i am wondering:
how much/what/which human/bio/other parts/capabilities must be present in
a cyborg 'mixture' in order for an organism to be called 'cyborg'?
must the 'parts' be physically adjoining the body or could those also be
remote/distributed?
must a cyborg eventually have a body? or could an evolved (human?) consciousness,
residing (say, 'on the net' or in space/ether) be called a cyborg? (it
is has a human consciousness and some type of energy as 'body parts'
if a (say, a male) cyborg gained (say, a female) artificial sexual
organs would 'it' then be a he/she or an 'it' ?
can an addition alone render a bio-organism be cyborg? any minimal
requirements as of the extent and or physical/virtual properties of the
addition?
are cyborg eligible for Inheritance? (what part of a human is eligible
for Inheritance? is it the body? life itself? the notion of 'self'?)
what if his/her/it's sense-of-self has evolved/changed or removed?
- -
"Simon Biggs" <s.biggs@eca.ac.uk> wrote:
> Which brings us to your point about genius and the jump of creativity.
> Whilst I agree that creativity does not work in straight lines or as a
> coherent progression I do not think there is such a thing as genius. As I
> have already indicated, I have a lot of time for Newton's idea of team-work.
> I regard individuality as a contingent characteristic, preferring the
> Foucauldian notion of the distributed self or Latour's of expanded and
> diffused agency. In these models the individual is regarded as an instance
> of the collective and enabled through that context, drawing on and defined
> by the resources within and without them (there is no notion of an essential
> or irreducible self – the self is more like a construction). In a sense I
> find it difficult to identify what is in and what is out. As such, all our
> activities are more or less distributed and collective in nature. I do not
> see how genius can fit in that model.
Simon - holding a firm grip over a notion such as 'there is no thing
such as genius' simply because it does not fit into your will cause the occasional
appearances of a genius to be disregarded thus we are all forced into
the linear progression of scientific research.
isn't it a pity to give up on our chance to 'jump' just because a model
is too narrow?
- -
best regards,
francis
> Hi Simon, and everybody
>
> Your trail about cyborg flesh and robots' skin seems very interesting
> to me. As I said in a previous post, I think one fruitfull way to
> explore cyborgs is to investigate what kind of body they are. This
> body question is not just a matter of envelope giving a look to more
> or less sophisticated abstract programs. Nor is it the mere mechanics
> allowing a robot to enact the programs it is supposed to perform.
>
> The embodied interface is more than just a thin and smooth
> interchangable skin, like in most 3D simulations. Skin is a surface
> producing images, but it is also part of a body. Its thickness is even
> more important than its surface. I think developing interfaces'
> thickness and even roughness is an important task, parallel to the
> task of making them smooth and fluid for better interaction. This is a
> field where engeneers, programmers and artists meet.
>
> David Cronenberg's vision, in the 1990s, was mindfull. In "Existenz",
> he imagined "bio ports", organic connections between machines and
> bodies. "Naked Lunch" is the story of a writer (William Burroughs) who
> looks for the "black meat" extracted from centipedes from Amazonia.
> There is a strong connection between this drug and his writing. His
> type writer mutates into a beetle. Here, human language, machine and
> animal body ("meat") fuse or mutate into each others.
>
> Beyond the SF aspect, what about "cyborg flesh"?
>
> Best
>
> Stéphane
>
>
> stephane dumas
>
> ESAAD, Paris
> stephanedumas.net (under constr.)
> stedumas@free.fr
>
> Le 27 juil. 09 à 18:16, Simon Biggs a écrit :
>
> > Thanks Alan
> >
> > You are lucky to work in the corridor you do. There is so much
> > history and
> > exciting current work going on there!
> >
> > I have a suspicion that any approach that might interest your
> > colleague
> > would be focused on affect in computing and robotics. As such, I
> > suspect she
> > is as interested in how people perceive the behaviour of robots as
> > she is in
> > the computing and engineering side of the systems involved.
