Please don't stop this discussion. Not at his point, I think that it is right now getting where it actually should.
By the way, I was not the least offended by you, not at all. You did not write this article, it was pretty clear that you have been schocked by at as well, as any of us would :-)
Art, science and politics always come together, this is a fact embedded in human social behaviour. What could be interesting from an art-science perspective may be at the same time dangerous or harmful for society - it is a matter of different rhetoric, different manifestation.
An artist may have an extreme point of view - make an extreme statement, it sounds sooo different when it comes to facts in real life :-))
A scientist on the other hand, may be interested only in the innovation part of an invention and the technical complexity of the new machine. What it is used for is an issue of politics.
I wish I could just blame this issue on you, then we could simply stop this discussion, close our eyes and forget about all war happening around the globe, - hopefully - somewhere else, as far away from whrere "we" live as possible :-))
But I can't, this is not possible, so please, don't stop this discussion, not on my account, anyway :-)
What I was trying to formulate in my previous e-mail, is what kind of society do we want to live in, how can we co-exist with the enviroment without harming it...what kind of art expresses these ideas...how can we involve technology?
I never was a fan of a post-human condition, I still think that humanism is an un-finished business, machines are for me mere artefacts. I can understand why someone may be fascinated by the idea of perfect "human-like" machines, but these ideas are for me so old-fashioned and 'futuristic" that I can only recognize some aesthetic value to them, only as a theme for a retro exhibition.
This is why I was so schocked by this article, and I really wish to thank you for it, what I would probably expect out of this discussion, now that politics are finally emerging as a core discussion topic, is adding a new argument for social thinking that could be a driving force to a better art/society and human/environment co-exisitng debate.
My sincere apologies for not making myself previously clear :-)
All the best,
Veroniki
--- Στις Τετ., 22/07/09, ο/η Murat Germen <muratgermen@sabanciuniv.edu> έγραψε:
Από: Murat Germen <muratgermen@sabanciuniv.edu>
Θέμα: Re: [Yasmin_discussions] Flesh-eating military robots turn vegetarian...
Προς: "Veroniki Korakidou" <vkorakidou@yahoo.gr>, "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS" <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>, "ekmelertan" <eertan@a-m-b-e-r.org>
Ημερομηνία: Τετάρτη, 22 Ιούλιος 2009, 9:34
dear veroniki,
maybe i am misunderstood. i do not see any irony at all in what this article tells us. on the contrary, i sent this article to show how far the notion of "cyborg" can go; actually, i was deeply shocked when i read the content. i am the one who first took the discussion to the military realm in order to remind that life is not all about art, creativity and technology...
by the way, i think no war can be presented as politically correct...
one last point with my apologies. if there is a mechanization dimension in the notion of cyborg, one should also think about equality in employment. there is a very serious economical crisis going on in the world. if cyborgness will add superiority to prospective employees and be subject of priority, is it really fair to become/make half/full cyborgs? what about people who do not have access, and more importantly enough money to be operated to take advantage of the "positive" cyborg features richly listed in previous messages? does the pitiless and money-driven logic prevail here too?
anyway, i think i should stop at this point since it seems this kind of content is not welcome...
sincere regards veroniki, thanks for enabling to avoid misunderstandings:)
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2009/7/22 Veroniki Korakidou <vkorakidou@yahoo.gr>
Dear Murat, Ekmel and all,
I was enjoying this discussion, until I saw this article...does this mean that a non- anthropocentric (save-the-planet) point of view makes war politically correct?
What kind of an emerging rhetoric could possibly so rapidly turn things upside down? It is all right to kill each other, as long as our robots are enviromentally friendly?
Is this what post-humanism is all aboutt?
In Donna Haraway's "Manifesto for Cyborgs", there was a distinct irony about women and the third wave movement, labor turning into services, everyobody wired in their machines, the "new" way of production and consumption.
However, it is a different issue when we speak of art, of science or humanism. I don't actually see any irony in this article.
Maybe I am missing all the fun :-)
All the best
Veroniki
--- Στις Τρίτ., 21/07/09, ο/η Murat Germen <muratgermen@sabanciuniv.edu> έγραψε:
Από: Murat Germen <muratgermen@sabanciuniv.edu>
Θέμα: [Yasmin_discussions] Flesh-eating military robots turn vegetarian...
Προς: "YASMIN DISCUSSIONS" <yasmin_discussions@estia.media.uoa.gr>
Ημερομηνία: Τρίτη, 21 Ιούλιος 2009, 11:37
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jul/20/flesh-eating-robot-vegetarian
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