust parameters in the model that
> is used in a simulation, which then allows projection/prediction
>
> i agree that the process that leads to the result is the key difference
> between simulation,emulation and representation=but i hope someone
> has better terms
>
> another thought= at the art and darwin symposium in marseille there was
> much discussion about how the brain takes sensory data to create a
> mental model that is coherent and predictive of the world outside
> and inside the body= the internal brain process
> is also a kind of emulation ( not simulation in my vocabulary)
>
> roger
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: r buiani <rbuiani@gmail.com <lt%3Brbuiani@gmail.com>>
> Date: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 9:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] simulation vs emulation vs representation
> To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS
> <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr<lt%3Byasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> >
>
>
>
> 1) general definitions tend to gloss over the distinctions between various
> types of simulations or simulated phenomena (there is a great difference
> between a "simulation" used to communicate or to understand a
> specific
> phenomenon (e.g. a microscopic organism, a coded piece of information) and
> "simulation" that acts as a metonymic, or metaphoric device (a
> brand, or a
> virtual world)
>
>
> 2) we tend to focus on the product, and not in the processes that lead to
> such product (e.g. the process that leads to a --or different types of--
> visualization products as opposed to the process that leads to simulation in
> everyday life or in film)
> 3) we tend to define simulation a linear progression and an ubiquitous
> phenomenon (that is, as an avoidable process that involves the entire sphere
> of knowledge)
>
>
> rb
> RB<div><br></div><div>In the distinction i tried to
> make a virtual world is=
> an emulation not a simulation=3D</div><div>second life for
> instance does n=
> ot encode any physics to create
> behaviours</div><div><br></div><div>there a=
> re some virtual world games that do encode variable gravity, i dont
> know</d=
> iv>
> <div>of any that allow you to change the speed of light or other
> physical c=
> onstants</div><div><br></div><div>i agree that
> the process that leads to th=
> e result is the key difference</div><div>between
> simulation,emulation and r=
> epresentation</div>
> <div><br></div><div>roger<br><br><div
> class=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forw=
> arded message ----------<br>From: <b
> class=3D"gmail_sendername">r buiani</b=
> > <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:
> rbuiani@gmail.com">rbuiani@gmail.=
> com</a>&gt;</span><br>
> Date: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 9:53 PM<br>Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions]
> simu=
> lation vs emulation vs representation<br>To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS
> &lt;<a href=
> =3D"mailto:yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> ">yasmin_discussions@estia.=
> media.uoa.gr</a>&gt;<br>
> <br><br>
> <br>
> 1) general definitions tend to gloss over the distinctions between various =
> types of simulations or simulated phenomena (there is a great difference be=
> tween a &quot;simulation&quot; used to communicate or to understand
> a speci=
> fic phenomenon (e.g. a microscopic organism, a coded piece of information) =
> and &quot;simulation&quot; that acts as a metonymic, or metaphoric
> =A0devic=
> e (a brand, or a virtual world)</div>
> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div><div
> class=3D"gmail_quote"><br>
> 2) we tend to focus on the product, and not in the processes that lead to s=
> uch product (e.g. the process that leads to a --or different types of-- vis=
> ualization products as opposed to the process that leads to simulation in e=
> veryday life or in film)<br>
>
> 3) we tend to define simulation a linear progression and an ubiquitous phen=
> omenon (that is, as an avoidable process that involves the entire sphere of=
> knowledge)
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