> >
> > Given that the original post in this thread concerned a project to
> > develop
> > some sort of artistic robot focused on digital skin (I think this
> > was the
> > original thread) then it might be she could be interested in looking
> > at how
> > different physical envelopes might be employed on a number of robots
> > and to
> > undertake a study on how people apprehend and react to that.
> >
> > Is this the right sort of direction?
> >
> > If so I can see why a scientist, especially one interested in HCI,
> > would be
> > interested in this. However, to reverse your challenge – how many
> > artists
> > would be interested in this?
> >
> > If I remember correctly you and I have a history with cyborg flesh
> > related
> > things ;)
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
> > Simon Biggs
> > Research Professor
> > edinburgh college of art
> > s.biggs@eca.ac.uk
> > www.eca.ac.uk
> > www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
> >
> > simon@littlepig.org.uk
> > www.littlepig.org.uk
> > AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Alan Blackwell <afb21@cam.ac.uk>
> > Reply-To: <Alan.Blackwell@cl.cam.ac.uk>, YASMIN DISCUSSIONS
> > <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> > Date: 27 Jul 2009 15:40:13 +0100
> > To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> > Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] cyborgs skin and programmers
> >
> >
> > I've enjoyed Ernest and Simon's contributions, and wondered, as I read
> > them, just how many readers of this list do have sufficient coding
> > expertise to undertake a project on this scale?
> >
> > So that got me to wondering - there are many skilled programmers in
> > the
> > world - they just don't read this list. How do we get them engaged in
> > projects like this?
> >
> > In fact, there is a skilled robot programmer just down the hall from
> > me,
> > who already works on programming facial expressions for robots. But
> > she
> > doesn't read this list. Why not? Because I don't think she is
> > interested in
> > the issues that this list discusses.
> >
> > So here is an interesting experiment/challenge ...
> >
> > Is there anyone on the list who thinks they could present this
> > project to
> > my student in a way that would make her interested in working on it? I
> > would be happy to pass on a proposal like that under controlled
> > circumstances, in order to assess the way she responds to it. I
> > think that
> > the nature of her response might well cast light on the original
> > questioner's post.
> >
> > You'd probably want to know a little about her, so here is her web
> > page:
> > http://www.roboticschick.org/
> >
> > Of course, you're more than welcome to contact her directly, and see
> > what
> > happens. My prediction is that she would either ignore the email, or
> > be
> > initially polite followed by a brush-off. If you do want me to
> > provide a
> > slightly more detailed account of her response, I'd be happy to
> > collect
> > this in the name of research.
> >
> > Incidentally, she's organising a research workshop next month that
> > might be
> > of interest: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/conference/drd09/
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Alan
> >
> > On Jul 27 2009, Ernest Edmonds wrote:
> >
> >> Hi folks
> >>
> >> Simon has pretty much covered the main points. I might just add
> >> emphasis.
> >>
> >> For background, I have written code as part of my art practice since
> >> the 1960s and run teams doing this kind of stuff all the time. As
> >> Simon points out, there are many diverse skills in programming and no
> >> one person has them all. Real-time control, as in robotics, is just
> >> one specialised branch - but one that many skilled programmers do not
> >> know all that well. As with many aspects of life, creating and
> >> building teams or social environments is as important as finding
> >> technically skilled individuals.
> >>
> >> Its a side issue to this discussion, but the central position of
> >> programming WITHIN some modern art practice is also worthy of
> >> significant attention.
> >>
> >> Ernest Edmonds
> >>
> >> On 25/07/2009, at 12:18 AM, Simon Biggs wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Francis
> >>>
> >>> I sort of agree with you and disagree at the same time. I am an
> >>> artist who
> >>> programs. I regard programming as my primary medium - a form of
> >>> writing. I
> >>> consider computers themselves to be a form of writing, an
> >>> augmentation of
> >>> our capacity to make and interpret meaning. As an artist I put a
> >>> lot of
> >>> value on the capacity of the individual to make a difference, as
> >>> you seem to
> >>> do.
> >>>
> >>> However, I think it is naïve to argue that individuals produce work
> >>> of value
> >>> when isolated from others. Even when we are not aware of it we are
> >>> part of a
> >>> large team of people. Newton stated that to achieve you need to
> >>> stand on the
> >>> shoulders of giants. By this he meant that shifts in understanding
> >>> require a
> >>> lot of prepatory work and the efforts of the many, not the few. He
> >>> recognised his theories depended on those of others.
> >>>
> >>> I have worked with computers since the 1970's and am familiar with
> >>> how some
> >>> of the chip-sets that have shaped the evolution of these systems
> >>> have come
> >>> into being. In the late 1970's important steps were made in VLSI.
> >>> This
> >>> depended on large teams of scientists, engineers and programmers
> >>> creating
> >>> miracles of minutarisation. That sort of working pattern remains
> >>> valid
> >>> today. It is important to remember that creating the technical
> >>> systems that
> >>> allowed for all those transistors to be packed onto such small
> >>> wafers of
> >>> silicon required major scientific and industrial resources. You
> >>> cannot fly
> >>> to the moon with a few mates. As we have seen, it is a massive
> >>> undertaking
> >>> requiring the dedicated human and material resources of nations.
> >>> The same is
> >>> true in the development of other technologies - in the development
> >>> of ideas.
> >>> The invention of the web is (erroneously) laid at the feet of one
> >>> person
> >>> (Berner Lees) but I think he would be the first person to admit
> >>> that he
> >>> couldn't have done it without the trillions of Euro's spent on
> >>> CERN, where
> >>> he worked. He was a product of that whole process. HTTP was too.
> >>> The web is
> >>> a complex system. Robots are also extremely complex systems.
> >>>
> >>> My son, who is 9, has built a few robots, programming them in
> >>> Scratch and
> >>> NXT. He is lucky as his teacher is a professor of computing here in
> >>> Edinburgh and at Stanford. It is terrific to see him develop these
> >>> skills at
> >>> a young age and you do not want to upset his apple-cart, but
> >>> sometimes he
> >>> says it is easy to build robots. Happily, it is not difficult to
> >>> show to him
> >>> the actual complexity of the systems he is only skimming the
> >>> surface of.
> >>> When he recognises just how much is involved he is clearly struck
> >>> with the
> >>> immensity of the task. Happily, he seems up for it. Perhaps I
> >>> should send
> >>> him to Thailand?
> >>>
> >>> In short, the creation of culture (including technology) is an
> >>> activity that
> >>> involves us all.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>> Simon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Simon Biggs
> >>> Research Professor
> >>> edinburgh college of art
> >>> s.biggs@eca.ac.uk
> >>> www.eca.ac.uk
> >>> www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
> >>>
> >>> simon@littlepig.org.uk
> >>> www.littlepig.org.uk
> >>> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Francis Wittenberger <director@culturebase.org>
> >>> Reply-To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> >>> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:40:21 +0700
> >>> To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] cyborgs skin and programmers
> >>>
> >>> hi Simon,
> >>>
> >>> i do not agree that "Programmers good enough to do this kind of
> >>> work are
> >>> thin on the ground"
> >>> - while i am not saying that any 'web designer' is equipped to do
> >>> 'robotics' but there are hundreds of thousand programmers who do
> >>> relative low-level programming and hardware - the problem is that
> >>> there
> >>> is nobody around to define for them WHAT to do - this is what i
> >>> mean by
> >>> 'talkers' - for example on this and other 'new media forums' -
> >>> most if
> >>> not all of those who discuss aren't able to define (to a
> >>> programmer) what
> >>> they are talking about - in fact, i think even they probably have no
> >>> idea what they are talking about .. but their talk seems to enable
> >>> university and other grants, which they spend on living normal, non
> >>> artistic , non creative, middle class lives - that is the problem.
> >>>
> >>> i would suggest to aggregate funds by not granting to those who are
> >>> unable to excel and define what what they are talking about , and
> >>> dedicate the rest of the money to programmers and engineers who
> >>> otherwise end up hungry on the commercial market just because they
> >>> are
> >>> not good 'talkers' enough to get academic grants.
> >>>
> >>> i also do not agree to the concept of "employing a single
> >>> programmer is
> >>> not going to get you very far" - if you take a close look - every
> >>> good
> >>> invention , just as any good software originate from a single mind
> >>> or
> >>> a tiny team. every efficient software was written by one person.
> >>> unlike
> >>> microsoft and alike who make money from deals and speculations
> >>> creating
> >>> ever-in-progress waste they call 'software'.
> >>> compare that to the fact that every chip has tiny and efficient low
> >>> level code that is virtually 100% fully debugged and error free
> >>> and is
> >>> result of work by a single programmer or a tiny team - this is why
> >>> chips
> >>> and CPUs work unlike 'MS office' that is forever "one version
> >>> short of
> >>> being finished"
> >>>
> >>> no computer or phone , or a hard disk would work today without every
> >>> part being close to perfect on its own - the problem lies in the
> >>> inability of programmers to link with artists (or free their own
> >>> mind by
> >>> other means), and the inability of academics and artists to pinpoint
> >>> what type of integrated sub-systems to compile of the parts;
> >>>
> >>> the cases in which things work are the cases where the programmer
> >>> was
> >>> somewhat an artist, or an artist who pushed himself to actually
> >>> code his
> >>> creative thought.
> >>>
> >>> i do agree that more then one person or programmer would be
> >>> required to
> >>> realize a robotic project, but that is also true to publishing a
> >>> book
> >>> for example - normally a small team lead by a visionary is the best
> >>> way.
> >>>
> >>> blindly accepting (or promoting) the idea that many top programmers
> >>> and
> >>> lots of rare resources are a must to make an innovative step - is
> >>> bad
> >>> for us who want to get down to the work and innovate - because every
> >>> time we approach an institute or company they think to themselves
> >>> 'i better
> >>> keep distance from those crazy artists who need millions of dollars
> >>> and
> >>> for their crazy future projects' - while in fact - no more then a
> >>> team
> >>> of 3-4 developers and 1-2 artists are required to prototype ANY
> >>> invention
> >>> and the funds can be as low as really basic requirements - after
> >>> all,
> >>> true artists and creative people do what they do out of urge - and
> >>> not
> >>> for the money :)
> >>>
> >>> - -
> >>>
> >>> regards from thailand,
> >>> francis
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Programmers good enough to do this kind of work are thin on the
> >>>> ground and
> >>>> valuable. I wish we had a few. I mean, we do, but they are all
> >>>> busily
> >>>> employed on well funded research projects and have very little
> >>>> time for more
> >>>> speculative and less well funded work. Those that do are special.
> >>>> We could
> >>>> do with a lot more.
> >>>>
> >>>> I missed your call for a robotics programmer so am not sure what
> >>>> you were
> >>>> looking for, but one observation I would make about development
> >>>> work in this
> >>>> field is that employing a single programmer is not going to get
> >>>> you very
> >>>> far. Robotics is one of the most multi-disciplinary and demanding
> >>>> of
> >>>> technical areas. You need different kinds of programmers for
> >>>> different
> >>>> aspects of the systems (sensing algorithms are very different to
> >>>> those
> >>>> required for motor control). You also need engineers with various
> >>>> skill-sets
> >>>> as well as specialists from other areas (computational
> >>>> linguistics, computer
> >>>> vision, networking, micro-electronics, psychology, etc).
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>>
> >>>> Simon
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Simon Biggs
> >>>> Research Professor
> >>>> edinburgh college of art
> >>>> s.biggs@eca.ac.uk
> >>>> www.eca.ac.uk
> >>>> www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
> >>>>
> >>>> simon@littlepig.org.uk
> >>>> www.littlepig.org.uk
> >>>> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> From: <director@culturebase.org>
> >>>> Reply-To: YASMIN DISCUSSIONS
> >>>> <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:19:15 +0700
> >>>> To: <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
> >>>> Subject: [Yasmin_discussions] cyborgs skin and programmers
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sawasdee
> >>>>
> >>>> re. Digital Skin
> >>>>
> >>>> MAF Thailand (2005)
> >>>> http://culturebase.org/home/thailand/MAF05/viewpage.php?
> >>>> menu_item=A_festival
> >>>> _theme
> >>>> http://culturebase.org/home/thailand/MAF05/viewpage.php?
> >>>> menu_item=B_maf_imag
> >>>> es
> >>>>
> >>>> re. Cyborgs discussion
> >>>>
> >>>> everybody here TALKING about cyborgs but funny enough there were
> >>>> ZERO
> >>>> programmers responding to my call "seeking hardcore programmer"
> >>>>
> >>>> i wonder what is this discussion all about and who is going to do
> >>>> the
> >>>> work;
> >>>>
> >>>> it seems there is not a single hardware engineer or a serious
> >>>> programmer
> >>>> reading this list - or?
> >>>>
> >>>> perhaps the heads of departments, historians, academics,
> >>>> philosophers and
> >>>> talkers should unite with a FUND to hire programmers to do
> >>>> something
> >>>> about all this talk..?
> >>>>
> >>>> hope to hear opinions
> >>>>
> >>>> best regards from thailand
> >>>> francis
> >>>>
> >>>> Re.
> >>>>> Hi Avi
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you for your "Digital Skin".
> >>>>> If Cyberspace is our skin, our body is a Network-body and a flat
> >>>>> screen. If my memory is good, this made you say in a previous post
> >>>>> that we are all cyborgs. At the same time there is a resistance to
> >>>>> that. Actual matter resists to being resumed to digital matter.
> >>>>> Thickness resists to being resumed to 2-dimensions. Physical
> >>>>> bodies
> >>>>> resist to being resumed to images. This resistence interests me.
> >>>>> Things are not just flowing. They also scratch and scream. And
> >>>>> cyborgs
> >>>>> are not just the bright future of a superhumanity !
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the 1970s, Jean-François Lyotard wrote about "The great
> >>>>> ephemeral
> >>>>> skin" in his book Libidinal Economy (Theories of Contemporary
> >>>>> Culture). He was describing it as a carnal extrusion and a
> >>>>> virtual
> >>>>> membrane where the world and our desires would meet. It is
> >>>>> "ephemeral"
> >>>>> because it is in constant mutation. Cyberspace is like this
> >>>>> "great
> >>>>> ephemeral skin", just as language is.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here is an intersting artwork where the human body is scanned,
> >>>>> fragmented and recomposed through machines and softwares which
> >>>>> pervert
> >>>>> the idea of mapping (GoogleEarth)
> >>>>> http://www.locurto-outcault.com/index.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Stéphane
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Le 22 juil. 09 à 07:12, Avi Rosen a écrit :
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Stéphane,
> >>>>>> Very interesting subject "Epithelia, Creative Skins"...
> >>>>>> I made some artworks on this theme: "Digital Skin 2" -
> >>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIO5bnV4i6E
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "The Cyberspace is an extension of the human foot, eye and the
> >>>>>> skin.
> >>>>>> The
> >>>>>> electronic gadgets and the data sphere are Galactic immediate
> >>>>>> Torus
> >>>>>> like
> >>>>>> extension of the human central nervous system, and the stage of
> >>>>>> 'Digital
> >>>>>> Skin' performance. It creates virtual extension of Marcel
> >>>>>> Duchamp's
> >>>>>> unfinished "Big Glass" piece, his voice (manipulated by the
> >>>>>> speed of
> >>>>>> light)on the video explains it. The transparent Cyberbody
> >>>>>> (digital
> >>>>>> mummy) is
> >>>>>> located eternally in cyberspace superposition. The departure and
> >>>>>> arrival are
> >>>>>> compressed to a singularity(Paul Virilio), on the digital skin's
> >>>>>> surface.
> >>>>>> 'Digital Skin 2' video sequence is bricolage of my endless
> >>>>>> virtual
> >>>>>> voyages (
> >>>>>> 'Digital Skin' is another example of such trajectory) in
> >>>>>> cyberspace,
> >>>>>> superimposing personal data on public data base (Goggle Earth and
> >>>>>> Sky). My
> >>>>>> body digital data strips, merged with the Earth and cosmos
> >>>>>> digital
> >>>>>> data
> >>>>>> strips produced by the satellites and telescopes. The
> >>>>>> digitalization
> >>>>>> of the
> >>>>>> universe and our body transformed it to a flat image displayed
> >>>>>> on the
> >>>>>> computer monitor ('Digital Skin').The digital video sequences are
> >>>>>> the MEME
> >>>>>> for further construction \deconstruction of cyber audiovisual
> >>>>>> mutual
> >>>>>> memory
> >>>>>> and universal knowledge."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Avi Rosen,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is the first time I contribute to this discussion. I am a
> >>>>>> visual
> >>>>>> artist and art theorist. I am wrighting a book about skin as a
> >>>>>> creative process ( "Epithelia, Creative Skins", "Les peaux
> >>>>>> créatrices"
> >>>>>> in French).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
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> >>>> enter your
> >>> e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on
> >>> the
> >>> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
> >>>>
> >>>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> >>>> "Set Digest
> >>> Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> >>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> >>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> >>>
> >>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
> >>>
> >>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
> >>> subscribe to. In
> >>> the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
> >>> name, and
> >>> password in the fields found further down the page.
> >>>
> >>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> >>> enter your
> >>> e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on
> >>> the
> >>> unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
> >>>
> >>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> >>> "Set
> >>> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland,
> >>> number SC009201
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> >>> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> >>> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> >>>
> >>> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
> >>>
> >>> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
> >>> subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-
> >>> mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down
> >>> the page.
> >>>
> >>> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> >>> enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
> >>> asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear
> >>> ("options page").
> >>>
> >>> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> >>> "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ______________________________
> >> http://www.ernestedmonds.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> >> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> >> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> >>
> >> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
> >>
> >> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
> >> subscribe to.
> >> In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address,
> >> name,
> >> and password in the fields found further down the page.
> >>
> >> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> >> enter
> >> your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked.
> >> Click on
> >> the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
> >>
> >> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> >> "Set
> >> Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
> >>
> >
> > -- -- Alan Blackwell Computer Laboratory, University of Cambridge
> > http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/afb21/ Phone: +44 (0) 1223 334418
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> > Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> > http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> >
> > Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
> >
> > HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
> > subscribe to. In
> > the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name,
> > and
> > password in the fields found further down the page.
> >
> > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> > enter your
> > e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on
> > the
> > unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
> >
> > HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> > "Set
> > Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
> >
> >
> > Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland,
> > number SC009201
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> > Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> > http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
> >
> > Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
> >
> > HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to
> > subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-
> > mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down
> > the page.
> >
> > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and
> > enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if
> > asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear
> > ("options page").
> >
> > HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the
> > "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yasmin_discussions mailing list
> Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
> http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
>
> Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
>
> HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
_______________________________________________
Yasmin_discussions mailing list
Yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr
http://estia.media.uoa.gr/mailman/listinfo/yasmin_discussions
Yasmin URL: http://www.media.uoa.gr/yasmin
HOW TO SUBSCRIBE: click on the link to the list you wish to subscribe to. In the page that will appear ("info page"), enter e-mail address, name, and password in the fields found further down the page.
HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE: on the info page, scroll all the way down and enter your e-mail address in the last field. Enter password if asked. Click on the unsubscribe button on the page that will appear ("options page").
HOW TO ENABLE / DISABLE DIGEST MODE: in the options page, find the "Set Digest Mode" option and set it to either on or off.
